Commander

Wrong inference and deductions by you Also false accusation The language you have used shows your character The fact is : Simply having a Strong Unflinching FAITH itself motivates the believer and creates a cooperative environment and pattern of behavior which increases the chances of cure of diseases etc and Miracles do happen while doubting Thomases remain where they are and may deteriorate further. This is where the less intelligent and less scientific score over others. Though, actually every one of us [composed of different particles hurtling through space] will eventually reach similar ends whether Believing or Not !

You have a point ! swansont : Yes, I agree. Atheism does not have any rosy prospectus ! Mankind is certainly Special ! But I doubt [and agree with Science] that they are better than every other Species that may be out there ......... No, we can and do observe many and explore fabulously. But I can never feel or be part of something even 1 Light year away - that is be yond my Capacity and must do with just observing and theorizing. That reinforces my License to Theorize ! >>>>>>>>>>>>> We thought earth was flat and killed those who opposed the idea that earth was the Center of the Universe. Have we now come far enough from that Stand and Closer enough to TRUTH ? Yes, I agree - I can not prove or give a mathematical Equation for the existence of God. I couldn't disprove either ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have a point ! But what is this arrogance you are talking about ?

You are Right. I gave you one + Click ! Science can not be otherwise and must be agnostic. Even Walker's Model has to be agnostic. Soul, Conscience , Empathy , Morality etc are hard to specify in Scientific Terms or Models to benefits Group of Particles Clinging together and called Humans all travelling en block along with the Surroundings in terrific Speed which gives them the Mass and Gravitational Effects ! Atheists and Believers have to be different but who succeeds or is better depends on what they achieve in real life or the heights they actually scale ! A tall order for both. However an Atheist can Commit Suicide without feeling Guilty about it but a Believer can not ! That is the advantage an Atheist has over a Believer ! Man can not even Observe Everything. He does not have the wherewithal ! If there is indeed a Super Power Man can not necessarily comprehend it too ! Only a preposterous Man can believe that he was created in the Image of the Creator. Because MAN is so insignificant compared to the whole Universe which perhaps has more Superior Living forms !

I agree I was wrong about God Particle if that is what it is. I tried to define Religious Attitude as asked, but I admit that in different Religions such Attitudes could also be different and some may not serve any purpose !

I agree that Psychology and Management too can play a part in mending any relationship ! Perhaps such Relationship Processes have not been given due emphasis. But always that aspect of Faith on the Creator God and resultant Effect on the Behavior of the involved Players who believe in it might not be replicated by Science which does not accept this God Phenomenon. Therefore that X Factor might be missing from the equivalent Scientific Process.

Religious Attitude mandates a Belief in a Super Power Creator God ! As far as I understand Science it does not believe in this despite God Particle.

The benefits of Religious Attitude over Logical or Scientific thinking ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a frcas and argument which ends up in a break of Relationship. There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view. But as taught in Religion there is a way of Continuance. Anger and Reconciliation …22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.… Matthew 5:23

John Cuthber : Hi, thanks for all the response. I can not react to every line and points of the replies due to paucity of time and efforts. Therefore there are many open ends in many of my threads. However as you have pointed out I do add up some more stuff with the intention of elaborating and being more truthful and honest and this effort has now earned me a dishonest tag as I have deleted it. I thought that the additional info is doing no good to explain the point better [contrary to my aim] and therefore deserves to be deleted. One important thing I must tell you is that the arguments I was referring to are not the ones happening in this forum as I have explained to Strange. Regards

I wrote something but lost it as computer froze and won't bother to rewrite all that again. You have misunderstood my post here [my first in the Religion thread] What I said here has no connection with my Science Thread posts to start with. I was not talking about the arguments here but in my real life and Bridge Game etc. Though I don't think i enjoy any negative clicks I receive. I know I am unnecessarily wasting my efforts trying to discuss / propose my views here instead of publishing on a suitable Journal but nothing can be done about it now.

What is TRUE is that you have not understood what I am trying to say. All I have tried to say in this thread is that I find my behavior and resultant reaction by others is different if I am in a Faithful mode or in a Scientific Mode / Mood. It is a statement I HAVE MADE ABOUT MYSELF and therefore it is always true and there is no debate about its veracity. If you know any truth tell me what you know with evidence. Do not assume that you know truth and others don't know anything. The Truth is currently we know nothing about anything but claim we know it all ! Here I am talking about Science Cosmos etc. You don't know what is matter, what is energy, what is gravity or what is Universe etc. Just peddling equations and Models and surmises are not enough !

Why do I get into more arguments and difference of Opinions when I am less Faithful in Religion and more bent towards Scientific Truth ! Ever since I joined this Forum and started interacting about Scientific Truth and Philosophies I find myself less interested in hobbies and pastimes and social functions. In my mind scientific thoughts and innovations go on and perhaps shows in my moods and reactions. Perhaps my real self with a scientific temper is being honed and shows up. The main benefit of Religious Faith perhaps is the Spirituality and calmness of behavior while being heated up through physical stress and pressure of the arguments. In my personal experience I have found myself to be either in the faithful mode or in the scientific mode exhibiting different reactions at different times / phases. I believe the main reason why MAN needs Religion is to gain that composure in practical life if not anything else. Perhaps what is given in 1 Corr : 13 about Love / Charity and the fact that Love is more important than Faith or Hope is a very needed lesson to be embedded in a Human heart while arguing with Close Relatives, Friends and even Enemies. Whether it is inter-personal conflicts or Scientific Arguments one can do better if an approach with the right Spirituality , Composure , Faith and Charity is shown rather than a mere dog-fight about Laws and Principles ! It is very hard to adopt both at the same time !

What is the Cosmological Principle ? Can you give a narrative here and then we can compare ! What happens to mass and matter ? What happens to matter under Gravitational pull ? Why Electrons are supposed to be going around the nucleus Why the moon is going around the earth ? Why the earth is going around the Sun ? What is a black hole and what happens inside it ? Does the entire Black hole gravitate towards the rest of the matter of the universe or not ? We need to answer each question by the Models available !

Hi Strange and Mordred, I need a lot of Funds and support to experiment and give Evidence and perhaps an Organizational Support from CERN etc to conduct Experiments. However from my thinking and imagination I can always foresee and outline the Possibilities ! If you really want to know whether it is true just go out there and see as just how strange asked me to do ! So, in this my Model [ Walker's Model of the Universe] as I suggested there is a Constant Bang at the Originating Center of the Universe. It need not necessarily be a Blast etc but a Powerful Constant Pump from the Gravitational Force of the Whole Universe which with a Great Steady Pressure of the Order of Multi Blasts continuously. Massed matter coming to rest which is Omnidirectionally Pulled off by the rest of the matter and decimated. At this Pressure Center emanates a Steady Stream of Energy, Call it an Expansion like Balloon etc and the Emanated Pure Energy can be envisaged like a Massless Ether which expands and cuts through the rest of the matter having no effect on this Etherial Energy Balloon. But, remember this is an Ongoing Process of a High Pressure Blasting Pump because of which this Massless Etherial Energy Accelerates to very high Speed and similar to the Lorenz Transformation this Accelerating Energy gets mass [perhaps when it reaches the periphery of the Universe after reaching a very high momentum [speed cum Energy] and transforms itself to Fundamental Particles starting to be Bosons, photons, Electrons, Neutrons and Positrons etc. After this transformation the reverse process of Gravitation affecting Masses takes place and every conceivable Entity of Matter such as particles, atoms, molecules, entities, bodies, planets, stars , galaxies , black holes etc are newly formed while constantly interacting with the existing ones eventually all go back to their Origin to get Decimated and rejuvenated into Pure Etherial Energy and such a CONSTANT BIG BANG is a CONTINUOUS PROCESS !

What the Balloon Analogy is intended to describe: (1) The universe is expanding OUTSIDE of systems that are gravitationally bound, or bound by other local forces (e.g. strong and weak forces) That is, things the size of a local cluster of galaxies and smaller (like, the Milky Way, Earth, you, me, atoms, and so forth), do NOT expand. (2) The expansion has no center, and everything is moving away from everything else, with things farther from each other receding faster from each other than things closer together. Doesn't seem to be meaningful : What I have stated in my Model looks more believable than this Balloon Analogy.

All matter gravitate towards the Rest of the Matter in the Universe and moves towards the Gravitational Force Center of the Universe. At this Center the Mass of the matter becomes zero as it comes to a dead stop but gets pulled apart gravitationally by the Rest of the Matter and gets decimated. This is similar to the Big Bang Process most Scientists are familiar with but a Continuous Bang Process which goes on decimating every matter reaching there. At an interval of One Universal Time Unit [Average] every matter will be at the Center and it is Equality of Matter. You, me and every Particle within us and every bit of matter on Earth, Space, Sun, Moon and even Black holes are not exception to this Process and over Billions of say Light Years of the order of which is the Average Universal Time Unit this cycle will happen. Big Bang is Continuously on. The entire Mass of the Matter gets decimated into the most fundamental purest form of Energy which is omni directionally exploded and what is normally described after a Big Bang befalls this Energy Stream. All matter is transparent to this Energy stream which can cut through them all and as it speeds through space it gains mass and can transform into Fundamental Particles, Such massed particles and atoms and bodies made from them [All fundamental Forces including Gravity starts acting over them - thermo nuclear and Electrochemical reactions etc] . Thereby the matter goes through Events and Experiences in its participation and interaction with the rest of the Universe until it gravitates back to its Origin. That Big Bang Process can not be created anywhere else other than the Center Of the Universe. Other Blasts, Explosions including Nuclear, Star Action, and every other conceivable phenomena do release Energy and Force but none of these can convert mass into that Purest Energy Stream coming out of the Bang !

one full wave length shift = 360 degree phase shift

This red shift blue shift is also another flimsy theory from which many deductions are drawn ! Has it taken into consideration the telescope's velocity too ? Talking about a shift in wavelength when such distances are involved seems strange. What about more than 360 degree shift ? Nobody thought of that ?

Call it the Walker's Model of the Universe ! Expansion and Compaction at the same time. If the Hubbles Telescope is accelerating towards the Center obviously it will see everything else expanding. No need for Red Shift Blue Shift interpretation.

Hi, Thanks. However I am unable to understand all that is supposed to have happened. It might have all happened as you have narrated. However that Hot and Dense state need not be at some starting point and indicate nothing else was before that. The Universe obviously was before that in whatever form and from that time has come to our Current Time and State of affairs. Now it is following its own behaviour pattern and at some future might converge back to that state again. Some of those words you have used such as Dense, Hot, Cooled , Own Weight , Gas, Photon, Absorbed etc need to be more accurately understood. If Gravity is indeed a Force acting between all masses of matter [the mass itself has different values like inertial mass and gravitational mass etc] and if E = mc2 is indeed a valid Equation then all matter can eventually turn into Energy and Vice Versa. I don't know whether or how this Equation E = mc2 has been proved or verified or simply assumed to be true. However there may be nothing called Inertial mass at all and mass may be always a varying value dependent on its Speed of travel through Space. That is , every mass must gravitate towards the Rest of the masses and as Galileo proved it accelerates at the Square of Time Rate [ proportional to t2 ] and inverse square of the distance from the attracting mass [rest of the matter]. Speed can thus increase or decrease depending on the direction of travel - Matter to Energy or Energy to Matter. In between there is a range of velocity during which a kind of steady state situation is presented with and matter is what we perceive as the inertial mass [some permanent character of the substance say a stone , metal or any entity] . The Entire surrounding of the Wholesome Entity such as Moon, Earth, Planet, Sun or Galaxy as a whole tend to move altogether and therefore gravitate together with the same speed. However within that entity events of gravitation of sub-entities can occur such as a particle gravitating towards its nucleus, or an apple falling from a tree or moon falling towards the earth etc without affecting the otherwise overall motion of that entity. Perhaps matter thus converges to a hot dense state like a pre-bigbang state. At such a center the Gravity pulls apart in all direction and launches out the Energy Stream into Space literally decimating the matter by an unknown phenomenon. This phenomenon appears to be an ongoing process.

What is Big Bang ? What happened ?

What exactly they tell you ? Can you summarize please ! Then tell me whether this can arise from Bigbang ? First tell me whether Big Biang is right or wrong ! Let us go one by one. Also this simulation has been created how and why it should relate to the Reality ? If you look at the Universe there is more Space than Matter and this picture is not bearing that out. This is certainly a contrived depiction with adjusted scales and we must know all parameters. It does not cover the entire Universe too as can be easily seen in the edges which are truncated. Please give the entire picture in true scale.

For everything there is a center of gravity including every Particle ! Why you say Universe does not have a center of Gravity ?

But why are you not telling me the effect of the Gravitational Velocity on all of us and our age ? You know at what speed we are hurtling through Space ? Just take your Mass and multiply it with the Mass of the Universe and apply Newton's Gravitational Law with inverse Square of the Distance to the Center of Gravity of the Universe and that will be the Gravitational Force applying on you [and me as we are all in it with every Particles around us - add Bosons, X-Bosons and Everything - including the Cern Lab which tracks all particles] Now tell me WHAT IS MASS ? That is something NO ONE KNOWS !

I don't agree with : someone ages depends on movement and gravity I mean I don't agree with that kind of false calculations. AGE is what AGE is : Everyone knows that, except some confused souls ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are all moving at a terrific Velocity [because of the same Gravity] What about that ?

Yes, I read it. I have heard of this earlier too. Can you tell me what does this mean and what are the Conclusions. There is no paradox.