KenBrace

Nothing in science is EVER 100% proven.

Only because the Blair brothers published the footage without his approval. That's not how the Randi challenge works. In order for an individual to even be tested by Randi on the show they have to pass the pre-exam. This is done privately and out of the public eye. A waver also must be signed saying that you are not allowed to sue him. If you demonstrate real abilities in the pre-exam all he has to do is deny your application and you loose. He isn't required by law to give you the million bucks or allow you on the show. You can't file a law suite either. Chang made his money as a business partner to a large corperation. He never one charged a dime for his healings, nor accpeted any donations. It seems you are making claims without even researching. I think this shows that you aren't even interested in anything that defies your strict worldview even when scientific evidence is present. I don't expect anyone to simply believe what I have posted without reasearch (that would show a naieve individual) but isn't it worth looking in to? If something has gained credibility, how is it not worth researching? The only reason I can think of is if you have an unchanging, dogmatic worldview that doesn't change no matter what. Like religion. You can throw mountains of scientific evidence in the face of most religious people and it do absoutely nothing. It is because their world views are set in stone and no matter how much evidence is presented, they will wave it off and trust only in the Bible. And again there is a link in my signature to a thread containing more scientific evidence for such ablities and claims.

Chang is a self-made millionaire. He has no interest in Randi's million bucks. And fame is the exact opposite of what he wants. Also, do you seriously think Randi would let someone win the million dollars? He's making a fortune off the whole thing. Give me one reason why that guy would have an interest in being a hoax. He never once charged anyone for healing and obviously wasn't interested in fame due to the fact that he didn't even want the original footage to be public to start with. If he were interested in fame he would have come to the US and advertised. A hoax requires metal. You can't genrate electricity of any kind without the use of metal somewhere. Chang was checked with a metal detector. Of course that doesn't mean that he was proven to be authentic but it makes the chances of him being a hoax a heck of a lot slimmer so it's worth looking in to. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ There is another thing that you guys fail to see or just don't know about electricity. In order for a static charge to build when using a device, there has to be rubber separating the user from the ground. Chang was barefoot. There is simply no way that he could have built up some static charge using a device (not to mention the fact that the device would be metal). He was tested by scientists and medical doctors, stripped to a shirt, checked for metal, and still demonstrated his ability. I guess there is a 0.1% chance that he was using fraud but given the amount of evidence for his validity, how is this not worth looking in to??? "The device needs a grounding wire in order to work. If the person using the device is not separated by the rubber of their shoes a static charge will not build up and they will not be able to shock someone. This difference can easily be seen when a Qi user can produce Qi effects while sitting, or touching the person with another part of their body." -Charles Crawford, Electrical Engineer (Over 10 years experience)

Fair enough. No way this could get past the metal detector and plain sight though (I'm sure it is a little larger than the original device of course)... To be honest the thing that convinced me the most is after investigating the books written by people that went out and became students of the guy. I know the family of one of the guy's and hear stories that his son has told over the phone. Spoken with students about what they've experienced and seen. etc. Here is an interview with a man that watched the original documentary in the 80s and saught Chang out. After finding him he was taken in as a student and continued the training until his recent death last year. Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4

Magic doesn't exist. Physics does. There is (private) footage of Chang shocking over 100 people at a time. This isn't some weak, static electricity thing. He also performed other demos besides the electric shock but those weren't performed while under the scrutiny of scientists. Demonstrations Performed In Front Of Scientsts: Electrical shock Uncontrollable movements caused by electrical current through muscles Lighting a lightbulb Demonstrating electrical current with a volt meter Other Demonstrations Caught On Film: Catching a rifle pelet Lighting paper on fire Healing Laurn Blair's eye Shocking Over 100 People All At Once And again there is a very nice list of scientific evidence for real abilities in my signature. You are welcome to check it out and let me know what you think. Or you can just ignore it because it goes against your dogmatic worldview.

Because I'd be deluding myself. It's like a pack dogs running towards you and instead of looking for a nearby tree and making a run for it, you just sit there and be content.

Nah. You can just be content if you want but I've found something real and I'm going to stick with it. I'm a skeptic but not a brickwall with an unchanging, dogmatic worldview that can't be altered even with scientific evidence. I am willing to investigate anything that has valid evidence to support it.

Religion and faith isn't a path anyone should take. Something comes next even if it's complete non-existence. Based on the vast research I've done into Mo Pai and the personal experimentation I've put in, I am pretty much convinced of its legitimacy. The problem isn't really non-existence. The problem is a bad existence after death. Preventing that is my goal. If it doesn't exist to start with then I still achieved my goal. On the other hand just sitting around and not caring is the worst option imo. Right, sorry I forgot about that. The process behind an electric eel's electric shock is a complex process though. Not something that could just mutate randomly. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-electric-eels-gene/ Yes, what Chang does is something anyone can develop (though being able to shock ppl isn't really the point).

Any explanations for his feats considering their scrutiny? Also like I said, this doesn't have to be taken by faith. You can experience things for yourself if you care enough to investigate scientifically scrutinized claims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BjGWLJNPcA What scientists are finding is veering towards the theory I mentioned but it's still mostly a theoretical view of reality without much evidence yet to directly back it up.

There is a difference between supernatural speculation and physical reality. You can do what you wish, but for me I am not simply satisfied that one day I will die and ave no clue what comes next. The only thing worthwhile that I've found and that is worth looking into is the Mo Pai school and what it teaches. It doesn't have to be taken by faith though. It can be experienced first hand. I completely understand your skepticism since there is nothing but "supernatural" hogwash as far as the eye can see. If a person is scrutinized by scientists and is shown to have validity, then it is worth looking into in my opinion. Not supernatural. Just not yet understood by modern science.

If the OP is talking about external senses then you guys are correct. I person would still be a completely aware, conscious, thinking individual that could imagine things and think.

The Magus of Java, Neikung, & Seeking the Master of Mo Pai are books written by people that went to Indonesia and became students of Chang. Might be worth skimming through if you're interested. Here's a link of an online PDF for one of the books... http://www.sacred-magick.com/free/files/The%20Magus%20of%20Java.pdf If it's a hoax and all made-up then yes, it's supernatural. However if it does exist, then there is a scientific and physical reason for it to happen. Think about the extremely complex computer programming, rocket science, supersonic jet technology that is a reality today. 1000 years ago people would have labeled it as "supernatural" simply because they don't understand it. However it is only their knowledge to understand it that is lacking, not the physical phenomenon.

The energetic evolution of the spirit to retain full consciousness after death. That's how this is related to death and the afterlife.

I mean, come one. Look at this sh*t... It's everywhere. Nothing but miles and miles of "supernatural" BS. What happens after death is related to the spirit and consciousness itself. After investigating the case presented in the video I posted, I changed my view on things and believe that what the guy teaches might actually have some validity. What I've experienced in the beginning meditation also continues to confirm what is taught by John Chang which is directly related to death and the afterlife (if there is one).

I couldn't agree more. "Supernatural" doesn't exist. For anything that does exist there is a logical, scientific, and physical reason for them to happen. Otherwise they wouldn't happen. Electricity would have been considered supernatural by people in living 1000 years ago when in reality there is a scientific and physical reason for the way that electricity works. I believe it's the same way in this case. If what Chang demonstrated is indeed real, then there is a physical process that goes on to cause it. I honestly HATE having to use words like "spirit", "qi", "yin & yang" etc. because of the truckloads of newage and occultist BS that completely suffocates and destroys the seriousness of anything of this nature but I can't think of any other words to use.

Here's the thing. Without some way to sense something, then you wouldn't be aware of anything. He must have a way to sense his thoughts and what he imagines. You must remember that the root of all senses is the brain. There is a section in the brain for each sense. Even when you are dreaming or daydreaming, you are still using the parts of your brain that interpret senses, regardless of whether the info is coming from stored up memory or external senses. I suppose we should clairify whether the OP is referring to not having eyes, a nose, ears, nerves, and taste buds or not having the parts of the brain that interpret the five senses. Big difference. If the five external input organs were removed, a person could still sense and think because of the stored up info in his memory. If the very sections of his brain that created senses were removed then you have a different story altogether.

He was tested for trickery. The only way that he could have performed the electical demo with trickery is with an elctrical device (those type of machienes didn't even exist in the 1980s), but he was checked for metal and stripped to a shirt. An electrical device like that would also have to have a ground. There is simply no way that he could have slipped a device past the metal detector and plain sight. The demonstrations mean nothing besides what they represent. The entire idea behind what Chang does is the storing up of bioenergy to aledgedly escape the grasp of death. The idea is that when a person dies, their spirit is stripped of its individuality and human consciousness and becomes somewhat like a zombie. Like the blackbox flight recorder of an airplane. All that is left is an empty shelled out husk of what was. By storing and fusing yin and yang qi individuality and real consciousness is preserved after death. I don't have any evidence for this besides the fact that Chang's demonstrations were supported by scientists and what said above is what Chang teaches. None of this has to be taken by faith or scientific evidence though. It can be witnessed frist hand in the meditation that is taught in the first stage of the training.

No evidence for the 6 dimensional time theory. It's just a theory at the moment.

We don't know for sure. There must be an external world of some kind because there has to be something that is feeding us information.

Meditation can make you more aware of your internal self because you are able to quiet your mind and focus but you still have senses. It's just that they're focussed internally rather than on the outside world. Aware of what?

Magic is one thing, scienctific evidence is another. John Chang was scrutinised and tested by a group of scientists and medical doctors: Cathrine Nixon Cooke (President of the Mind Science Foundation), Roger Nilson (M.D. Orthopedic Surgeon Sweden), and Dr. Gregory V. Simpson (Ph.D. Biophysics Albert Einstein College of Medicine). He was stripped to a shirt and checked for metal. After passing all their scritiny they took him to a randomly chosen hotel room a few miles away and tested him there. He passed those tests as well. Magic is for deluded morons and peaced out, newage hippies. Scientific evidence is a different story. I'll post a link to a thread where I summarized the evidence in more detail in my signature for anyone who is interested.

I just listed the first few that came to my head and then searched up a list of famous scientists for the rest.

Everyone's body dies in the same way. It is the spirit that matters. What do I intend to do about it?

Have you ever thought that maybe there is a way to find out and maybe even do something about it?