Baldur

No, two year old children just take it. I know - a two year old girl once used me as a sex toy. Yes, I was just sitting there, her mother and my mother were there, and she just came over and started bouncing up and down on my leg. I didn't understand what was going on at the time, and neither apparently did our mothers - and I was a little afraid for her when I saw that glassy look in her eyes - but later I found out that that was from her orgasm. Actually, a number of posters on the GL boards have reported having to turn down seven year old girls that have tried to seduce them - some very, very blatantly. It seems that girls become interested in sex at a younger age than boys (on average). One woman I know told me that she has wanted sex with men since she was four. Damn straight! Baldur

Yes, but does a pedophile really betray a child's trust? Or do their parents betray the child's trust when they prevent sexual education and/or experimentation, when they turn against the child's older friend, and when they subject the child to an inquisition in the name of "saving" them? Then they're really not very decent' date=' are they? I think this makes it obvious: You don't have a problem with pedophiles, you have a problem with SEX. Despite the sexual revolution, you still just don't feel very comfortable with this part of human nature. You presume there is something WRONG with sex that makes it unsuitable for children. You would starve children of this necessary part of their lives. I know how miserable you would make children - I grew up in that sort of environment, where sexuality was something that one never talked about or admitted desiring. People like you did a lot of harm to me when I was young. No' date=' the proper comparison would be: Consider if someone made this argument: "It should be okay . . . if and only if women want them to. And not allowing men and women to interact in this way only frustrates them and turns gentle people into hurtful people." Actually, I have NEVER heard or seen this "justification" before. And I've been a lot of places and read an awful lot. Just because your feminist masters (mistresses?) tell you something bad about men, doesn't make it so.

Tell me, if I'm the scorpion, does that make you the ass? Baldur

Ooh! I'm a big bad scorpion! Shake in fear, my victims! Aww. Poor little misunderstood scorpion. I'm quite nice, actually. Except to mean, nasty, brutish donkeys that try to stomp on me. Baldur

Certainly. I never much liked Michael Jackson's music (with a couple exceptions), but I thought he was an excellent dancer. "Captain Eo" was very well done. I consider him to be rather strange, but not in a bad sense. I believe he is probably a boy lover, and I believe he would never harm a boy - or anyone else. (Except, perhaps, in self-defense, or the defense of others.) Baldur

Wow! what a change! I read the first 40 posts, and until post 36 all I found were outrageous lies and/or misconceptions, then I read the last 30-some posts, and find that the situation has changed quite a bit. I should also note that I tried posting here on Science Forums about this subject last January, and my posts were deleted without comment. For the record, I'm a girl lover. Incidentally, Bettina, if that pic is of you, you are very beautiful - at the beginning of this thread I would have said only beautiful on the outside, but with your recent posts I am beginning to think you are beautiful on the inside too - only woefully misinformed. In any case, I would never want to have an intimate relationship with you - or any girl - unless it was mutual. Furthermore, in the current legal climate I refrain from such relationships because of the great potential for harm caused by a society that fears love. I would also like to speak on behalf of the boy lovers here. When I was nine I met a very nice older gentleman who even then I had a feeling was a boylover. While he has never actually said as much, as the years have gone by I am more and more certain that he IS a boy lover. He is one the kindest and most intelligent men I have ever known, and I still keep in touch with him. He never tried to do anything untoward with me - even when I spent several days at his house as a guest, when I was 13 - and he always respected me. As far as I'm concerned, he's worth a million moralists. And not only am I not attracted to men, I'm not even attracted to many adults! While I'm here, y'all might be interested in a link that I posted elsewhere on this board, about neoteny. It is a theory that might explain the evolution of pedophilia. In fact, us child lovers may well be the reason humans developed intelligence! http://www.davidbrin.com/neotenyarticle1.html You may also find the following links useful, if they have not been mentioned earlier in this thread (with over 500 messages, I could hardly read all of them at once!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al. http://www.tc.umn.edu/~under006/Library/Antisexuality.html Baldur

It's really quite simple. Starting at about age 4, and on a yearly basis, give all boys a penile plethysmograph and all girls a vaginal photoplethysmograph while showing them pictures of men and women, boys and girls. Incarcerate all those who show a sexual response to boys or girls. Then, gradually expand the work hours per week and increase taxes, because it will take a lot of money to support the half of the population that you put in prison. Baldur

Thanks. For those who don't want to follow the link, it's pronounced nee-AHT-in-ee. Baldur

I've come across some interesting stuff about Neoteny, and would like to know more. Neoteny is more or less a process by which evolution is able to start over with a species, prolonging/expanding on infantile qualities. Among other things, this includes plasticity of the mind, and neoteny may be closely related to intelligence. Humans are generally considered neotenous apes, and many other animals, including dogs, show signs of neoteny. And, um, does anyone know how to pronounce it? Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://www.davidbrin.com/neotenyarticle1.html Baldur

Any discussion of intelligence, dogs, and humans, should include something about neoteny. Neoteny is a process in Evolution in which infantile traits are expanded. Dogs and Humans are both neotenous, though humans are much more so. What this means is that both dogs and humans have a greater plasticity of mind than their forebears, and humans especially can keep learning things throughout their lives. Other animals may start out with superior instincts, sort of plug-and-play, but humans (and dogs to a much lesser extent) are able to improve their knowledge for years and years. You might say most animals have more ROM, and humans more writable and re-writable memory. For an interesting article on neoteny, see: http://www.davidbrin.com/neotenyarticle1.html Baldur