J.C.MacSwell

Not suggesting less blame to Trump, but say, additional to Trump, and finally some to the Democrats as well? If only for goading Trump and leaving him no "egomaniacal room" whatsoever?

Easy to say that. What if you had been struggling with your bills, through no fault of your own, prior to the shutdown?

OK. The cost is 5.7. My question is what is the value of it being built. Assuming it is less valuable than 5.7. Does it have any value whatsoever? Is it truly a liability...have negative value? Any guesstimates? I suspect few would even hazard one...because the shutdown is all about posturing and politics...and little to do with the economics

I don't know. This was one of the reasons I asked what the value was of 5.3 Billion cost of "wall". There seems to be some consensus here that the money could be better spent. So is it worth only 3 billion? 1 Billion? Truly a negative number? (using the odd assumption that it was evil, racist or immoral) What is the net cost vs value of giving Trump 5.3 Billion toward "wall". how does that compare to the ongoing cost of the shutdown? I really don't have much more to add than "split the difference" and get on with governing, or either side should yield and get on with it, but I do think any of those options are better than doing nothing and allowing the shutdown to continue, which is only better if building a "wall" is worse. So I don't know. I don't know if anyone here can reasonably answer the question either. "What is the value of the building of the wall?" (5.3 cost of it, not wall across the whole border...which was silly 3 years ago, and remains so today) If the question does not matter then I am of the opinion that it is just a game for both sides (not suggesting equally, so spare me the "false equivalency") So there's my $0.02...and I admit it is overpriced....but you asked

It shouldn't be. But if someone accused you of something I think it is fair for you to reply to it. You seem to forget how recently you did just that (hint: climate change)

I didn't suggest it was. Unless you just crawled out from under a rock I don't believe I need to give you any real examples.

It is hardly irrelevant to responding to an accusation that I'm on the far right. You don't seem to consider yourself a racist at home in San Diego. Are you one when you visit Mexico? How about if you visited Australia? Outside of obvious jokes, my statements reflect my views,. Any questions I ask may not. I'm not questioning anyone here with regard to far right positions. I simply don't recognize anyone here as being that.

If two parties went at each other like the 2 in the US have lately, the third party would have a field day...and rightfully so.

Frankly, I think it is silly considering me on the "far right", regardless of which countries issues we are discussing. Anyone doing so honestly, is so far left that they have taken on some extreme right values IMO, and are unable to recognize a moderate view. I certainly agree with that. Yes. I don't fully agree.

Yes. I'm less certain of the bold, but would agree. I would also agree with the Democrats allowing some concessions to Trump, for the purpose of breaking the stalemate.

I might agree with it as well. Maybe I do "represent" the far right to many here. In Canada I am generally considered a Liberal, but have also vote Conservative and a couple of times NDP. While growing up, all 3 of these parties were considered Left of the US Democratic party.

I don't think it is the obvious solution. I think Trump has somewhat painted himself into a corner, and I don't think the Democrats are very anxious to give him much room. I have nothing against him simply signing off on it. I just don't think it will happen in that manner.

I think a lot of Leftists might agree with that.

Under that definition I have no bias...but I assure you by proper definition I do.

It's both actually. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

...and it would be much easier to see that, if there was less news with such obvious bias.

I essentially asked to what extent it was true with regard to elite work positions, and you did not answer. Unless you think it is of no significance whatsoever (I very well suspect that's the case with you, but am of course not certain), what makes you think I even weigh it more heavily than you do? If you interpret everything I say based on your perception of my views, my gender, or my race, you are being a bigot, sexist or racist. For what it's worth, I would not have directed that question to someone I perceived as an outright sexist, lest they get the wrong idea.

They said description, and characterization of documents, was not accurate. Whatever that means, I'm sure you would agree that coming from the Special Counsel is probably significant.

Apparently this time it was the fake news cycle, but that was actual my thought also. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/politics/mueller-statement-buzzfeed/index.html

Sounds to me like the kind of remark that got Trump elected. And I'm not joking. Nor do I think it is an exaggeration. Try reading just the black. What was actually stated, and stop attributing motives that aren't there.

He, and separately I, may not share your views...that doesn't mean we are doing what you accuse us of. Not even close.

...or he simply doesn't accept polarized thinking, or view everything that way in others.

I would have my own perspective. It could change, though that would not be my expectation. My comments were with regard to addressing those I do not necessarily agree with. For example, in Canada this might be those who feel it is unfair to give so much to immigrants when we have people who are homeless. They would have a point, but I would not think that should override our treatment of immigrants, especially those genuinely seeking asylum. My question on the data with regard to the number of illegal immigrants was not directly related to the above line of thought, which was more about creating a more civil discourse. I was trying to ascertain the numbers. Most of the time 12 million and 22 million seem to be referenced. Instead of civil discourse much of the time, I hear accusations. I'm advocating civil discourse from both sides, and I generally have moderate views. It might not seem it here where I mostly question those who would generally be considered left of centre.

Must be serious. Trump now seeking a summit with KimJong Un...no doubt wants advice on setting up a dictatorship: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/politics/pompeo-kim-yong-chol-north-korea-washington/index.html ...might have had enough of this "checks and balance" thing

We could suggest Ten oz might be "enabling" climate change denialists, but he probably just believes there are better times and places for his efforts. ...but if we find out he's been working for the oil companies...