Awe

Thanks for the reply. Although you can make a logical argument for the necessity of revenge I'm speaking of revenge in a more ideal manner. Even though revenge is necessary we shouldn't enjoy it. As I stated before revenge is illogical in the sense that we have no control at all over the way we are and even what we can control is nothing but a result of our genetic make up or our beliefs which are largely determined by our environment. So how can you desire revenge toward someone who's just like you. We all act based on what we think is moral and I don't think that's a good reason to desire harm upon another human being.

Great response I had no idea. That's just beautiful. But what do you think about revenge? Is it logical based on what science has discovered?

I don't think you should feel satisfaction. There is no action that is worthy of revenge. Either way you shouldn't feel good that he died. We all do what we do because of an underlying religion, ideology or maybe some mental disorder. It's never the person's fault. They are simply acting based on what they have retained throughout life or something they were born with. Most people tend to forgive another once the other person apologizes, so why not do the same all the time? I'm sure that if that person saw things the way you did a while after hurting you they would apologize. It would seem kind of inconsistent to say something like he's just a kid, he didn't know any better. We act like adults just stop learning new thing and developing ideologically. For this simple reason I believe revenge stems out of an uncritical view of reality.

For a while I have thought about humanity using scientific understanding and reason and I have come to the conclusion that all human beings are determined. Think about it, everything thing about us is caused by something else. Our genes, our environment all dictate who we are and will become. So where is there room for free will? What can you point to which will prove that we possess free will? Of course determinism has vast implications on the way view we our lives, I know from experience. One thing that drastically changes is our view on revenge. How can you blame someone for being exposed to certain beliefs and then acting based on his understanding or lack there of? Either way you look at it there's really no way you can logically justify revenge. For example, someone who harms your family does it because he lacks empathy, therefore understanding or has a chemical imbalance in his brain. But what about people who know that what they are doing is wrong and still do it? Can you hate them? This also doesn't logically indicate revenge since the person was just existing and how can you harm this person for just existing? Can you prove that we have free will? Either way comment below with your thoughts.

I dont like to use the word belief because people usually think I'm speaking of religion only but I see it makes no sense to use truth lol thanks for pointing that out.

I agree and however I don't think you need a health reason for doing so but instead you can look at it logically because Logic usually determines and trumps emotions. We can feel emotions out of irrational poorly thought out ideas or observations which is useful from an evolutionary perspective. For example revenge, someone harms you, you harm back. However there are two conflicting sides to humans. That animalistic drive for instant reaction lacking sufficient contemplation and then there's rational behavior. We find many examples of this animalistic behavior in our most prevalent forms of art such as movies and books. Some guy kills someone close to the main character and the protagonist devotes his entire life to achieving revenge. However it's pretty difficult to determine whether revenge is justified unless one looks at it from a scientific perspective. Asking questions like what are humans? What drives humans? Do humans intentionally harm? These questions don't require some god to answer especially in the age of information however so many skip over this part and got straight to revenge. To summarize its easy to just act based on our emotions especially when those emotions are conjured from misunderstanding or lack of understanding however being that we desire to know truth we must be critical of our beliefs and understanding.

Well yeah that's obvious. But think about how this affects the way you treat others and how it affects your morality not so much the judicial system.

What i mean by you cant blame them is that it would make no sense to take your anger out on that person, just as it make no sense to harm someone out of anger or revenge because they didn't know what you know or see things the same way you do. For example a Psychopath may commit terrible crimes but that's only because that is the way he or she is, just as most people don't get revenge upon animals for their lack of understanding we shouldn't get revenge upon another human being. Also this idea that humans somehow know better is non sense. Just as animals are controlled by certain factors so are humans. What I'm trying to say is that our genes, environment and truth (what we know to be truth which may not be correct so it's essentially what we believe to be true) all determine the way we behave but of course one should be held accountable to their actions in the sense that everyone has to follow the law. However everyone should understand that even though someone commits a crime it's usually because they see no wrong in what they are doing aside from society telling them it's immoral. By immoral I mean society disproves but even so they see what they are doing as moral whether that be because of a chemical imbalance in their brain or their beliefs (not always religion). So how can you wish harm upon someone who doesn't see what you see, someone who doesn't think in the same manner as you or even someone who's biologically different? It all boils down to predetermined sacks of different substances and materials. If anger motivates us to harm someone who intentionally hurt us then by definition the only person you can truly be vengeful toward should be some sort of eternal god. While I do enjoy philosophy I'm making an assumption here and that assumption is that our sense or science allow us to understand the world around us in other words we can achieve truth through the scientific process. Of course I must eventually address this but for the time being I'm putting it aside which is why I call it an assumption. If scientific understanding can help us understand what is and isn't true then we should be using it as a way of defining our morality. This is the reason why I use scientific understanding to define morality. It's better to rely on science then on pure speculation wouldn't you agree?

I have thought about the usefulness of science for a while now and I finally found my answer a couple months back. You must use science to define morality. What i mean by this is incorporating science into your morality is like relying on eyes to understand what's in front of you. For example I'm pretty sure most including yourself would agree that punishing someone for something they did not intentionally do would be morally wrong. If this premise is correct then shouldn't this also apply in other examples? Humans truly have no control over their actions in the sense that nature or our genes determine the way we behave and also including what we know as truth. If I hurt someone because I think what they did was wrong how am I any worse than someone who does volunteer work and helps the poor? We both are led by truth down a path. Even if I am morally wrong how can you blame me for what I have done? It's not like I knew, because if I did I would be forced to change my behavior. So this cycle of revenge we see portrayed in public art like a movie should stay where it belongs in a make believe reality. This is just one example of how science can help us define our morality. Maybe just like me you feel the need to be truly moral.