hoola

...so, it from bit then...

if the particles are mathematical abstractions, they seem to have a physical presence in certain tests until they are "borrowed back".

not real? then what is the source of the casimir force?

to simplify matters...what if there was only one particle emitted as borrowed energy instead of a pair, and it bumped into other particles of space, and those interactions determine the annialations ....and... What if a single particle appeared into a void, and no other particles existed, causing it to express maximum energy since nothing else was there to prevent that from happening...wouldn't that be a model for the big bang?

as I understand it, space is composed of two virtual particles appearing, then annialating, as borrowed energy, but do these pairs originate from the same source? If they were omitted at that same point, why would they have been differentiated in the first place? Wouldn't they have "pre annialated"? Were they cancelling each other out until physical separation allowed their respective properties to materialize?

there is a fairly recent online lecture some may find interesting : Fabrizio Pinto - Casimir Effect Propulsion Applications - You Tube.

thank you MigL, I am fairly aware as to how systems such as these are detailed, and follow the ideas as best I can, and I expressed the dual matterwave idea so as to attain a visual picture of what is happening, in order to build up an intuitive understanding of these matters. Of course it's a clumsy mechanistic approach and realized it's pretty laughable when I wrote it, and thankfully the responses have been quite civil.

thank you for the response. To the degree I understand it, it seems a valid criticism.

for some reason, my newer entries were not displayed on the last page, but the first, so let me re iterate what I said recently. If entangled particles can be considered as matter waves only until wavefunction collapse, and each matterwave has a distinct, but inverted waveform, running parallel to each other, and proximate enough to induce cancellation, then an increase in spatial separation of the two data streams sufficient to cause them to not interfere would allow them to re appear as real data pertaining to both particles properties, allowing the collapse of the wavefunction into their particular structures. The fact of the two data streams being inverted offers the reason to expect the particles to have the opposite spins. I will go back to the bottom of page one to see if they are still there, as they have a more complete dialogue on what I am saying now....well, they certainly are not there, and since the idea will certainly be broadly panned, I will not persue the matter unless there is any interest of a further explanation.

the idea of the gap widening along the entire length can be modified as to: gap widening close to either termination of the matterwaves of sufficient length to contain enough information to describe the particle completely, and that no energy to the system other than the initial interrogation of either particle is needed for the mechanism to work.

in order to maintain non locality in this scenario, the matterwaves are parallel, and inductively proximate so as to enforce destructive interference, and when one particle is interrogated, the spatial distance between waves is increased sufficient to allow them to ignore one another for individual particle creation. This infers a syncronos recovery of the particles if the gap separation increase is instantaneous along the length of distance between particles.

it seems as though two signals (matter waves) in an entangled particle situation are operating in a destructive fashion, and in a sense, don't exist in a normal context. The act of observing either wave directly seems to shield each signal from the other, ending the destructive effects, allowing them to manifest into individual real matter particles, based upon the information in the original matter waves. The fact that the resultant particles are necessarily of opposite spins is due to the matter waves having been 180 deg. out of phase in the original scenario.

right you are

right, but if the measurements were somehow not (as a pure thought experiment) restrained by relativity, would outcomes be any different?

yes, but we are dealing with a quantum function, and that "it knows no time" and not restrained by relativity

if alice determines an up and that delivers a down measurement for bob, what if they determine their respective particles at the same instant in time, should that somehow be made to happen, and would that matter to the outcome?

joigus....I agree that communication via entanglement is impossible now, only that a technical solution might change that in the future, and speculate that if the sub structure of everything is math, that is the key to achieve a technical solution.

I have breezed through the many pages of what I did not expect to see generated by my "crowded quantum" question, but the topic was not about "standard" QM and the normal questions associated to that, but the possibility of directly modifying specific particle pairs, thus creating a communications pathway by allowing an additional degree of freedom not present in normal matter, while at the same time not affecting normal entanglement properties of these prepared particles. A sort of manipulation of larger clumps of matter can now be done with nanomaterials, and if all matter is composed of mathematics, why can't those basic building blocks someday be modified directly and alter reality at a "nanomathematical" (sub plankian) scale for specific purposes?

so, I guess you don't think much of the idea that virtual particle collisions represent the mechanism that causes dark energy and/or that they indeed can be considered as the smallest possible gravity wave generators. I certainly see your point that regular gravity waves are not generally repulsive, however it does seem that any physical process, and that includes the transfer of gravity waves, must have some underlying inefficiencies, however small, as they travel through space. Since there is a movement from point A, the black hole, to point B, LIGO, it seems self evident that there is a "push" going on at the level of the inherent inefficiencies of that system.

if they are "pushing against" space time over here, they are by definition, repulsive it would seem...even if the push is somewhat negated within the quadrapole network, it seems there should be some "residue" of an inherent ineffeciency of the process, leaving a small overall repulsive force

If gravitational waves are considered as a repulsive force emanating from a collision of heavy objects and dark energy is similarly considered as a repulsive force, is there a link between those two phenomena as viewed from this common repulsive behavior? If dark energy is the leftovers of the annialations (collisions) of the vitrual particles of space, giving the small forces that are everywhere, inflating the cosmos in a smooth, continuous fashion, thus leaving dark energy as an aggregate of these smallest possible gravity waves, with ultra heavy objects detected by LIGO as tending toward the largest?

isn't is a surmise that there is no "flip"?, What if that they are sub-plankian in duration, therefore represent the hidden variables within the fundamental structures of space time?

I guess what I am asking is, can we play god and affect which state entangled particles must appear in by affecting the basic logic structure of i, by an addition of a sort of "viral" effect that doesn't destroy entanglement, as in a form of weak measurements?

the "box" are the algorithms that produce it. While the numbers are stored in an i file, still they are numbers, so they may respond to manipulations from real numbers.

I basically am asking if something could be added to the box, as a deliberate modification or addition to what is there, without excessive disturbance to the function of the box.