Robittybob1

It is you who said "there is no proof". So is it not you who won't accept proof rather than me? I don't follow your logic there.

I haven't given up my search for proof yet. That video showed how it would be possible to dupe and con people but that does not prove the case against Jesus. If Willie71 feels a demonstration of duped faith healing proves his case against Jesus, has he used that to confirm his bias?

That does not prove a case against the texts that speak of Jesus doing miraculous healing. Maybe it was confirmation of your own bias.

Would it still be a car after it was cubed?

I want to be able to sort out the fakes. So if it is just a technique like in the video I would be like you and totally reject them.

That is right. Take the air out of the tires and try and push it 1000 meters then! Or worse still take the 4 wheels off and put them in the boot and now try and budge it! Don't release the handbrake and have it in reverse gear if you still want to make it even more difficult to push.

I think the healing aspect is higher up the list than you declare. Jesus came from Nazareth he had a brother James he met John the Baptist he was an apocalyptic preacher he was crucified under Pilate. that he really did heal people

Had they quoted something with the word Jesus in it rather than "Christ" I would feel more confident. I want to see them deliver healing as is suggested in Mark with the Lord Jesus confirming the word with signs and wonders. Stop the preachers blaming the faith of those seeking healing, but being challenged themselves "Am I telling the truth?". That would be such a challenge to them. Show them to be fakes if you can. If you are right I'm behind you.

An invocation saying " "Seth, Seth, the living Christ."" is hardly invoking Jesus.! OK to use a word like "belies"?? So you think faith healing "contradicts" my thinking? I don't see your connection with what I said. I take faith healing as the barometer of the truth. Test: See if someone was actually healed and judge it on that. Has there been a healing? If "NO" the preacher has not got the truth yet. If some improvement maybe there is some truth. That was going to be my gauge, but I haven't had the time to apply it fully. I want to sort out the magicians from the apostles. Put them to the test. Expose them if necessary.

I can only hope you are wrong. I have never considered it just straight out trickery before. Personally it wouldn't hold out for if the people that were healed weren't sick in the first place I think the populace would have soon seen through that.

What do you think ...."Cleave a (piece of) wood: I am there. Raise up the stone, an ye shall find me there" means?

metamorphic rock - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphic_rock That whole bit was an aside but very interesting. Thanks and very odd how one topic blends in and metamorphoses with the topic of Non-Christian documents. There was a phrase like this in the Gospel of Thomas wasn't there , "split a rock and I'll be there"? That was excessively paraphrased and completely from memory. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/thomas-anon.html

That was such a long time ago I can't actually remember his answer but he did have a perplexed expression but my excommunication letter was in the mail.

As I said to my pastor "if the Christians believe that all peoples were descended from Noah and his sons, you guys are the biggest believers in evolution there is, for even the scientists don't advocate such a high mutation rate!"

I love geology too, but have no experience or training. Does this sentence from Wikipedia on metamorphic rock seem correct? Those temperatures seem quite low.

How come you know so much about searching for gold? I was talking more in figurative speech where the "mother lode" would be the Risen Christ. Even though to find a gold bearing deposit felt a bit like panning up stream to see where the best yields might lie. I found a nugget. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85759-was-jesus-a-real-person/page-5#entry831516 You didn't seem to join in that thread.

I am always searching for the mother lode. I'm not interesting in panning tonnes of rubble.

I'll have a look and think about it. Work ain't going that great - I'm grumpy!

So I don't think of those as real events. So in your view point Jesus would have covered 12 captured sparrows with clay. When the clay dried it allowed them to shake off the clay and fly away. Can you think of all the solutions to the tricks? Fuller text here http://www.gnosis.org/library/inftomb.htm

Do you ever wonder how they lived so long? Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

To download that book I had to install a program. The sites that I am now at won't allow programs to be installed. My ability to read it maybe restricted, I'll let you know. If you like could you give me the reference to the Gospel of Thomas you want discussed please. I'm back at work now so I will have less time to reply etc. Cheers. "evidentiary character of the Thomas gospel?" Evidence of what exactly?

Yes because mutations in the non-coding section aren't as often lethal.

One of your so called evidences was a 200 page book. I haven't got the time to digest that in one day. Jesus' answer to his parents after being missing for 3 days wasn't that great, I'd admit that. Still not evidence though is it.

Noah wasn't Jewish.

Well you don't explain that very well. OK he had spent some time in Egypt and passed through Jerusalem on his way down to Nazareth. Did he learn Egyptian magic, did he travel to the countries from whence the Magi came from. Did he learn their tricks of trade? Some say there are documents around India which they say support that he did. I have not seen any evidence of this though. Did the Jews have their own magic - Kabbalah? Is this what Jesus learned from his father and older half brothers.