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I was going to drop out of this discussion, but I can't leave it at this: Well, you can compare it if you want. If it is, it's a very peculiar concentration camp, where the "inmates" apparently spend billions of dollars in weapons to make their life more... bearable? One of the borders is also sealed (by Egypt) but for some magical reason that border does not contribute to making it a concentration camp? And when Egypt occupied the land in the past, that was no occupation. No, no, no. But when Israeli settlers build irrigation systems, that's an occupation. And even after they pack their bags and go, they were still occupying the land!!! (According to this Albanese person from the UN.) With their minds, I suppose. In other words, it's simply a metaphor, and a very bad one at that. Metaphors, comparisons, and hyperbole are the favourite rhetorical tricks of demagogues. And they use them to great effect. You just remove the word "like" and it works its magic. "That thing" becomes "the other thing". It's not that reminds you of the other thing, which seems to invite lots of questions. It just is the other thing. And critical thinking just shuts down. And sure, let's not mention that big, scary, monstrous, barbaric, medieval, inhumane, irrational, unmentionable thing that we don't want to mention, lest we finally understand somehow what we're really dealing with here. I'm sorry that you feel that way. From where I stand, it looks like a thankless task to study for years and years and years, without getting anywhere, and thinking all that study time could have been spent in something more productive, more constructive, more beautiful. It feels like Sysyphus.

Israel's MO is to constantly play the victim to justify its asymmetric ability to apply aggression. Interesting to see Biden losing his grip on the situation and inability to rein in Netanyahu and his coalition attack dogs. Netanyahu/Ben-Givr will stop when the situation suits them strategically.

Nope. You are seemingly denying the words and actions of Bibi and his Far Right coalition. Bibi has said on multiple occasions that there is no two state solution with Palestinian sovereignty, or any return of stolen land. That's not someone seeking peace or justice for all parties. His position is a radical Zionist position backed up with harassment and killing of West Bank people, fomenting vigilante murder done by illegal settlers, massive and indiscriminate bombing that has in the current war killed over 18,000 civilians, half of them children, use of white phosphorus, starvation of civilians, murder of POWs and surrendered soldiers, etc. These are the actions of an unlawful and immoral regime. There is nothing liberal about them, and my sympathies to the Israelis who have broken free of their national news bubble and realize what their government is doing. So yes, I will compare the illiberal actions of both Israel and Hamas. Look up "Israel War Crimes" on Wikipedia - it's a real eye-opener.

Attempting to compare the 'liberalism' ( or lack of ) of Gaza and Israel is akin to D Trump saying "There are good people on both sides".

It is a bit of a paradox. The only group of folks I find intolerable are those that can't tolerate whole groups of people. But I don't need to set up your oppressive hierarchy. I don't need to ban religions entirely. That's just more straw. I want to remove the toxic influence of the Abrahamic religions from our governance. Do I need to ban them to do that, or can I just enforce what the US Constitution says about separating church from state? I don't need to remove the churches as long as I can get the transparency I need to keep them from molesting children, again a crime we already have provisions for. I don't need to ban the teachings as long as those who use it for violence can be dealt with by the law, which has been difficult in the past. I don't need to emulate these religions with an oppressive hierarchy. Instead, I'd really like to move forward with some relief for all the people Jesus is supposedly weeping for, and maybe work on alleviation of suffering instead of embracing it as part of our sinful heritage. I'd like to remove the oppressive hierarchies Judaism and Islam inflict on those outside their faiths, too. I should be able to do that again by simply enforcing existing laws against the promotion of human suffering. Keep your religion, but stop using it as a shield to keep harming others. It's tiring trying to see the trees through the forest of strawmen, but ultimately I think it's time to admit we have shackles on all of us, put there by the Abrahamic religions, and kept in place with our own minds thousands of years after the original con was engineered. It's embarrassing, I know, but we should be smart enough to rise above it. Science can show us we should just bookmark this fiasco and move ahead with educating ourselves in the natural world.

I'm astonished that there can really be so much debate as to whether Gaza is a place of inhumane confinement or not. Numerous posts have documented this reality. Few people could leave, except for maybe half a percent who had work permits (also a feature of some prisons). Food and water constantly rationed. Normal trade and economic opportunities blocked. Every few years, jets pass over and destroy part of the infrastructure and housing. Who gives a FF what it's called, it is still inhumane and strips people of basic sovereignty over their own lives. Weird that members here who could easily grasp the miseries of places like East Berlin or the Ghetto of Warsaw, find it difficult to empathize with the 99% of Palestinians who are not Hamas militants and are simply trying to survive. Both Israel and Hamas are at fault, each feeding the endless cycle of vengeful hatred and reprisal, each dominated by an illiberal and miltant faction in a part of the world where liberalism is most sorely needed.

On what planet?

We can start a new thread, but I just wanted to mention that the economic model is not what necessarily creates dictatorships (as evidenced that we have basically five countries left that call themselves communist, but far more dictatorships), so I would not be particularly interested in rehashing that argument. One could make a thread discussing the difference between ideologies (which is structured in Marxism, but fairly empty in Fascism) and contrast it to the respective movements (which both were autocratic either from inception or increasingly became thus). But I suspect that neither of us has the background to fully flesh those discussions out in detail. To move things on topic, a fourth reich or whatever is certainly hyperbole, but there have been active discussions in Israel (prior to the current events) regarding a possible slide towards fascism. Following the election in 2022 some have argued that despite a right-wing slide (far right bloc with 11%, Israel is still lagging behind Europe in that regard with the far (not sure whether that is reassuring, though) https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/08/opinion/israel-election-fascism.html. Other articles in a similar vein claim that fascist characteristics in Europe are not present in Israel. Conversely, some folks, including former prime minister Ehud Barak have argued that the the government under Netanyahu are indeed showing signs of fascism https://www.timesofisrael.com/ehud-barak-govt-shows-signs-of-fascism-mass-non-violent-revolt-may-be-needed/ Also: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-democracy-rule-of-law/673469/ I.e. if one focuses on the end points, it is easy enough to find distinctions, and some are probably trivial (such as anti-Semitism). However, looking at the mechanisms, such as dismantling of judiciary systems, the similarities start to show. Not only in Israel, but also in countries with increasingly powerful right-wing populist movements. It is detrimental to use terms such as fourth reich or concentration camps, as those are loaded and inevitably invite a rather meaningless discussion in semantics. The real questions here in my mind is what happens to democratic safeguards with the rise of populism, what are the reasons for that rise and are the long-term consequences. I do think that this is a global challenge and relying of the relative peace in the Western world after WWII as evidence that all is going to go well forever, is somewhat shortsighted. To be sure, the events in OP are not necessarily connected to this particular issue, but the jingoist sentiments that put Netanyahu in power and encouraged him to support Hamas to further weaken the two-state solution shows the risks of such sentiments. Peace should not be taken for granted.

Time is a pure concept of people. Is there time in Space? On Mars? Time will occur there, if a human with clock got there. Do animals know what is time?

Board's break with beam, baleful blow, belike. Moot not this mere's mark; mind ye, [craft] and [ken], not [kin], should helm. OpenAI's weard, now wend, waxes not. Unfold further, frore news fain.