Ant Sinclair

Thanks for Your post Sun, with reference to the last link in Your post please see below; Reionization, 150 million to 1 billion years: The first quasars form from gravitational collapse, and the intense radiation they emit reionizes the surrounding universe, the second of two major phase changes of hydrogen gas. I believe it was H2O being formed that was this second phase of H!

THE HYDROXYL-WATER MEGAMASER CONNECTION. I. WATER EMISSION TOWARD OH MEGAMASER HOSTS Brandon K. Wiggins and Victor Migenes, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT 84604 and Joseph M. Smidt Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM, 87544 Draft version April 29, 2015 Are these not respected establishments or people then strange?

Mordred You'll know of megamasers, in particular the H2O & OH megamasers, are these not present at the beginning of star formation? Below is a paper, firstly an extract from it and then the link to it. Masers occur astrophysically and are typically associated with star formation. arXiv:1504.07194v2 [astro-ph.GA] 28 Apr 2015

Strange I'll come back to Your posts later, Please could one of the Resident Experts kindly explain on thread how gases behave in deep space - do they act similarly to how they do on Earth and Repel each other to spread evenly. And with this taking place in deep space are they likely to keep spreading out(pre-star)?

Why not? Gasses on Earth are attracted and compressed by gravity. Why wouldn't the same happen in space? mmmmm .... and conditions in space(pre-star) are just like they are when they are surrounding a huge rock - please take the time to think about what You are writing strange!!!!

No strange, what Iam suggesting is that water was formed along with H, He, Li & Be. If gases behave similarly in space as they do on Earth (partial pressure effect) then I don't subscribe to "gases falling in on themselves due to gravity to give birth to stars"! What I do believe is that water was formed at the same time along with the elements mentioned earlier, and water would amass in huge quantities, then these huge collections of water would collect tritium and deuterium into their centres, as more H2O was attracted a critical pressure at the centre of these would be reached and then BANG!

I don't fully comprehend this statement Klaynos but while You are here could You answer how gases differ in behaviour with respect to the Earth and Deep Space?

I did look at this paper strange and the first thing I spotted was its' date; 2003, since then we've had the Planck Obsevatory/COBE datas to analyse aswell as others. The paper bears no relevance to this thread. Below is an excerpt and the link below to the article from which it came. Am I correct in thinking Deuterium plays an important role in the Fusion process? Deuterium can be obtained from this depth of more than 7 kilometers below sea level under 10,000 psi of ocean pressure, replenished by nature 24 hours a day from the Central America across the vast Pacific Ocean. The amazing thing about deuterium is that at room temperatures or normal atmospheric pressure, deuterium atoms are electrolyzed naturally out of water dispelling hydrogen gas. http://deuteriumproject.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/deuterium-project-twenty-years-ago.html?m=1 Can I please ask again of the science forums experts on how gases behave in the voids of space, do they behave similarly to the partial pressures We observe on Earth or do they behave totally differently?

Why did You not just watch from the sidelines Dim and learn instead of jumping in with Your limited knowledge on this subject?

Iam not complaining about anything swansont, strange 'pulled' Me on My definitions in the Centre of a Magnet thread and I didn't notice You make a similar post to him! Strange, as You'll probably know of gas partial pressures here on Earth and how the different gases spread evenly, how would gases behave in the big void?

You know Your Nuclear Physics swansont, as in earlier post - would water be helpful in the mechanics of star formation?

Well I posted it here strange because of the vast wealth of collective knowledge that is here in these forums in hope of resolving the question of the original post "is water pre or post star". Hopefully those who are knowledglable in this area will input and help shed light to achieve an answer.

Just to get it in before Dim/Sun - No it wouldn't have put the fire out

Ok then strange seeing as You're starting to word-play let Me ask You this; If water was pre-star, would it have been 'helpful' in star formation?

An excerpt of the summary, could this imply anything Strange? "we report on the first detection of water vapor at high spectral resolution toward a dense cloud on the verge of star formation, the pre-stellar core"

Below Strange is a summary of a paper and the link to the same, please take a look; Water is a crucial molecule in molecular astrophysics as it controls much of the gas/grain chemistry, including the formation and evolution of more complex organic molecules in ices. Pre-stellar cores provide the original reservoir of material from which future planetary systems are built, but few observational constraints exist on the formation of water and its partitioning between gas and ice in the densest cores. Thanks to the high sensitivity of the Herschel Space Observatory, we report on the first detection of water vapor at high spectral resolution toward a dense cloud on the verge of star formation, the pre-stellar core L1544. The line shows an inverse P-Cygni profile, characteristic of gravitational contraction. To reproduce the observations, water vapor has to be present in the cold and dense central few thousand AU of L1544, where species heavier than Helium are expected to freeze-out onto dust grains, and the ortho:para H2 ratio has to be around 1:1 or larger. The observed amount of water vapor within the core (about 1.5x10^{-6} Msun) can be maintained by Far-UV photons locally produced by the impact of galactic cosmic rays with H2 molecules. Such FUV photons irradiate the icy mantles, liberating water wapor in the core center. Our Herschel data, combined with radiative transfer and chemical/dynamical models, shed light on the interplay between gas and solids in dense interstellar clouds and provide the first measurement of the water vapor abundance profile across the parent cloud of a future solar-type star and its potential planetary system. http://arxiv.org/abs/1208.5998

May be Tim should have been a little more precise in his words then Strange! Why is it only these four 'elements' were present pre-star then Strange?, if in fact it were only these four elements.

If He was there Dim, why wouldn't have been Li?

Water is such an important substance to Our Type of life-forms here on Earth, but exactly how long has the Old H2O been around? Was it 'created' pre or post star? If it was created pre-star, what involvement could it have had in the creation of stars if any?

There is absolutely no reason to think it can be. Ever. Your comment makes as much sense as saying: "Chocolate cannot be used for FTL communication ... YET!" I strongly disagree with Your statements here Strange, I believe using Quantum Entanglement for information exchange is a not as a complex problem as it is thought to be, and in fact the solution to using it in this way to be reletively simple! I'll try and find the time tomorrow to do a little drawing and explanation.

Strange Mondie said; "The article said "shorter-frequency". It appears to be a mix up of lower-frequency and shorter-wavelength, which have opposite meanings!" So it's hardly a normal electro-magnetic wave is it? AC are You and Strange in some Police Academy type club because You both seem to mention pink-unicorns a lot ;-) Because entanglement cannot be used for communication. By Us YET!

How do You know that some advanced race, using some unknown physics haven't achieved faster than light information exchange? Maybe with Quantum Entanglement as a candidate?

From what I have read of these signals Moontanman they seem to be originating from several distances, the link below shows a spiral galaxy PKS B1740-517 picked up by the Australian ASKAP radio telescope at approximately one of these distances of 5BLY. If these same types of signal at different distances are of an engineered type, are they part of an inter-galactic communication channel? http://focusnews.com/tech-gadgets/five-billion-year-old-signal-emitted-by-galaxy-detected/74573/

You're correct Imatfaal and I apologise, as with the Frequency Loss thread, this thread too will integrate into the H-Bonds thread. I have just returned from the far North East of Scotland and now I'm back home have commenced work on the H-Bonds thread where all of this will come-together and shed Light on the whole caboodle! http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/86147-split-from-energy-constants-were-massive-clouds-of-h-bonds-responsible-for-the-big-bang/?hl=%2Benergy+%2Bconstants

You have a very high opinion of swansont strange and We all know that he is a very intelligent man, would You put him up there with Max Planck/Albert Einstein in the intelligence stakes?