Ten oz

I believe Joseph Smith was a real person. Numerous peers contemporary to his life wrote of him, art of his likeness contemporary to him was produced, news papers wrote of him in real time, Smith himself wrote things, his tomb exists, and etc. Loads of evidence that Smith was a real flesh and blood human.

I don't know. With the current information available I don't see how that could be determined.

That those who'd claim Jesus absolutely did or didn't exist are overstating their evidence. Obviously no one came back from the dead, walked on water, and etc. So we know much of the story of Jesus is fiction. Where (whom) that fiction came from and where the line was drawn between fiction and reality isn't something I know the answer to. Jesus having been a real life person or not a real life person seem equally as likely to me.

Who is the source, can you say without hedging with words like could've been, might've been, probably was, and etc? It is proof that Paul isn't a creditable source. Josephus wasn't contemporary to Jesus. Josephus wrote of the Death of James in context to who and what Christians were and not as a record of the existence of Jesus. Josephus also mentioned John the Baptist but not in direct association with Jesus. Proving a John the Baptist existed or that Christians existed during Josephus's time doesn't prove Jesus ever existed. It proves Christians existed and no one here is arguing they did not. I think you are attempting to read too far into the motives of different scholars in assessing their work rather than reviewing the work head on. Richard Carrier for example doesn't claim Jesus never existed. Rather he claims that the evidence that Jesus did is strong. I personally don't see any reason why someone saying "I don't know" would be viewed as being angry. As for Ehrman he has moved on the issue over time as his own religious beliefs have changed. His beliefs and not merely the evidence clearly has shaped his views. I doubt even he would deny that.

Horus, Krishna, and other gods in the virgin birth and resurrection tradition of Jesus had half siblings which play roles in their myths too.. What makes James anything more than an updated Balarama?

@Eise , Whether Paul had hallucinations or just knowingly made stuff up doesn't make any difference. Either way it means Paul isn't creditable. As you pointed out Luke, Mathew, Marc all are the same source. An anonymous one at that. They are not credible enough to serve as the foundation for proof because we do not know who they are and were not contemporary to a living Jesus. Without the word of those non-contemporary anonymous authors and hallucinating Paul their isn't a Jesus at all. Non- Gospel based evidence loosely reference Christians as a group and not Jesus individually. Nothing contemporary. We have discussed all these points before. Your points are fine but simply are not convincing to me. They relay on assumptions. No one can say if Paul lied or hallucinated. It is guess work. Jesus could have been real or could just be fiction. I don't think evidence exits to prove either to be the definitive case. You error on the side of Jesus being real as the default/traditional position unless evidence proves otherwise. I am fine with accepting that the answer isn't known.

It is believed that human life initially evolved in Africa but many animals evolved elsewhere and continue to. Even types of humans evolved after leaving Africa. Neanderthals (which were human) evolved to become Neanderthals in Eurasia for example. Evolution doesn't have a "sweet spot".

That's true.

You are free to start a thread about Black Separatists. What claim of mine are you waiting for documentation for?

Right, Jesus isn't credited with having ever wrote anything. If Jesus had written something that would be evidence he existed.

Which is not what this thread is about. The OP specifically asks if Jesus, as described in the gospels, was a real person.

Christianity existing is not proof of Jesus exiting anymore than Star Wars is proof Luke Skywalker is a real sentient human like being living in a galaxy far, far, away.

Opening sentence of the OP is below. The question isn't whether or not Christianity is real but rather Jesus as a individual flesh and blood person was.

How is this not the OP? The Gospels are the only source which describes Jesus's life. If they are not reliable to some degree than there isn't much of a case which can be made for Jesus having been a real person.

And who wrote Mathew, Mark, and Luke?

I am honestly unaware of any protests of a scale anywhere near what has taken place akin to South Carolina's State House or Charlottesville where large groups of people were injured. It is possible I am simply uninformed. Perhaps I missed it in the news cycle where Black extremists have held large events and Black extremism is a much bigger problem than I am aware of. Please provided links to the large scale protests where people have been hurt or killed and I will review them. My point is that this thread is about Nazis. They are the ones who just marched yet you are carrying on about Black extremist groups. Islamic based terrorist organizations are a problem too and have been linked to acts of violence against the LGBT community, women, and Western citizens at large. I guess we could discuss them too but that isn't what this thread is about. You are in a thread about White racists making points about Black racists. I am not purely just blaming Russia. Rather I am pointing out that there is a lot of propaganda out there related to these issues. That is just a fact. The extremist groups you listed are more or less anonymous in that you have no idea what their numbers are or who their members are. The White Nationalists this thread is discussing have numbers and faces. We see them marching in the streets. I have never seen more than a dozen New Black Panther Party members at one time. I have never seen a member of the Black Riders Liberation Party at all. I have no sense of the size of such groups, I do not see evidence of their impact, and I do not feel what I see on social media can be accepted at face value.

@mistermack Ehrman's information is good provided one accepts Paul is a creditable. The problem I have is that Paul isn't creditable. Paul claimed to have met a resurrected Jesus during a trip to Damascus. So either Paul lied or resurrection is real. Once one acknowledges that Paul's writings cannot be treated as facts unless verfied proof Jesus was real dries up. For example there is evidence Pontius Pilate was a real person but Pilate's only connection to Jesus if through Paul's writings. Once one removes Paul as creditable than the existence of Pilate has no relationship to Jesus. Then separately the story of Jesus appears to be similar to other Gods like Horus and Krishna. If we strip away the similarities what is left?

I clearly said in my post that if a group of black activists protested chanting anti Caucasian slogans I would be against that. However that isn't currently happening and as CharonY accurately pointed out your link cannot speak to the number of individuals in any of the groups listed. As for the SPLC I have no issue with them. However the attacks by Russia have not been easy to detect or stop. Facebook for example is one of the a premier technology companies in the world and they are struggling with how to handle fake information. Hundreds of billions of dollars worth of the stock has swung back and forth as they struggle. Fake information and Russian intel pretending to be BLM, Blacktivist, and etc are real problems. Perhaps it has no impact on the list the SPLC created or perhaps it might. Yesterday it was white hate groups marching in the streets. Not black ones. In the midst of a white hate group protest it feels like whataboutism to be called on to criticize black hate groups who were out marching. Soon as one of those black hate groups creates a disturbance or champions hate up and down public streets I will gladly participate in a thread criticizing them.

In my opinion a lot of people are not addressing any group or organization in particular when they criticize PC or SJWs. Rather they are merely attempting to be moderate. Slandering "both sides" as a means of faux pragmatism. If also works defensively. I often see people criticize the Clintons or Obama in advance or just aftercriticizing Trump because they anticipate being labelled a Clinton/Obama supporter in response to any Trump attack. The Trump admin has done a great job creating a sense that anyone who supported Clinton, Obama, supports BLM, or any SJW cause in bias and has a partisan tilt. People to want their opinions to be viewed as fair so they attempt to undercut the charge. Of course one can have supported whomever and still have valid criticisms. It is a paradigm which forces concessions which error towards the worst between "both sides". In all political environments post WW2 leading up to 2015 when Trump announced he was running counter protesting Nazis would have been viewed as unequivocally patriotic by both Democrats and Republican alike.

Why not compare Jesus against historical figures where there is a broad agreement about? As you are surely aware some argue that Plato and Socrates may have been the same person or than one may have been invented by the other. Also why does the figure have to have been a philosopher or religious?

We have already discussed this at length in the other thread so I won't carry on too much but none of the above are provable. Rather they are just consistencies in Jesus's story. Consistencies doesn't equal proof especially when there are more inconsistencies than consistencies. Also those are all items which are known of Jesus from religious writings for which authorship cannot be determined. If is fair to say that in your opinion the story of Jesus was probably based on a real life individual. I think it is an overstatement to say there is proof Jesus was literally a real person.

Trump has no moral compass. He is a narcissistic man with no integrity who lives in the moment. Permanence isn't relevant to him. Trump launched many insults at Kim Jong-un and then began complimenting Kim Jong-un soon as he felt it was beneficial for him to do so. Trump has no enemies or friends. People are all just a means to an end. People who are doing what he wants are good and people who aren't are bad. It is that simple.

In as linked in a previous post some of the organizations claiming to be led by Black SJW are actually just fakes designed to create division. The numbers may or may not be on the rise. In 2018 when anyone can claim to be anything on social media and funds can be anonymously moved around via bitcoin and other digital currency it is hard to know what's real and what is fake. Loops are created throughout social media to generate traffic. Somethings a single person fronts as multiple organizations. That said groups showing up in person chanting "Jews will not replace up" in tangible and can't be ignored. Once Black groups start popping up around the country chanting anti Caucasian slogans I will become just as considered about Black Separatist Groups as I am about What Nationalists. Hate speech is hate speech and none should be tolerate.

I understand but but Koti also called them infantile and hypocritical.

You list BLM, LGBT, and SJW. Only BLM is a specific organization. LGBT and SJW are just titles you can potentially be using to describe any number of organizations. I have no way of knowing which. As for BLM they are for criminal justice reform and equality at large. I am not sure what you find hypocritical about that? I think it is important to keep in mind BLM has been specifically targeted by conservative groups and Russia who spread disinformation about them. Much of the uglier things people associate with BLM is purely propaganda. Lots of fraud going on regarding BLM.