hoola

god is information that describes a thing with god-like qualities, and as such is illogical and only can be accessed with the mind, since logic limits what actually can appear or "do work" in this universe... god and countless variations of gods exist in the mathematical object's "junk dna", equivalent to a virus in a computer program...although part of the supporting overall required structure to allow the material universe to appear as it is...or else we couldn't imagine one, let alone millions of variations...

aren't you talking about the holodeck on star trek?

fred, wasn't that kurt godel?

ophiolite...I had no intention of saying the fibres as described in the casteneda book are to be taken for an "introduction" to string theory in the proper mathematical sense, only in the obvious semantic connection of the two terms, and so you are correct in your criticism...

ophiolite...ask the widow of carl sagan about marijuana, or did you not know he was not only a pot smoker, but wrote a book about the beneficial aspects of responsible use. Read about sir Wm. Halley as his reporting on hashish use to the royal society of astromomers, of which he headed. Evidence should be taken wherever you find it, with due deference to source, of course. The fact remains that upon first hearing about string theory in the early 80s, I believe it was, I immediately remembered the fibre reference in the sorcerer's ability to levitate which I had read in the early 70s. Be assured I don't think they could levitate, only preform a sort of hypnosis via suggestion. However, this does suggest insight if the universe ends up being "information based",since their modus was to determine the true nature of reality, not as a pastime, but their whole existence revolved around it. And what is thinking or casting spells, but manipulation of information ? That being said, I don't think that is totally without interest, as if reality itself is a mathematical object, dimensionality is an illusion, or a sort of fundamentally structured physical hypnosis...or more specifically, a hologram...

IAW? I am not bothered by the "the shaman makes it rain" reference....my first exposure to string theory was in the canstenada novel as the sorcerer don juan saying that the universe consisted at a deep level of "fibres". I see those strings having smaller components, effectively as strings of numbers, in algorithmic number sets, each set marking out specific internal properties, via the mathematical relationships afforded by stably valued individual numbers, that are viewed in a macroscopic way, as fundamental particles and fields...this is the philosophy section, is it not? This is the exact place to see the shamanistic references as an early attempt to understand reality...

hello IAW?, the hows do need to be ferreted out, and the trail of evidence (math) leads to the BB. I don't see the evidence shifting to whys before that. I see the evidence still consisting of hows, but not with the language of mathematics. What ever created the maths, in it's specific forms and with specific steps. I have been reading the Max Tegmark book, and agree with the universe as "mathematical object" idea, but not the conjectures that follow from allowing infinites to exist evidenced by the doppellganger problem...my own speculation on the "why" is that the universe has an awareness, (as another description within the mathematical object), and that the universe doesn't know (yet) the pre-math steps. As a baby left on a doorstep, doesn't know it's ultimate origin, and the extant universe is that "work" to arrive at that answer. The concept of the question always existed, and that concept has been evolved to a "heavier" form, by delineation as to the logic of it's substance, by mathematics proper, via sentience within the physical universe, acting as a mirror and in tandem with, a more fundamental impetus...

as to dealing with maths being infinitely divisible and reality being limited by plank length, is that the universe has only so much time to divide itself up. I say everything doesn't come from experience, the universe is a hazy view (at best) of a mathematical object, translated in algorithmicly compressed form, into a bit of a hologram, with limited resolution. I have my 4 fundamentals.....void/oneness, chaos/logic. These allow an exposition of information as they evolve from one to the next, to allow lighter substances such as "concepts" to provide presentations of what the concept concerns....or "heavier" substances. Namely void to chaos to logic, then the maths, then reality. I say the "things in themselves" are divisible also, as they are made of individual numbers, a finer grain structure than the "wobbly" quantum or plank lengths...or averaged approximations of the driving information streams, which are themselves grainy due to finer divisions. I see the divisions always have some finer strucure, all the way back to the void, which has 2 parts. The void and it's brightly painted "1" on the side..... The maths stem from the appearance of the singularity of the void once logic allowed a stability of a description of said singularity, as logic allowed under the rubric of the geometry of the spherical point void, the algorithm PI. Of course, I see an increase in complexity as reality evolved from concept to chaos, then a large a large decrease in complexity, only due to the fact that primary chaos information was unstable in value (informal information), having no logic yet to restrain it...then as logic allowed math (formal information), complexity increased once again, and still is. Evidence for this I see as the expansion of the universe and sentient awareness. ...volitile world, thanks for the good entry... as the maths evloved from the algorithm of PI, most of the information was illogic. The small remains of logic based information went to construct the universe. The illogic still exists within the IBH, and is a necessary component of PI, and more than just a place holder until the information completions sets describe an electron, for example. The illogical "foam" in the middle allows for the expression of the foams down here, such as foaming at the mouth right wingers....tomorrow's lawn sprinklers

wouldn't the length be the same 12 m in all cases, only appearing at 10m from the distortion due to the stationary observer and the observed moving relative to one another so quickly? I presume the people in the spacecraft would see a similarly distorted stationary observer, tall and squashed front to back should they look out the window...

I see the IBH as having all the possible descriptions of something we could call spiritual, and the reason we can think of the multiplicity of them, or anything else for that matter, is that it evolved and is continuing to evolve in the algorithmic number sets within it . As the sets continue to extend, this is expressed by the living universe, by what we see and who we are...and what we are capable of understanding in the logic sense, and merrily thinking in the illogical one...this places an upper limit on free will, as reality plays out on all fronts, personal and impersonal, guided by this device...so we have a endless, though not infinite source material to draw on...in short the universe is the physical representation, or dynamic memory, of mathematics...the strings of string theory are strings of numbers...all within the IBH.

so much for the how, now for the whys of the matter....the IBH "woke up" knowing everything but how it "got there", just as we wonder how we got here....I think a reasonable person, or any entity with conscious awareness would wonder. The emergence of sentience, and the universe with which to allow it, was the "device" to attain with great effort on the resultant corporeal entities, that answer....the exact definition of the hows, that is, or indeed in broad terms, who the "parents" of the IBH were...I see 2 parents and 2 grandparents. The parents are chaos (female) and logic (male). The grandparents are void (female) and the concept of 1 void (male)...the how and the why together signify meaning, or purpose...ps, I have moved to colorado, but don't know how to change the address in my profile. Help to do this would be appreciated.

I think the larger question is why would there be anything......I see the universe happening through a flow chart that begins with a concept (concept of 1 void), which fractures to chaos, which develops a stable component which allows logic or order to begin. This order evolves, allowing a new structure appearing within the chaos, that of logic basics. The chaos randomly adds information to this proto-logic as symmetries allow, and logic evolves by "pulling out" selected bits to accrue additional logic stages. The rapidly evolving logic defines the original concept (of 1 void) into the first geometric theoretical form, 1 spherical point, which is the substance of the void. This spherical void structure has, under the rubric of the now fully formed logic, an internal structure of PI. The unending, informational base that evolves the maths. These maths accrue in the void until a novel structure occurs once per universe, or universe set, the Informational Black Hole. The IBH, accrues the required information algorithms to describe all particles, fields and dimensions, as allowed under the strict rules of logic. The information from the PI also delivers illogical concepts as well as the tiny minority of logical ones, as only bare minimum of described information is "up to standards" of being self-supporting logical structures. These illogical algorithms allow anything and everything to exist theoretically, and never to appear in the universe, until the occurrence of sentience, and these concepts, such as gods, devils, flying pigs, self-assembling broken eggs, are suddenly under the access of these sentient beings, wherever they are in space. I have written this basic scenario with other and slightly differing details within the forum in speculations and other topics, and I don't want to repeat all of it as I figure you all have seen it already and wish not to hear it again...I think I know why such a chilly reception is given to the scenario, and not because it is wrong, but because it provides for a birth of maths themselves, the "god" of the hard sciences being not eternal, and to admit a pre-math domain is unsettling and incomprehensible.......but I am not assaulting it, only attempting to see how it could have occurred....and that I consider it (the maths) as a substance, or "mathematical object" that describes the universe. I do not think the maths have a death though, limiting the number of extant universes, ridding us of the infinite universes filled with doppellgangers, as once the void has matured, the universe is now "contaminated" with information as long as the algorithm of PI continues. The void requires an absence of information in my scenario to successfully evlove without "external influences". If PI is eternal than we will have only one set of universes, and a rather small finite set of a hundred or so, which may account for the dark matter gravity effects we can't see, but can detect in the galaxy rotation issue...If PI is finite, then as components within the material universe individually reach this limit, a process of de-materializaton will occur until all information is lost, then the void will once again be "clean" of external information, and the whole process repeats..with the same logic notation and numbers of discrete universes...with some sentience evolving, but not "doppelgangers" of individuals, no reincarnation of individual personalities...

I see the universe as having a necessary geometric principle, not in the complex platonic solids, but a related concept of the spheroidic shape of the original singularity having the universal property of circumference/diameter=PI. I don't see anything "sacred" about any of the "residue" of the algorithm of PI (the universe), as the mathematical object described all subjects. I see the moral neutrality of a long theoretical equation in the early stages of the scenario, until physical evolution became complex enough to allow sentience, and to extrapolate that information into meanings with our particular human "initiative"...

to propose a no end or beginning scenario is a "steady state" idea, and as such, a way of dodging the possibly uncomfortable aspects of the why anything question...

human over-population and related effects are a problem for all aspects of the world, not just human progress.

if there is essentially a computer running things, then gravitation would be a major work load. Perhaps to keep the work to a minimum, a cut-off point of the mass of material objects was determined, so that under a certain mass, the gravitational component of the bandwidth of the IBH transponder is left unused. This economy of bandwidth would give lone particles an immunity to gravity...this could be a result of the IBH not having the power to accomplish the extra load, or a sub-program that determined the smaller particles had no short term consequence on orbiting body dynamics and the mod would allow the extra bandwidth for other functions...

considering the case of the mechanism of the quantum in regards to my general thinking on the IBH scenario, I had considered that quantum fluctuations as well as virtual particle and other unstablities were part of the underlying mathematics of the "Void to BB" scenario and functioned independently. It does seem possible that if the IBH still exists and did not disappear or go into stasis after the BB event, then the material universe may have these instabilities on the small scale, and the expansion on the large scale, as a result of energy fed into the universe that was not only to afford the initial descriptions (BB), but is staying around to "keep things moving". If a person were to shield these imaginary forces from entering a region of space, quantum fluctuations and virtual particle formation might cease, giving in the case of a particle without the quantum "stimulation", an absolute position and velocity, violating that principle. I further see that after the IBH described the BB, it continued to supply the energy, in an informational sense, of maintaining the illusion of reality by supplying the completed descriptions (particles & fields) an energy source to calculate the outputs their particular math structures would code for...without the constant maintenance of the IBH, reality would revert to mere description of the same. Since the law forbidding knowledge of exactitudes of position an velocity would be violated, I conjecture that if one were to somehow shield the IBH energy from a test region in space, anything, particles or fields would de-materialize, and return at the end of the shielding experiment...acting as a sort of cloaking device..... the idea of sustained reality seems to explain why gravity straight-line forces "seem" to violate C. If everything is being "talked to" by a common structure, then the interactions that allow gravity to function as Newton states, are calculated and transmitted in accordance with the need to provide stable functioning of the orbits, with the correct information being pre-calculated and sent out in anticipation of when the signal would be slowly delivered (at C) and arrive in a "just in time" (pun intended) fashion...keeping things running smoothly...this would require a huge number-cruncher keeping the entire universe "in tune" in all concordant physical relationships. The universe is a very busy place...

thank you mr moderator....the idea of the IBH, in of course borrowed from wheeler and lately tegmark. As a furthering of the logic that extends beyond (before) the mathematical object ideas..and that there was a time before math, then logic, then chaos,to the void in that order...how to address this seemingly evident possibility seems interesting to me, and amongst other things, it solves the problem of infinites and as an unexpected bonus, (the) nothing..I see the IBH as the collection of the maths generated by PI, and the information is so vast, it amounts to a software package describing, in real time, it's own "hardware"..the universes. So I see the universes fully formed but still evolving in the details..with evolution as one of the many component sections of the IBH in at least in one of them, as I see the IBH having capacity to form other finite numbers of universes, and still occaisionaly adding them, but never an infinite amount of them with doppelangers all about.

I mean that the "strings" of string theory are composed of a series of finite number sets, describing in their formulae, a specific force or material and how or if it reacts with the other particular "strings" that come into proximity...

I must state plainly that I don't think an exploding star caused the universe, only that this IBH delivered the big bang..precisely as the mechanism behind it...more succinctly, was the BB...I agree that the idea is ridiculous and have no math to support it as the idea requires a logic-ing out what happened before the appearances of the maths, which are a "contrived substance"...this does belong in speculations, sorry. I will try to continue it there. However unlikely the prospect, it seems more likely than a common supenova in today's universe causing the BB, so I am in agreement with your overall thinking on that particular question...

I meant materials "feel" them in a terribly un-anthroprocentic way...by the forces being carried throughout the material's strings...by violations of their preferred rest relationships...therefore describing new forces to exist within adjacent string components to the extent and the spatial direction the violation calculates to be. This additional "forced sharing" of information usually not present, codes for force. The light idea needs explaining as to how it could have such an effect on it's surroundings...although I agree light is a very special "material"...

since the IBH I propose was the only "thing" in the universe, the there was no surrounding temp. to keep the information from leaking out. When I say it was a special black hole, it also had a special "explosion", one of an expression of information that described primordial physical reality. Since this proposed "download" of the accumulated memory of the IBH was informational it only became material after the exposition of the inflation was complete. As the description became described, the continuing expansion gets held to C as it fell under einstein's speed limit as determined by the logic sub-strata that formed the IBH from the chaos...

I see time having occured within any region that has changed any of the information components within it. Virtual particles give a constant flux that delivers a minimum amount of change, so that determines a base rate minimum of change. A black hole event horizon does not halt this rate, as shown by hawking radiation, so no absolute cessation of time anywhere exterior to the horizon...perhaps the singularity of a BH that is quiescent has has a temporary reduction or suspension of change, as it evaporates and pops at the end of it's lifetime...

I see the big bang as an explosion of a special kind of black hole at the end of it's life. Regular black holes blow up if the aren't fed after a long period, then go in a moderate size pop. I see the universe as having been described by something I call the IBH, or informational black hole. A black hole with so much information in it ,the information described mass, and all other physical objects and fields. The hole "leaked" information in a hawking radiation style emission, describing space/time. After a period of time, the loss of the information to describe space eventually caused a similar pop with the IBH, which of course was much larger than an ordinary black hole pop in today's universe...

what if particles have an internal clock that controls it's rate of spin and other parameters. If the act of entanglement syncs up these clocks, then isolating them will keep each clock running at the previous identical speed. Only when one particle is exposed to the outside universe will it's clock be altered, spoiling the entanglement, as the altered clock will start to shift the rate of the spin of the exposed particle...and the particles lose sync "unbeknownst" of each other and entanglement is broken with no violation of einstein's speed of information rule, or any transfer of information. The isolated particle remains steady at the pre-failure rate. I see the "strings" of numbers being the output of these clocks, one mechanism of string theory...