Choosing a 2014-2015 flu vaccine

[vinucube]

At least for me, it used to be that you went to a hospital every fall and got a flu shot.

Well, it turns out there are not only multiple types of flu shots and methods of administration, they don't quite contain the same stuff.

A table with some of the ingredients is attached to get you started on your research.

 

Source: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm094045.htm

When viral proteins are injected into the body, the immune system learns to recognize them (sensitization) and then on subsequent exposure to the proteins it begins to attack them (elicitation). Unfortunately, any other proteins injected with the vaccine are treated the same way. Once sensitized to the injected protein, future exposure to the protein elicits an attack known as an allergic reaction.

Details and references are here:
http://foodallergycauses.wordpress.com/category/food-allergy-causes/

Intranasal: the risk is injecting live viruses on to your olfactory nerve that is millimeters away from your brain.
There may also be adventitious agents in the vaccine. In other words, unintentional contamination of the vaccine by viruses/bacteria/amoeba etc..

Intradermal: the risk is skin cells/proteins are torn by the needle and injected along with the vaccine.
If your body develops an allergy to these skin proteins, you can develop immune system related skin disorders such as eczema.

Intramuscular:the risk is skin and muscle cells/proteins are torn by the needle and injected along with the vaccine.
If your body develops an allergy to these muscle proteins (one of which is tropomyosin), you can develop immune system disorders as the immune system attacks any tissue containing tropomyosin. Tropomyosin is present in the brain and the intestines. So disorders can include autism, ulcerative colitis, irritable bowel syndrome etc.

and of course seafood allergy.
http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85502-vaccines-allergies-autism-and-autoimmune-disorders/

Polysorbate 80 contains vegetable oils. Depending on the type of vegetable oil used, it can cause the development of allergies to various food items - food allergies.
http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/83698-polysorbate-80-vaccines-and-federal-allergen-regulation/

Ovalbumin in vaccines can cause the development of allergy to egg.

Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen but your body creates a small amount of it too.

Mercury is a well known toxin for which there is no safe amount.

Triton X-100 can damage cells.

HA is the viral protein. The "active ingredient" of a flu vaccine.

Insect proteins when injected into the body can cause the development of allergy to those insect proteins.
Flublok uses cells from the Fall Armyworm, a type of moth larvae. If you develop an allergy to such an insect protein, it may be very difficult to avoid exposure. Avoiding exposure to egg for a patient with egg allergies is difficult enough. How would one avoid exposure to a moth/larvae protein?

Flucelvax contains dog kidney cell proteins. If you develop an allergy to dog kidney cell protein, your immune system might start attacking your own similar kidney cells. An autoimmune kidney disorder will result.
Also the dog kidney cells used to make the vaccine are highly tumorigenic. The cells are supposed to be all killed. But even the tumorigenic DNA residue in the vaccine is considered dangerous and is therefore limited by the FDA to 10 nanogram. Is that low enough?
www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/05/slides/5-4188S1-1draft.PPT

 

Trivalent vaccines contain three viral strains and quadrivalent contain four viral strains.

If you want to perform some probability calculations, flu vaccines work 60% of the time per the CDC.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/effectivenessqa-2013-14.htm

And about 3000-40,000 people are killed by the flu each year.

In the old days before vaccines, you had no choice but to suffer the flu.
Modern medicine gives you a choice, a choice between the devil and the deep sea ... for a fee.

flusum2014.pdf

Edited September 26, 2014 by vinucube

[fiveworlds]

At least for me, it used to be that you went to a hospital every fall and got a flu shot.

 

Passive immunization with human tetanus immune globulin (TIG) shortens the course of tetanus and may lessen its severity. A dose of 500 U may be as effective as larger doses. Therapeutic TIG (3,000-6,000 units as 1 dose) has also been recommended for generalized tetanus.

(Patrick B Hinfey, MD) et al.

 

Immunity to tetanus is rarely maintained after infection because it is far to risky to allow tetanus to run its' course you are injected with Therapeutic TIG to fight the infection for you in place of your cells. This while keeping you healthy prevents you from being able to fight off future cases of tetanus.

Edited September 26, 2014 by fiveworlds

[John Cuthber]

Re. "Polysorbate 80 contains vegetable oils. Depending on the type of vegetable oil used, it can cause the development of allergies to various food items - food allergies.

http://www.sciencefo...gen-regulation/"

You failed, in that thread, to show the validity of the assertion which you now claim that it makes.

 

Re.

"Mercury is a well known toxin for which there is no safe amount."That's a matter of definition- there are certainly well supported data for amounts that are well tolerated and the vaccines don't contain that much.

Re. "Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen but your body creates a small amount of it too."

Yep, and any which was present in a vaccine would react with the protein present- so, by the time it is injected there is no formaldehyde present.

Did you mention it just as a scaremongering tactic?

"Triton X-100 can damage cells."

And water is toxic too.

 

So what?

 

 

Do you realise that any valid case you might have for raising concerns about other materials in vaccines is going to be lost in among all that bull?

Edited September 26, 2014 by John Cuthber

[vinucube]

The FDA wrote to me:
"There is not, as you describe it, an FDA determined safe amount of a potentially allergenic ingredient contained in a vaccine. The FDA reviews vaccine composition in its entirety to ensure the safety and efficacy of the vaccine."


Sanofi Pasteur wrote to me: "There is no specification for residual egg protein (expressed as ovalbumin) for influenza vaccines in the United States,
nor is testing of the final product required for ovalbumin content."

In other words, the FDA has no clue how much allergen protein in a vaccine is safe. There are no studies, no data,
no specifications, and there is no enforcement. Folks, when the FDA claims the allergen proteins present in the vaccines
are safe for your kids, it is pure SPECULATION! I am not speculating, the FDA is speculating. If they did a better job,
we won't have this thread.

John,

Re. Polysorbate 80: If you are not convinced, that does not mean it's not true!

Re.Mercury: If you break a compact fluorescent lamp (CFL) in your house, you are supposed to evacuate the house and ventilate it to avoid breathing the mercury vapors. So why would you inject mercury if you don't have to?
Cobra venom is well tolerated when taken orally. Would you take it with your breakfast cereal?

Fact: Formaldehyde is a carcinogen. Why list formaldehyde as an excipient in the vaccine package insert, if it has disappeared, as you claim?
The body produces formaldehyde, and it has evolved to deal with what it produces. Injected formaldehyde is a different story. What's the harm in choosing a vaccine with no formaldehyde if you can? You like formaldehyde, suit yourself!

Over 4 billion years of evolution, we have been drinking water. We have not been injecting Triton X-100 until a few decades ago?. So what? You could become allergic to the damaged cell's proteins and develop autoimmune disorders.

Sorry you found the material to be bull, I hope others find it more useful.

We are not talking about the ingredients of engine oil. We are injecting this stuff into our kids. Would it hurt to be a little more cautious?

[John Cuthber]

Well, strictly speaking I'm in the wrong country to comment personally on the FDA, but I can vouch for the safety of lots of vaccines because I have had plenty of jabs in my time so when you say

"There are no studies, no data"

You are clearly wrong. I am the data.

 

Also, I guess this story may not have been covered in the US since it happened in the UK but there are tests and studies done.

Here's a recent one concerning a potential Ebola vaccine.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/17/ruth-atkins-first-british-volunteer-injected-trial-ebola-vaccine-oxford

and, of course there have been similar trials for all vaccines.

 

So why do you say things that are simply not true?

"Fact: Formaldehyde is a carcinogen. Why list formaldehyde as an excipient in the vaccine package insert, if it has disappeared, as you claim?"

Because it's one of the things they add, so they have to list it. Would you be happier if they lied? If not, why do you ask the question?

That doesn't mean it's still there.

In particular, for freeze dried vaccines (and I think that's a lot of them) any formaldehyde would be removed along with the water.

Also, "The body produces formaldehyde, and it has evolved to deal with what it produces. Injected formaldehyde is a different story."

Why is it different?

How does the body "Know" where a formaldehyde molecule has come from?

Or is that just some bollocks you invented?

 

"Cobra venom is well tolerated when taken orally. Would you take it with your breakfast cereal?"

I'd need to be very hungry, but I'd recognise it as a potentially valuable source of protein. (N.B- if anyone is thinking of trying this, be aware that it's a rather risky way to check if you have ulcers)

 

" If you break a compact fluorescent lamp (CFL) in your house, you are supposed to evacuate the house and ventilate it to avoid breathing the mercury vapors."

Who supposes that?

Did they know what they were talking about?

 

 

More importantly, why are you ignoring the other side of the equation?

Vaccines save millions of lives.

 

​That is the datum that most people are likely to find useful- yet you miss it out.

Edited September 27, 2014 by John Cuthber

[vinucube]

If you are a data point, so are the millions of kids who have developed food allergies. Why is the data being ignored?
The point is we need data from CONTROLLED studies to set safe limits for allergens in vaccines, which the FDA has never done.

Of course all vaccines go through trials before approval. The problem is they only look for efficacy, antibody titers and note headache,fever, malaise, swelling at injection site etc. No one checks to see if patients are developing a food allergy a month later.
If you are not even looking for a problem, you are not going to find it.

The formaldehyde and other excipients are clearly listed as RESIDUAL amounts. Not the amounts they added.
They add way more. The amount listed are the amounts that are still present in the final product.
Besides, what patients and doctors care about are how much of the excipient is present in the final product not how much was added in some manufacturing step.

The body produces hydrochloric acid. That does not mean you can inject it into your deltoid muscle. The body knows how to handle formaldehyde in the location and quantities it produces. The 100 mcg of formaldehyde injected into your deltoid muscle can sit for 48 hours causing damage there before it gets processed. The amount of acetaminophen your liver can handle depends on how much alcohol you consume. The amount of formaldehyde/mercury your body can handle may depend on what you had for breakfast. One cannot claim that since the body produces formaldehyde, injecting formaldehyde is safe. As Einstein meant, things must be made as simple as possible, no simpler.

Broken CFL handling: The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), no less ...
http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl

"Vaccines save millions of lives." Of course. Why do you think I am researching the flu vaccines? I am trying to find the least harmful one for my family. And I posted the findings in the hope that it may be useful for anyone else going through the same exercise.

[Arete]

Why is the data being ignored?

 

 

Because the scientific method doesn't allow for forming an unsubstantiated conclusion and then subsequently abandoning logic and cherry picking observations to try and "support" an unfounded position.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

We are not going down this road again. Many of these topics have been brought up in other threads, and this cross-pollination brought about by linking to them only serves to fragment the discussion. Further, soapboxing is against the rules.

 

You're done with this subject.