Robittybob1

And if you get to see it, is it then knowledge to you, you alone? So do you accept my word that I had a vision of the text, spelling out the apparent (asserted) historical information. I'm not asking you to believe it but do you accept my word for it? I am "gullible" remember so I might believe you have an invisible pet dragon.

So throughout history when someone said I had a dream, or a vision, or even a thought you would dismiss this as a mere assertion? I had my vision and it came the second time too for I denied it the first time, and I'm asking that you also get it as a measure of grace. Are you denying what actually happened simply because you yourself didn't experience this? What claims do you make for your pet dragon?

Was that just a play on words? Lengthening "immediately" to a little longer but still inevitably stopped.

That is an interesting point of view, if I understood you correctly, you are saying "Jesus was formed in the imagination of God so he is therefore real". Thank you. (IF we are living in a 3D simulation theory??) Who imagines us?

Yes he would have been too busy performing miracles and healing all the sick to have time to write anything down! I'm not a theologian, in any form, but I seemed to prick up my ears when I heard this verse being mentioned today: 1 John 5:6-8 For it I think if someone could decipher what it is saying it will give us a clue as to how to prove whether Jesus was real or not. What does all that mean about there being "three that testify"? http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm I read a few commentaries, on the above verses, but all seemed to throw us back into the Bible for proof. The Bible can't be the water and the blood. The Bible is too inaccurate to be of use in this case. I might say I know what "spirit" is for I read from that spiritual book, but water and blood seem more physical or even physical (water) and biological (blood). Blood has at times referred to spirit, and water as semen, but that would mean that spirit comes up twice. I have absolutely no idea how water and blood could testify to anything. OK even forensically blood would only be useful if you had the body as well. Could it be water; that is the person Jesus. The blood as in blood relatives, friends and disciples (as recorded in the Gospels) The Spirit as in revelations through the Spirit. That would have made sense in the days of Jesus and soon after but not today, as the water and the blood are both recorded in the Bible. Does that mean there has to be some other proof out there? For if we accept that the Bible is one of the three, and the spirit the other, what then is the third testimony? There must be something else somewhere.

This sort of reminds me of how I felt when I was exploring the Bible and I wondered why didn't Jesus make sure his story was properly documented? So maybe this Gospel written by Jesus will be found one day, just like the Dead Sea Scrolls were found and the Nag Hammadi Texts were found. It is still possible that a new gospel will be found. But where? Will it be another Book of Mormon that vanishes? Has it been hidden in something like the Ark of the Covenant? There was the Copper Scroll which gave all the locations of the treasures from the Temple but nothing has been found yet. That Ark must be around somewhere! "Mystery Of 'Copper' Dead Sea Scroll Unravels" http://www.rense.com/general21/my.htm Was that ever followed up? I haven't heard about it if it has.

I didn't fall for your pet dragon prank. You have no reason to call me gullible for you can't show that I have failed in any aspect.

And what is that word? The person with the problem is you!

I know nothing about paramecium but this YT was very odd.

That is where you are wrong,after a few seconds (YT = 50 seconds) all the energy has gone out of the system.

Is anyone perfect? I knew him as an evangelist and later I read he has had some bad business deals and they make a fuss over it. Can that change what happened in Indonesia in the sixties? Now there is a YT with Mel talking about crossing a river, it is called "walk on water miracle" but he clearly says that as far as they know they were walking on the bottom of the river. So it is not as if he sets out to deceive you, but others later call that "walking on water".

How did you know you were dealing with "protozoa" in the first place?

Well what about the story we had to swallow as children, the one about Romulus and Remus the founders of Rome? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus Give us some confirming references of what you mean please?

One that springs to mind was Lazarus. Bring a person up from the grave. I previously mentioned Mel Tari, he said he has done that. http://taministries.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Raising-the-dead-v2.0.pdf

That was typical, all along they want empirical evidence but can never define what the empirical evidence might be. In the gospel stories Jesus proves himself by doing miracles. Now that must be a struggle, for a rationalist, I suspect, could never expect a miracle, yet that is just what is needed.

So what evidence do you think God could produce that you would agree was empirical evidence? YouTube of me walking on water, would that be proof? Could you list 10 empirical proofs that would satisfy you please?

I'm not saying anything about those that "experience" alien abductions. I evaded my paranoid "abductions" but had I not succeeded I wonder how different I'd be. Do alien abductions get discussed on the forum? Maybe you need to start a thread on the subject and see if anyone claims they are real. What is empirical evidence? Someone else explained that many years ago but I forget now. So a vision is a sense experience and it is just a matter of you waiting now.

Well you should listen to your elders, I'm turning 61 in a few days.

That is rather a bluff isn't it? 4.6 - 5 for HIV may be correct but it wasn't all happening as fast as Ebola, With HIV you remain infected for life, but Ebola patients are only infectious for a maximum of about 6 weeks

So what do we do in the meantime? God took 18 years to answer one of my questions before, patience will be a virtue.

Well that takes us back to where we started, waiting till you receive the vision you desired, and when I quoted those verses from Gospel of Thomas that seemed to imply what we were discussing, that it is possible by the power of Jesus to receive such visions and knowledge. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85759-was-jesus-a-real-person/page-10#entry832904

Proselytizing again! Would you let me turn that around pulling down your lack of belief? But being a good Christian following the real Jesus, I will allow you to offend me seventy times seven. Matthew 18:21-22

Read your words that I quote again. I don't care what you believe but you were kicking my beliefs in the guts.

You had crossed the line. You were actively promoting atheism in the post I quoted. I am very conscious of the accusation of proselytizing so I always step back from it. That is what you said and I was deeply offended by it.

What is the definition of proselytizing? (That not an easy word to spell) If I said "you need to study the Gospel of Thomas for your salvation" then I'd agree. Above I only asked you "have you read the Gospel of Thomas?" So that is simply a question. It is like if you were ever to show me your invisible dragon I'd know you were telling me the truth. And besides it was you who started proselytizing first! http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85759-was-jesus-a-real-person/page-9#entry832814 Even I said "EEWWW" when I read that!