KenBrace

As far as I am concerned Jesus Christ is no different than Homer, Nebuchadnezzar, or Genghis Khan. They were real figures that walked the earth. They were not, however, gods or the son of a god.

Which side of the fence are you on?

He is neither. He was an ordinary man like Muhammad or the Buddha that had a unique message and inspired people. He started a following and was executed for disturbing the peace. His followers viewed him as a martyr and kept the new belief system going. It became an established religion during the time of emperor Constantine.

I don't have a problem with a belief in God that is like Einstein's or is a deist view. What I don't like is the fundamentalist religious views. People need to snap out of it and stop believing that Jonah lived in a whale's belly for three days and God created the universe 6,000 years ago with magic.

Of course Jesus was a real person. The only thing that is false information are the miracles he was said to have performed. He wasn't the sun of God and he didn't raise people from the dead. I am confident however that, like Muhammad, Jesus was a real man that walked the Earth 2,000 years ago.

This is why I hate religious fundamentalism and the indoctrination of children mentality that it incorporates. The middle east needs more atheists.

This might shed some light... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EilZ4VY5Vs If my understanding of physics is correct then space is indeed something though not exactly what you normally think of as "something". You have to abandon all Newtonian preconceptions and way of thinking when dealing with quantum mechanics.

C# is an extremely powerful, all-purpose language. I would definitely learn it first. You can do anything with it.

According to modern string theory there are 11 dimensions.

Sperm cells are alive. So technically life begins before conception. If you are talking about when "human" life begins, then I would have to say at the moment of conception.

That's something I'd be interested to ask a biologist. From what I understand, sometimes a mutations original benefiet was different and more simple that it's use now. I find it kind of far fetched for such a complex system to have randomly evolved in one mutation. I could be wrong though. I would presume that the original mutation was much more simple served a slightly different purpose than it does today. Over time it would have grown in complexity and taken on new functions and abilities.

Yes, but over thousands if not millions of years. Based on my understanding of evolution it isn't possible for a brand new, fully fuctional system to simply mutate within one generation. It takes thousands of generations for such things to evolve. I appreciate your thinking though. If it is possible, it would be a reasonable theory to explain it without yin and yang qi.

I quoted the wiki to show that it's not a reasonable explanation. It's a complicated system specially in electric eels. There's no way a human was randomly born with such a mutation. That's the way it seemed to me at least. I'm not an expert on anatomy and electric eels. Correct me if I'm missing something. He said "Greg is the first guinea pig. But he's uncomfortable about showing anything at all. A plausible explanation of the shock at 0:50 is that the table/ bed in the background is the other connection and you could obviously hide electrical gear in that - it's not examined in detail so schanning Chang with a metal detector is a red herring there. I didn't quite understand what you meant there. Were you saying that the shock could have come from the bed/table that Roger was touching? If so I don't really see this as a practical explanation. The guy would have felt the shock coming from the table. You can also see by the way he jolted his arm that it came from where he was touching (the guy's belly). If not could you expound a little? And again, a simple power supply and switch hidden in a shoe could drive the LED- you don't need a lot of current to get a visible glow- less than a milliamp will do it. The only problem with this is that Chang wasn't wearing shoes and was checked with a metal detector.

The electric eel has three abdominal pairs of organs that produce electricity: the main organ, the Hunter's organ, and the Sach's organ. These organs make up four-fifths of its body, and are what give the electric eel the ability to generate two types of electric organ discharges: low voltage and high voltage. These organs are made of electrocytes, lined up so a current of ions can flow through them and stacked so each one adds to a potential difference. When the eel locates its prey, the brain sends a signal through the nervous system to the electrocytes. This opens the ion channels, allowing sodium to flow through, reversing the polarity momentarily. By causing a sudden difference in electric potential, it generates an electric current in a manner similar to a battery, in which stacked plates each produce an electrical potential difference. In the electric eel, some 5,000 to 6,000 stacked electroplaques are capable of producing a shock at up to 600 volts and 1 ampere of current (600 watts). It would be extremely unlikely for such a shock to be deadly for an adult human, due to the very short duration of an eel's discharge (<2 ms). Electrocution is due to current flow; the level of current would be fatal in humans depending on the path the current takes through the human body, and the duration of current flow. Heart fibrillation (which is reversible via a heart defibrillator) can take place from electrical currents ranging from 70 to 700 mA and higher, provided the current flows for more than about 30 ms. -Wiki Stun Gun Explanation This could possibly be a decent rebuttal but when viewing the footage closer and observing the demonstrations I personally don't see how it would be possible. Dr. Nelson was shocked while touching his belly (both Chang's hands were completely away). Also take into consideration that he isn't always "shocking" people. Several times he demonstrated a constant current which showed through continuous involuntary muscle contractions. Also... A stun gun is a popular electric shock device used to immobilize an attacker without causing serious or permanent injury. They can be used as a deterrent to temporarily disable an attacker and provide you with a window of opportunity to escape to safety. Using a stun gun requires you to be within arms length of the attacker. You must touch the person with the stun gun to shock them. http://www.womenonguard.com/-strse-template/stun-dsh-gun-dsh-info/Page.bok Taking that into consideration I do not see how he could practically have used a stun gun to perform the demonstrations. Watch the video below (short version) and see if it looks like he is using a stun gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY5UhN4iyEM (0:40) (0:50) (1:50) - I do not see how he could have pulled off those feats with a stun gun.

It's not dreaming. It's directly experiencing something while completely alert and awake. And how would you propose that he generate the electricity to start with?

Yes he is definitely still alive. It's just that someone observing him with a EEG, REG, etc. would consider him dead. There is a chance. However I have gotten close and because of what I experienced there's not much doubt left in me. Once again you missed my point. You directly expereience your keyboard right? So if you directly experience yin and yang qi, then you know it exists for the sam reason you know that your keyboard exists. I've watched that video several times and the guy gives a false rebuttal to Chang's electrical demo. It is obvious that he and you know absolutely nothing about eletricity. Why can't you seem to get this through your head? I've said it several times. THE CLAIM THAT JOHN CHANG COULD HAVE BEEN USING AN ELECTRICAL DEVICE TO GENERATE A STATIC CHARGE AND PERFORM THE ELECTRIC SHOCK DEMO IS COMLETELY FALSE AND ONLY SHOWS IGNORANCE ABOUT ELECTRICITY AND NEGATIVE ION GENERATORS! There is ABSOLUTELY no valid explanation in existence that explans Chang's electrical demo with using trickery. NONE!

You don't seem to have read the previous pages of the thread. A man whose claims have been largely debunked by a conjurer. WRONG. No one has debunked anything. The best explanation by skeptics is "He's using trickery. We just can't figure it out." Every other rebuttal I've ever heard has shown nothing but ignorance about how electricity and devices work. So, no real evidence then. I provided evidence. Go back and read it. What, I can slap someone round the head with i? I can show the receipt where I paid for it? Or were you just saying something which is obviously not actually true? There are words for people who do that. No. It's not something you're proving to someone else. I was talking about personal experience. In the same way that you directly experience your keyboard, you can directly experience yin and yang qi.

What do you mean? Breathing slows down to less that one breath per minute, pulse goes so low that it can hardly even be detected, and brainwave activity flatlines. I am going by what was taught by Chang and what I have heard from students. It isn't a matter of coming back from the dead. It's observing the spirits of dead people and what is left of them. Therefore you know what is awaiting you at death since you've seen what happens to others after their death. The only evidence for yin is the fact that Chang demonstrates it and was tested by skeptics which gives him validity. During the beginning meditation you can directly experience yin so you know that it exists for the same reason that you know your keyboard exists. The same goes for spirits.

Supposedly during the deepest states of meditation one is able directly experience the yin aspect of reality which is where sprits reside. You can directly see what is left of people after their death and therefore know what is awaiting you after your death. Think about this. The idea is that during a normal waking state you are experiencing your "yang" consciousness. During unconscious sleep you experience yin. However since you are unconscious, you don't really experiencing anything. The idea behind the meditation is that you consciously fall asleep. Or in another way of saying it, you experience the yin aspect of reality with your yang consciousness and vise vera. This is why it is referred to as the "borderline state between waking and sleeping". You are asleep and yet awake at the same time. In essense what happens is your body falls asleep, while your mind remains awakeand alert. The deeper you go the slower your breath, pulse, and brainwave activity become. Eventually it reaches a point that would pretty much be considered 'dead' in a hospital. However even though your body has gone into a comma like state, your mind is still 100% awake and alert. This is where you have a direct connection to both yin and yang aspects of reaity and where real neigong can begin. It's way easier said than done though. I've meditated for longer than 5 hours straight at times and still don't make it deep enough. This is why most systems of qigong/neigong (not really neigong imo) are a joke. Just a bunch of useless arm movements, breathing exercises, etc. in a normal everyday state of consciousnes. Real training requires an incomprehensibly deep state of meditation where the body's functions slow down to almost death but the mind stays fully alert and awake. At this point you have a direct connection to the atomosphere of yin and yang qi around you and are able to work with it like a tangible physical substance. With pin point, lazer like focus you are able to direct the energy into specific points where it can be stored.

Fair enough. I think I see where you are coming from. One thing I would like to point out though is that all I saw there were articles by PhDs who were trying to prove the existence of homopathy, rekei, etc. It wasn't a case of an individual claiming certain ablities and a group of skeptics coming in to debunk him. He was checked with a metal detector stripped to a shirt, and bare foot. There is no known way that he could have performed the feats he did while under these conditions. How is this not worth looking in to? Forget the articles, studies, charts, etc. and think of it more like what Randi does. It was a simple case of three skeptics coming in and attempting to debunk a claim. The only known explanation for his feats via trickery were eliminated by their testing. This isn't the same as all of the articles and studies you gave above. The only reson I gave the credintials of the skeptics is so you know who they are. If you look into it you will also find that they are not involved in any other similar studies, websites, organisations, etc. They have nothing to do with any of that. They aren't like the PhDs you listed above who have delved their lives into researching homopathy or whatever. I haven't seen even one article or study posted by any one of the three individuals that scrutinized John Chang. The origianal topic was "Do you fear death?" but then after giving my stance someone asked me what I plan on doing about the situation I'm in. So I answered. Then people started commenting about how it was obviously a hoax, scam, fraud, etc. So I defended my position. The ablilities demonstrated by Chang are a biproduct of the storage and compression of energy within the bio energetic field of humans. According to Chang this "evolution of the spirit" allows one to retain full consciousness, memory, etc. after death rather than becoming an empty, shelled out, husk of what was. Like the black-box flight recorder of an airplane or a shaddow. If you go deep enough into the meditation taught in the first stage of the training, things like this can be witnessed first hand. No faith required. The claim that this is possible via profondly deep meditation isn't very believable though I guess. The only reason I am willing to give it a shot is because of the evidence given for Chang's ablities. Since in my mind he has a lot of validity provided by the scientsits who tested him, his teachings are also worth looking in to. I haven't yet directly experienced the deepest state of meditation that is ideal for real neigong training and is where a glimps into the afterlife can occur, but I have gotten close and know from personal experience that the meditation for the first level of training is indeed valid.

I don't really know of any other claims besides tummo monks, Wim Hof, and maybe a few others that were recoreded on film, checked with a metal detector, stripped to a shirt, etc. and were still able to perform their feats. Pretty much everything else is just a sea of rumors, hearsay, and claims. You provided an example of a "scientist" that supports a "scientific" astrology research group but nothing solid has been demonstrated, recorded, scrutinized, and come through clean. Just a random PhD that believes in astrology. Keep in mind that the scientists who tested Chang were not interested in researching of such things, had no belief in such ablitiies, and were of the mindset that they would debunk him rather quickly. The PhD that runs the astrology thing believes in astrology and is promoting it. She wasn't skeptical, then after testing found astrology to be legit. Completely different scenario. Could you please provide me with a tiny fraction of the "millions" of people demonstrating Chang like abilities after being tested by a group of scientists? I will reconsider my thoughts if you are able to.

But there is a difference between God and Chang. "God" has never stepped forward and allowed himself to be scrutinised by scientists and checked fraud. In fact God, in the Christian sense, has never stepped forward to even prove his existence period. Chang however was scrutinised by the president of the Mind Science Foundation in Texas, a Physicist from Albert Einstein Univeristy in New York, and a swedish medical doctor. And it's not that you don't have enough time. The fact that you have time to spend commenting on internet forums shows that. It's rather that, like you said, the most popular ideas of the time rule your world view so you are not interested in anything new. Even if it has valid evidence to support it. You are the same as the people that laughed at Galileo, Thomas Edison, Columbus, etc. History has shown that the popular consensus isn't always right.

Most likely you practiced one of the thousands of bogus neigong/qigong systems that do nothing and go no where. Just a bunch of spiritual entertainment that does absolutely nothing real besides some breathing exercises and useless arm movements. Please provide me with more videos where a man is able to demonstrate abilities while being scrutinised by scientists. I am only aware of a few. There may be lot's of bogus science journals but I provide the creditials for the people that tested Chang (Cathrine N. Cooke, Dr. Roger Nelson, Dr. Gregory Simpson). These people aren't random dumb wads that claim to be scientists. They are real scientsits, professors, medical doctors, etc. that were just as skeptical as you. He was checked with a metal detector and was barefooted which rules out the explanation of him using an electrical device. Let me ask you this. What would distinguish a claim from the rest of the other non-sense? A study by Harvard University and an article by Stephen Hawking?

This is exactly right. There are millions upon millions of BS claims that people makes anywhere and everywhere, all the time. You hear about a kid coming back from heaven, a guy remembering his past lives, a girl levitating in a Russia, etc. Nothing but absurd, rediculous, completely deluded, newage & occultist non-sense as far as the eye can see. The difference is when someone comes forward and is tested by scientists. This gives them validity imo and makes their claim worth looking in to. The problem is that if it is real and scientific, it's reputation is ruined due to the mountains of garbage everywhere else. No one takes anything of a spiritual nature seriously now days and that's why. It's not really spiritual though. It's as scientific as eating healthy food to live a longer life. Nothing supernatural about it. There are only a few people that have demonstrated their claims under controled conditions. Wim Hof and Tummo Monks are one of the only few examples. Below is an additional study that I think is interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1353653 Department of Physiology, School of Medicine, Showa University, Tokyo, Japan. Detection of extraordinary large bio-magnetic field strength from human hand during external Qi emission. This magnetic field strength was greater than that of normal human bio-magnetism by 1,000 times at least. After my life is over, nothing else will matter. Death being the end isn't the problem. It's if death is the beginning.

Excellent post. Voted up. Denial is never an option in my opinion. We should always be searching for and open to the truth regardless of how bad it may be. "Can dirt feel disappointed?" My thoughts exactly. If it turns out that there is not afterlife, then I've lost nothing. If however I was right, I will have gained everything. (1) He convieniantly forgot to include the part about the metal detector. (2) This guy obviously knows nothing about electricity. In order for a device to be able to build up a static charge there needs to be a ground. There would have to have been an insulator between the ground and Chang's body. The fact that he is barefoot shows that he is not using an ion generator or some other electrical device. People, Please do your research before claiming to debunk something. I would also ask that you not "forget" to include valuable aspects of data that show validity (e.g. the metal detector). "Magic" doesn't exist. Energy and physics do. The problem is our current knowledge of the universe. Do you seriously think that science has reached such a high level that we no longer make new and game changing discoveries??? Try explaining black holes, dark matter, and slowing down time to a 15th century scientist. You must admit that the ability to slow time itself would have been considered magic 500 years ago. Yet here we are today with mountains of scientific evidence showing that with enough speed, it is possible.