s1eep

Let's not delve into child's play, it's not about winning, it's about living and learning. Don't get too fatherly, surely that's arrogance, you are also "wrong sometimes"; throwing a tantrum or stretching your ego I don't care, but doing something that brings us off-topic. The question seeks an answer, remember, you didn't answer it you dodged it and left a little subliminal insult. Yes I am "pointing the finger" somewhat. Who's to say that scientists aren't to be pointed at? Especially if they are doing something wrong. Perhaps the perfect philosophical theory is balanced with a more imaginative and knowledgeable mindset -- you would be less nihilistic with your presentation and productivity, and this, may, mean science needs to balance itself with this particular philosophy. A scientists nihilistic nature is abstruse, it's not easy to address it directly. Like cancer, perhaps. It's not addressed on wikipedia. Perhaps it's undiscovered.

What flavor is that of scientists?

You best start believing in ghost stories, You're in one. "I don't believe in moderators" is probably illiterate - if not I compare it to solipsism. If it wasn't for the moderators, this forum wouldn't work. If you're seeking a freer forum then try something non-field specific. However, you're not supposed to agree with the moderators, just follow their rules - being fair, some of them are probably intelligent and should be listened to.

It's not, they are not opposite to each other. Science and Philosophy maybe, Religion is the intruding third-party that acts like a Philosophy.

The way I'm suggesting is what's written on the face of the print, no strange meaning involved.

In my opinion God/Christianity is the same as any other story, but it incorporates tradition, power, etc into it's writing, meaning people can live with it ( because it says "Pick up..." a few times and people can do it; example ). The bible had a head-start over other stories, I imagine it was one of the first, published to a majority, books, and it still goes on today, giving it antique value, and this list can go on forever - the amount of value-attribution to God. I wrote this yesterday, "God isn't a necessary for morality, justice is. God isn't a necessary for heaven and earth, righteousness is. God is all these things to you, honor, respect, etc. included, but calling them God is an understatement. A lesser wisdom than them all together, ineffable." I firmly believe in this. -s13ep

There are many ways to imagine the world; but scientists imagine the world in line with the scientific method. Are scientists somewhat nihilistic, therefore? And what I mean by this is that the infinite nature of the mind, seems suppressed to a particular standpoint.

Chapter 1 You find yourself sat down on a road in an empty town next to a small fire that you're using to keep warm. Upended in the central district, that you can just see over the tops of houses, is a burned and blackened fort that ebbs, and creeks, every so often, as the wind passes by. You think "the town is made fuller by it's presence" but others do not agree. You lend an ear to listen to sounds of victory that you hear from deep within the fort, and they capture your heart. You walk carefully towards the music, passing broken houses and skeletal remains outside them. As soon as the fort is in full view, you are left blinded and dazed by a sudden flash of light, that you raise your arms to evade the worst of. A few seconds later, you let down your guard, your eyes slowly regain focus, and you see down on the ground in front of you, a moving red flush. You look up at the fort, and it is up in flames; the music, now clearer and wilder than before. As you approach the fort's arched entrance, in front of you appears a silhouette with similar composition. You immediately pull your arms to your sides, and the shade follows suit. You walk left somewhat, but to your surprise the shadow walks right, and as you turn your head to examine it, it begins to aimlessly sneak around the archway before another, closer, flash, blinds your view. The silhouette still bold among the bright light, as the scene slowly fades to black. Chapter 2 You awaken in the midst of a vast field of green, and light-colours, and looking around you notice that the area is filled with many different kinds of flowers that're all blossoming gracefully. It seems as if there is more white than green, but when you concentrate, you confirm that there is more green. You stop looking around, passing the Sun once as you walk onward with a focused look on your face; but then you stop walking, suddenly, because in the distance of every direction is forest, and night is soon upon you. A brief moment after you had stopped, the Sun sets, and as it does the field seemingly gets smaller and the forests bigger, and closer, until they are at the tip of your feet. You are swept backwards onto the ground that you land on with a jolt and a thud. Hard dirt crumbles up from deep underground all around and beneath you; you look at all the trees as they twist themselves into existence, cautious but impressed; and then suddenly, the vicinity goes dark - you cannot see. Things start to crawl up your legs; crazed squeaking and hissing noises make it so you cannot hear. Your smile fades quickly, and you jump around, kicking and punching the air. When most of them are off of you, you run, and when you do the noises get quieter, and further away, and you do not look like you're going to stop. Rays of light beam through the tree tops far ahead of your position. You stop and examine, but immediately after a violent scream sounds from a few steps back, and the light retreats leaving you in darkness as you turn to face your fears. Chapter 3 You feel a brush of wind against your neck; your eyes open slightly and you move around, stretching, and turning your body and head asymmetrically, before you realize you are in bed, tired and dreamy. A second later, another brush of wind flurries against the back of your head, that's a lot more forceful this time; it pulls away and gusts back as a gnawing feeling accompanied by a gnawing sound, that seems to be coming from your head. It's as if you are being eaten, but it's effect is as soft as the wind was. You know in yourself that you're dreaming, but you're unusually paranoid; dark thoughts plague your mind as the biting continues, you think "it's too serene to be a nightmare". You try to wake up, but to your dismay, you can't. You try even harder, putting your weight into it, and manage to break out of the dream state; your upper body shoots forward and you are wide awake briefly, the dream had taken your breath away. A rush of confidence comes over you, you're tired, and you decide to go back to sleep. When you drift off, you awaken once again in the same room, in the same bed, with the same gnawing wind, but this time, it has a voice that sounds like a childhood rival of yours. After every bite or two, it laughs at you and has a violent outburst, however, it quickly gets calmer, making it bearable. You stop looking at the window, feeling brave enough to examine the wind, and then commit to it, but nothing is there - as you turn your head back around, on the floor is the rival of yours, primal and naked.

I argue that everyone 'should' respect the planet, and thus everyone has a compound respect or faith; one respects his mother because she gave birth to one, and one is brought up by her bosom, at her side. Whether or not you accept this fact, the Earth played a crucial role in your birth; and you grew up by it's side, or at least of it's material. Without editing the universe, Earth is vital to our existence; it's the pursuit of knowledge for self or selves-empowerment that draws us further away, seemingly ability-wise, from the planet, but this is just in thought, it's barely put in practice. Sure we can visit mars but we can expect hundreds of years until we create colonies with good varied genetics and survivability. Our editing of the original universe, in thought, or literally on Earth and nearby space, stars and planets, is prone to mistakes and critical failure. Earth's chances were edged toward healthy progression, in it's original state. Humans would not have become civilized, clothes-wearing and talking ( that doesn't mean that we wouldn't have style or communication in the unedited world ) creatures, and evolution would have not stopped and digressed from that point - I'm thinking something like the film Avatar for the future of Earth, not balding heads and rich or academically successful life on Mars. To conclude, it's not there at the moment, everyone doesn't have a compound respect, but I've gave two reasons why we 'should' respect the planet. It's good for you, and it's stupid for us not to respect Earth. You are evil from the perspective of no God, but humanity. And nature is mostly good, especially when you're the top of the food chain. I will accept debate but I would prefer discussion, and on top of this I'm ignoring low-effort quasi-intelligent and perverse "look how I'm taking your serious-tone as a joke and acting stupid in the midst of your passions - you're easily fooled!", responses.

Star-Crossed Chapter 1 : Among Others. You find yourself near an old keep of burned, blackened wood, that ebbs and creeks eerily in the centre of an empty town. The town seems to be made fuller by it's presence, but others do not agree. You lend an ear to listen to sounds of promise from deep within the keep, and they capture your heart. You walk carefully towards the music, but after a few steps forward, you are left blinded and dazed by a sudden flash of light. When you finally reach the end of a struggle to open your eyes, you let down your guard to see that in front of you on the ground is a blazing red; and as you look up toward the keep, it is up in flames; the music, now clearer and wilder than before. As you approach the keep's arched entrance, in front of you appears a silhouette with similar posture. You immediately pull your arms to your sides, and the shade follows suit. You walk left somewhat, but to your surprise the shadow walks right, and as you turn your head to examine the shade it begins to aimlessly sneak around the archway before another, closer, flash, blinds your view. The silhouette bold among the bright light, as the scene slowly fades to black. Chapter 2 : Heaven You awaken in the midst of a vast field of green and white, and looking around you notice that scattered everywhere are various kinds of flowers, blossoming a pink hue; it seems as if there is more white than green but upon further inspection you see there is more green. You stop looking around, passing by the Sun once as you walk onward with a focused look on your face; but then you stop walking, suddenly, because in every direction is forest, and the night is soon upon you. Soon after you had stopped, the Sun had set, and as it did the plains seemingly got smaller and the forests bigger, and closer, until they are at the tip of your feet. You are swept away backwards onto the ground that you land on with a jolt and a thud. Hard dirt and rocks swiftly crumble up and out from underneath your footing; you look around shocked at all the trees; and then suddenly, the vicinity goes dark as they block the final moonlight - you cannot see. Things start to crawl up your legs - squeaking and hissing noises make it so you cannot hear. Your smile fades quickly, and you jump around relentlessly, kicking and punching the air. When most of them are off of you, you run, and when you do the noises get quieter, and further away, and you do not look like you're going to stop. Radiant rays of light pierce through the foliage far ahead of you in the distance... You stop and examine, but immediately after a violent scream sounds from a few steps back, and the light retreats back behind the tree tops.

This is stupid. We have finite resources, if life was all about pleasure then humans would have never come to be.

Will do, goodbye.

This is where there is a misunderstanding, I've said, many times, the heart is the centre of which emotion arises. The heart doesn't experience emotion. The heart doesn't feel or sense emotion. The heart IS the vital organ necessary for emotions to arise in the body and mind. I've said, as it pumps blood around the body, it also sends the chemicals wild-- this makes sense to me and any wise man, but I'll go further in-depth to explain what I mean by "wild"; by wild I mean chaotic or unordered, and all meaning in-between those semantics. Without the heart sending these chemicals wild, there would be no liberty of the mind to feel emotion, for the chemicals would be docile or dead. A good example is that, people with no hearts (including artificial hearts), are dead, and more specifically, emotionless. I understand that I may be wrong, that's a step in your advised direction, but my philosophy isn't mainstream, or agreeable with academia, since it revolves around the sustainability of the planet and humanity, and four-ism (and the rest of my philosophy is for another thread; as I mentioned before it is mostly cubic-ism and that's unwelcomed here for reasons that have yet to be explained other than non-sequitur). Anyhow, because my philosophy is esoteric, I don't look at man-made facts, created as strings of words, as the truth, or something to agree with, and rather I only believe what I sense naturally and wordlessly. Once again, as I said, I understand that I may be wrong, but I will confirm this using a method that agrees with my philosophy, that's anti-academic (so voiding your method), if that's okay with you?

@Endy0816: Thanks for the link, but can you answer the two questions I asked also?

@Phi: I have experienced a non-schizophrenic "voices in the head" or rather "voices in the space around me": I also can imagine anything in reality quality in the space around me and think imagination is very powerful because of this... And as you know I'm a believer in cubic science which we won't go into but this influences my support for imagination. When a voice arises in the space around me, which usually comes in the form of "that was him", or "he doesn't know" (competitive voices; I'm one step behind, their one step ahead), they seems to be coming from the heart getting excited or manipulated, as if something has taken homage in my heart. To be "one step ahead" and for me to be "one step behind" they would need to be in my subconscious where all my inactive memories remain. I've also experienced episodes of wordlessness, where not one word-thought from the tongue enters the mind for a brief five minutes; and finally imagery flashing up in a closed-eyed state, which I could respond to with thought, and it would flash up with imagery to scare me into submission of certain powers (which I won't go into as it's abstruse and would take a long time); for these images to tell me things symbolically, like, what my far away uncle's personality is like or what I most feared as a child, again, they must have a clear view of my subconscious (when I say they I mean the voices 'up around here and there' in the space around me). What truly led me to believe the heart was the seat of all emotion, and more recently an influence on the subconscious, is what I had just told you. I would, or rather my heart would, get excited, and a voice would arise, so if it was possible for a person to spiritually or psychologically enter my heart, I'm saying they would have a view into my subconscious. Imagine, or think metaphorically, something bashing your heart with a soft item and causing it to omit a voice or thought; that is the position I am in, and it's my own form of evidence that is present to myself but not others. The reason someone with a peacemaker would be less-excitable (in the sense of 'bashing hearts with a soft item') is because they are essentially using non-biological heart-- they also are part disabled if they have a peacemaker. I'm just using my wisdom to make assumptions about the peacemaker being a weaker version of a heart that could possibly malfunction upon 'bashing with a soft item' to give rise to voices or thoughts in or outside of the head, it may even repent them all together, or be more susceptible. I have a very special case, and it's not going to be in any research paper on the internet. Now, everything I said about my imagination is true, including the fact that it's not schizophrenia since I have and see regularly a psychologist who has told me on many occasions he doesn't know what my problem/gift is, and the diagnosis was once schizophrenia which had changed to 'unknown' about four months in. How do one of these voices arise? It's not a mental disease, it's more like a psychological virus that's toying with my powerful 'imagine reality quality things anywhere in the space around me' imagination, making me make mistakes, making the things I imagine abstractions to some degree, and so forth. I have examined myself and I'm pretty good at doing that, and I have come up with: 1. The heart is excited (hit with an iron sceptre) 2. There is a passage through the subconscious. 3. A voice arises that's the perfect or imperfect response to my prior thoughts, weirdly, in the space around me and not the head. What else could possibly be the cause of these voices bar a mental disease because my doctor and psychologist have already singled this one out? And how do they come up with the true answers to questions long in the past that I cannot or would not remember off the top of my head until reminded? You are being very aggressive; read and re-read your words. It's not nice to read, you've begged a bad and/or aggressive reaction, which you did not get-- I'm asking you to calm down.

@Endy0816 As long as the blood is pumping around the body and the chemicals in the body are being sent wild, then it doesn't matter what causes it. I imagine someone with an artificial heart is less excitable, and thus won't be prompted so often. Perhaps I am wrong about the heart being the subconscious, but it could be a massive influence.

@Moontaman: it works as a heart does and pumps blood around the body.

@Moontanman: People who have mechanical hearts, still have heart-like entities. @John Cuthber: I don't think it's silly, and think it does tie in with well known facts, but you have misunderstood the original post. The heart experiences nothing, it's the pumping blood organ of which, I think, creates the means for emotion, the source of, not the receptor. I agree the brain experiences emotion, however, I think it is binary with the heart and the heart is producing the means for emotion, by pumping blood and sending the chemicals in the body wild, for the brain to then harmonize (i.e. make harmony out of; make sense of). What were the Egyptians explaining metaphorically by "seat of all emotion"? Let's take a seat, then, people sit on seats so let's add the central opposing factor to the seat, the sitter, who becomes seated upon sitting. This is what I'm assuming is true, that it's the source, and not the receptor which is the human being who sits on the seat, but without this comforting chair to sit on, there is no emotion, so it's necessary. As for why it's the subconscious, I need more time to learn how to explain.

Made me question my idea, sorry but I have a love for wisdom, and artistry... Maybe that's not welcome here; but exactly that last sentence is my wisdom, and I love expressing it. There are some things that can only be made clear through the use of wisdom, metaphors and such. Maybe not made correct, but clarity comes through using the car metaphor. I imagine we could debate/discuss here revolving around the car metaphor for hours. Okay, so my short-term thinking time has led to this answer: There always needs to be a secondary, equal and opposite to the car (i.e. a driver), and this is a heart and mind on a different, higher level; the person is the heart and the car as a whole is the mind (metaphorically). The driver sticks the key in the ignition, and this is where the engine starts, as I said in the original post, this is where 'hearts cross' and instinct arises. *If there is no second, the car doesn't exist, it's a singularity (there at least must be an observer; there at least needs to be you explaining about the car). **'equal and opposite'-- opposed to, in a position of relevance to the central aspects of 'a car'.

Well, spark requires a key in the ignition, no? And if not, I meant 'spark' reference.

Well let me think and educate myself on the subject of hearts and minds and come back in a month or two and further discuss this, please keep the thread unlocked, feel free to discuss, and I will respond to any discussion directed at me! I will admit, the "key" reference really ruffled my feathers.

Maybe my mumbling isn't perfected, but it may be perfected by someone with expertise, and elevation can occur through discussion. The thought-prompt, I guess then, is a by-product of the brain assimilating the heart and sensing from it's position, as the two are connected almost imperfectly opposite to one another.

I guess that it's because the heart pumps blood around the body, and in a way the blood flow and heart are connected; like an engine to a car, the heart is necessary for any form of drive/movement. If the brain senses the heart, as I asked before (I don't know if it does), then surely it can synchronize or even receive signals from the heart as if it was in the position of the heart??? A car metaphor works perfectly, that's where this opinion arose.

Being less strict on semantics, when I say align, I mean, 'meet in the middle', rather than completely eclipse the cat's heart. And by no means am I saying the heart experiences anything, I'm saying it's the source which sends the chemicals in your body wild, for them to then be assimilated by the mind. Let me ask two questions: Does the brain experience emotion with no heartbeat?! Does the brain sense the heart? Let me bring to the topic then, I think that the heart is the source of all emotion and it's my opinion, let's discuss, above is written what had led me to this belief.

I have edited the original post, as the original post once said "The copy & paste feature doesn't work, so I'm trying to use the quick edit option to see if it works", it didn't, so I wrote it freehand, it took me about five minutes, sorry for the delay.