hoola

fpppt.KAPOW...you sunk his battleship doctor krettin....!.

thank you strange....!....

for what it's worth, there is a utube video that claims that he Titanic and Olympic identities were switched as the Olympic had unrepairable problems, and the re-branded Olympic was sent on the cruise to be "accidently" sunk.

thanks for the reply....I hadn't considered that issue. If some nitrogen leaks out over time, what if little oxygen migrates inward (ambient air is 70% nitrogen), perhaps some benefit would result. I suppose a test of inward/outward gas permeability rates of a wrapper would have to be done. Most convenience foods come in cartons. The products could be in a similarly gas charged overall carton (shrink wrap), giving more time before gas transfers can occur as the nitrogen would have to transpire 2 layers. In practical application, a store keeps the product in the carton until ready to display individual wrapped items, leaving little time for gas transfer in a wrapper exposed directly to ambient air. In the case of the depleted CO2 coke bottles, did any oxygen get in is the salient point, futhermore the food packages will be under atmospheric pressure, not pressurized.

I have heard that one reason hydrogenated oils are added to certain foods is that is extends shelf life if effect by reducing oxygenation of the ingredients. Could not the need for such treatment of the oil be reduced or eliminated by packaging the item in nitrogen or some other appropriate gas? It would seem easily done to purge the air and add the inert gas as a final step in the manufacturing process.

but I am speculating on the topic, namely cause of motion as relates to time, and mainstream science has supported the "math as everything" idea from Pythagoris to Tegmark, and that I am "defending" the OP to the degree that if there is a relationship between the two, a possible cause for that relation, and based upon that cause, a few particular concequences.

when I described motion, I am describing the smallest form of motion, that is virtual particle motion. I see the quantum effect of light being of dual wave and particle, so the same with fundamental particles, and the same with time. I am not confusing electronic terms with velocity terms, I am saying that IF time has a quantum basis, there is unity in the underlying structure of light, particles, and time. I see time as the most fundamental of the three, as that mechanism allows the other two to exhibit their particular properties, not that it necessarily caused it. As far as the big bang causing motion, yes, in a geometric sense, but that property must have been mapped out in the previous era of informational calculations that set up the bb to happen the way it did. So, the ability to move physically was first described mathematically as "little bangs" between the "significant participants", then the "just push play" of the mature program was allowed to begin it's final iteration of this particular universe with our big bang. I further see that there are "less significant" participants, and dark matter is one of those as it is more remotely linked in the mathematical flow chart and so has fewer little bangs (allowable interactions) with the major players. I further see that the intervals between " finite discriptors" as an artifact of the logic that led to formal geometric mathematical properties, formally expressing those intervals as the emergent physical phenomena of "distance".

while time allows geometric motion, isn't time itself a form of informational wave motion of a fundamental oscillation, with each moment as a collapse of that wave into discrete parts when observed (or interacted with in a geometric or physical sense) similar to light's duality status? I see that is why time slows down in a higher gravitational field and through accelerations. The fundamental oscillator interacts with more changes of mass/energy under those conditions, so more interactions slow the completion of time's duty cycle. I further see this related to the Unruh effect in acceleration and Hawking radiation as relates to gravity, where the duty cycle meets it's ultimate geometric slowdown; complete interruption of the interacting virtual particles which are closely coupled to the fundamental time regime.

right, the informational context of the realm of mathematics and may contain "infinites" ( or more precisely, heading to infinite) and geometric reality, constrained even further to the grounding of finite concepts. I see the concept of infinite as not infinite, but as the end product of the fastest possible theoretical calculation begun at the start or a particular universe, that is limited to a finite expression by the lifespan of the particular universe the said calculation takes place in.

yes substitute, I see this universe as having an edge. That is the spherical boundary where space is expanding into the void, dragging matter behind it. I see that expansion as the dark energy, matter and space as finite, only the void is "infinite".

I kinda agree neuro...I see humans as having 3 brains: reptilian, mammalian and human. This set of 3 processors are competitive rivals for dominance, hence why people are so fraught with internal conflict, and so vulnerable to drugs and alcohol as they offer an alteration to the internal battle that gives one of the contestants a slight temporary edge in that conflict.... so the "winning" (ala charlie sheen) is but one example of the phenomena. One brain "wins" as the other two suffer....along with his career.

what about gravity waves passing through the test apparatus? Would a low freq wave lasting through the duration of a test skew the expected value of G at a particular point in time? Could gravity wave noise coming in from the universe affect the result depending on the frequency, intensity, duration, polarity and direction the wave might be coming from? One would presume that the effects would be too small to skew a result, with the difficulty of detecting even large waves from colliding black holes. I am only mention it to eliminate it as a credible possibility of the fluctuating test results.

I see where a black hole can be described by mass, spin and charge. Couldn't another description be the rate of Hawking radiation detected at a standardized distance from the event horizon, or a theorized level occuring at the horizon? Or would that radiation level be a deriviative of the 3 standard discriptions and not independent of them?

There is a fire sentience must go through to escape extinction. Reality is an informational device, and as such all things imaginable by sentient beings are described within the context of the mathematical bulk (sentient free will), and as a childish species we mistake them as our ideas, our "creativity", if you will. Thus the egoist adherence to faulty ideas as well as the good ones. We respond to these algorithmic extensions without the selectivity of maturity, and seems we have run out of time to attain it. A perfect example of this behavior is the last election. We have a masochistic side and express it in the subtle pain of casual self-injury and by seeing others in pain in overtly. Some art expresses choices before us as a culture, and proposes to show a future result of various immediate behaviors.

I rarely have deja vu "like" experiences,sometimes a word heard or internal thought might trigger a near instantaneous feeling of "that stimuli was a repitition of a prior event", but the other day I went and borrowed a part for a heater in my living room. Came home and anxious to complete the job, skipped dinner. This was an all day job. As I finished the task, a movie played in my head of the highlights of the entire day and was accompanied by a warm, rather pleasant feeling, (extending from my solar plexus to the top of my head) of being "in sync" with the universe, that lasted perhaps ten or fifteen seconds. The intellectual reaction after the experience ended was one of surprise of the thought that I had done this all before, almost as a "deterministic act" embedded in a randomized world.

thank you janus, this seems to settle the issue of why the temp increases.

ok, but what is the proposed explanation of that evaporation temperature increase, if not via the uncertainty principle of position vs. momentum allowing particle speeds to exceed C?

This was discussed in the hawking radiation lectures of 2015. I don't remember who said it, or which lecture, but it did seem pretty unbelievable...the reason given, as I recall was that as the position of the hawking radiation source is more defineable as it shrinks, the velocity becomes less defineable (uncertainty principle), and that is why the radiation increases as the hole shrinks down towards zero size. I will go back over them (Utube) and find out and provide that info.

while the speed of light is fixed, doesn't the hawking radiation emitted at the end of a black hole's life supposedly exceed C as a result of the uncertainty principle?

so, there are no gradations within the larger set of observers? And I am not deliberately getting into whether anything exists when no one is looking. That is another issue. I am interested in the limits of an observer's maximum informational exchange, and asymmetries relative to each observer's capacity to process and store interactions within a finite test period. So a camera has more "capacity" than a wall, and a human has more than a camera. On the subject of "whether anything exist when no one is looking"....if observers are everywhere, then those components of the universe look at each other, in a sort of entanglement of observance, thus maintaining long term memory of it's own existence, (factoring in a gradual alteration due to entropy), independent of a conscious observer's behaviour.

"There is nothing special about consciousness in this. The observer could be a camera...." Yes, but the final step in the process towards any measurement outcome is a sentient mind to observe the meter or camera, then know the outcome and perhaps share that information with other observers. And to have built the meter and camera, then set up experiments using this equipment. In short, does not our unique manipulation of reality infer a unique observer status? Certainly a brick wall did not perform any experiment, and then share that information within the individual bricks making up this wall, or between itself and any adjacent brick walls. sensi, perhaps the missing info on the camera is a conflict between the scanning process / pixel density of your camera and the interference pattern you are try to capture. A sort of interfering in a random fashion on another interference pattern. Perhaps using a film camera would give more consistent results

to moontoonman...yes, I think the universe can be "hacked",,,the observer effect seems to predict that consciousness can be seen as a 5th force, not an actual force, but able to influence the outcome of interactions of the "real" four forces, at least on the basis of human perception of extant reality. The observer affects the experiment, This "hacking" is perhaps a clue to the nature of the Fermi paradox. and due to recent political events, seems well underway on this planet.

the reason I said it "seems" math is at the bottom of everything, (and allows the existence of computers, both inorganic and organic) is that Pythagoras said it, John Wheeler speculated on "why anything and why the quantum", and most recently Max Tegmark's book Our Mathematical Universe is explicit on the subject. Why anything, indeed.... how could the nascent universe begin from a void? My model amplifies the only label that can be attached to this proposed void, in that there was only ONE void, not 1/2 a void, or 46 semi-voids....that is the ephemeral fleeting thing, and the only thing possible to describe said void, thus demanding that I must use what is available and build upon it. I use this idea as a starting point for my IBH model, which I admit is only an amusing (if only to myself) placeholder until a more coherent idea if offered.....as much as can be deduced about the universe at large based upon the studying what exists, is to an extent the "low hanging fruit". The real work will be to deduce what happened before this universe existed, pre-big bang, where there can be no physical, or (mature) mathematical evidence to dissect.

It seems that computers both inert (the universe) and living (sentient) might arise from a finite component of a non-living mathematical bulk interacting within itself that allows our occurrence within this region of relative stability.

Thanks strange.....the idea of the interior of a black hole having no matter seems problematic. So, the gravity field does not require a carrier or some sub-structure to manifest the field? A gravitational "monopole" with no counterpart? . The earth has a 1G field strength at the surface. I would presume that gravity drops off as you near the center with a matching pressure increase. Would the pressure at a BH interior cause infalling matter and energy to be crushed to strings, trading QM derived gravitational pressure maximized at the horizon, for classical compression as you approach the center? Casimir demonstrates a reduction of particle expression in some circumstances. It would seem the super density of the interior would exclude pair formation in a sort of casimir-exclusion principle.