Hellbender

A "voluntary" pledge of allegiance to a country is fine. When you pledge allegiance to one religion's diety in a secular school, that is ideally unconstitutional.

You obviously went to a school were racial and doctrinal plurality was the norm. What about schools with little radical diversity? Wouldn't the uniform majority look down upon, and ostracize anyone who is different? What is it gonna take to make you realize that peer pressure occurs and is a powerful force with children and teenagers? It was for me. PS Amish kids? So I assume you were homeschooled with them in Pennslyvania? (Or maybe I don't know Amish people's culture)

Animals are not our posessions, to use for whatever purpose we see fit whenever we feel like. Thats all I have to say.

The students technically don't have to say "God", but I think you underestimate peer pressure. Anyone who is different is usually ostracized by other students. Is it that hard to just stop saying "god"? Really, people.

Weird. Makes you wonder what she said, Maybe she was afraid of being suspended again.

Creationists may behave reasonable enough, but we are talking about their debate tactics and mindset here. Most creationist arguments sound very reasonable, probably to adapt to increased awareness to the fact that they are usually lying and have no solid evidence to support their claims. A lot of creationist "evidence" contains a lot of big words and numbers to satisy the layperson that they know what they are talking about. (I can give examples) I am not saying all creationists are bad people. No one said that. Its just that most of them don't have a good grip on the rules of debate and scientific reason.

They seem reasonable.

is she still banned? I;m sorry, but I wouldn't mind if she was. Arguments stating that "youth crime is attributed to children believing they evolved from monkeys" has no place in a science forum. I was wondering why all her message said "Blank" on them. What was the purpose of this?

I never said that a student can't talk about their god or religion in school. I mean that schools are ideally under control of a secular government (remember the constitution?). Pledging allegiance, under the Judeo-Christian god, and having school activities stop and requiring students to stand and do this is unconstitutional and violates civil rights. Although many don't admit it, atheists are entitled to the same civil rights as anyone else. This statement doesn't make a lot of sense. Perhaps a format or grammatical error? Again, for like the bajillionth time, if it is voluntary, then why do some schools recite it over the loudspeakers? Why does it take place before all class activities begin? If an atheist child refused to stand I can concieve of a teacher say "oh thats silly, be a good boy, place you hand on your heart and stand". For the last time "god" denotes the Judeo-Christian god, leaving all others in the dust. It is not "reaching out to all faiths and philosophies" as you put it. Read my posts again. *Sigh* I never said that schools weren't places to learn and explore ideas. Read my posts supporting the objective teaching of world religions. Requiring students to basically acknowledge a particular religions god, and stating that this country of supposed plurality and freedom in a state (read: secular) owned school is wrong. It is a form of right-wing indoctrination if anything. Did you know the word "God" was absent from the pledge of allegiance until 1954, during McCarthy's reign of terror? (Google this fact, its true) ??? Saying these words and not the slangs for them is necessary for educating responsible teens about healthy sexual relationships. its not like they are curse words or something. Are you saying that sex education in a world of sexual liberation and sexually transmitted diseases is bad?

That was all one person? Did you imply that toni was simply another alias too? Becasue I haven't seen any posts from her in a while. I am really glad too.

Christians would, just as Muslims potentially do now with the word God. And then non-religious people like myself have a problem no matter what is said as long as it refers to a particular religion's diety (ies). Is it that much trouble just to not say God any more? Is such reference that important to Christians that it simply cannot be taken out? It bothered me becasue I felt that I was being forced to pledge acknowledge a god I didn't believe in. Even if it was voluntary, you risk getting in potential trouble with a teacher who might think everyone has to stand for it, and you risk being singled out by other students for being an outcast. So in a way, it is mandatory.

thats my point.

Doesn't surprise me. Businesses are always cutting corners to save time/money.

Dogmatism is the root of it. Here is a link that I find handy in figuring this question out. http://www.creationtheory.org/Arguments/index.php?page=index

Thats the thing. Many people who criticize evolution don't understand it. The others are just stubborn, to put it bluntly. Neither would pass a test on it. You can see from typical biblical creationist arguments that they have a basic idea, and that is enough for them to refute it.

As long as it is taught objectively, fine.

ok good point.the bible does influence s lot of people as it is the holy book of christianity, which is the dominant religion here in America. I don't know about the world, but historically, this may or not have been true. Remember there were cultures WAY before Jesus. I wasn't making fun of you by referencing this book. I was merely stating, off topic, that I enjoy this book for entertainment value.

You are entitled yo your opinion, but would you care to give a reason why the bible over the Koran, the Avesta or any other book for that matter. I Personally feel that everyone should read the "Zombie Survival Guide" by Max Brooks. What a great book.....

Very well written, Coral.

Oh. religious education is a good idea. (read my post in the politics forum thread about church and state). If you mean making religious instruction of a certain faith mandatory for all students then I would say you are a right-wing idiot. If you mean learning about world religions from a histrorical unbiased perspective, then I would say it is a good idea. I learned that stuff in high school.

I have a scientific mind. I am making a post on a science forum aren't I? the process of evolution bugs some poeple for a lot of reasons. It is pretty complex and hard for some people to grasp. It can also be cruel. I can see that if you don't have an objective, scientific mind it can seem hard to grasp, but hardly "hokey" unless you are reading about it from some creationist source who make it seem that way.

?? whats RE?

IN the U.S. some extremists want creation "science: taught as a way of furthering religious agenda. Sorry for jumping the gun of the Nazi thing, I just didn't know what you are talking about.

What was? evolution? Replace "opinion" with "ackowledgement". I'm not saying you said or implied this, but evolution is scientific fact, not a religion or opinion of any sort. The problem is that evolution was used as a tool for Hitler's racism. It doesn't mean I am a bad person and I agree with Hitler becasue he accepted (or maybe appeared to have a base knowledge to further racist sentiements) evolution. Need I say that Hitler thought that he was God's tool and thought he was on a Holy mission to eliminate Jews, etc.? Please don't equate a person who accepts scientific fact with Nazis just to make it look bad to accept evolution. By your rationale, it also makes religious people look bad becasue they believe in god, Just as the Nazis did, but it really doesn't matter.