JohnSSM

Im done answering questions that have nothing to do with the op and topic. I tried to give you the absolute limit of the benefit of the doubt that you may actually have interest in this OP at all. I hope the moderators have noted my abiulity to be patient nd very pro-social in my search for the truth. If youve learned how to manipulate the rules of the forum to get away with this hijacking, good for you, you managed a solution to feed your needs, without breaking the rules, and still being very rude. The only people being fooled are the moderators who allow it to go on. I learn about them, and you. But ive learned all I needed to know about you and them. And I will continue using this forum to find truths you havent even considered yet. I hope you do too. I can manage anything I learn about people. It just has to be established first, and it has been.

I have spent plenty of free energy trying to honestly explain my position to you, and you literally do not care at all. And oyu have spent no honest free energy. It should be illegal in humanity, if it is illegal in the universe. And yes, Im serious.

Yes, if you look into the history of the term, you will find out why I said what I said. If you dont research the history of the term psychopathy, what I said might seem like a contradiction. But my OP is not about the history of the term psychopathy. And I would rather you read about it, than explain my position to you. It will become totally clear why I Said what I said. But first, you must share my perspective. You wont put the free energy into that task. Its literally a refusal to spend your free energy on the OP. But, one cannot complete the equilibrium needed to arrive at the same perspective, if one refuses to spend it's free energy. As I note, thermodynamics does not allow for the refusal to spend free energy. You are the one refusing it. So, of course, we will get nowhere in our shared perspective of the OP, which amounts to the truth within it.

From my subjective position, it is, of course. Did you get anything out of relativity and ever tie it to subjectivity and objectivity? Have you given me any accurate info about psychology or this OP. No, you have not. IF you have info or a perspective which you aren't sharing, then of course, why would I believe that you have such info? You have provided one ambiguous statement about gaps in my OP. You have never directly said what the gaps were. Then you tried to claim that psychopathy and or ASPD filled those gaps, but ASPD and psychopathy neither inspire a pleasure to hurt others. Hurting other for pleasure is not part of their traits. And then for no apparent reason to any with reason, you try to mention that ASPD and psychopathy could be specifiers for each other without noting their similiar traits, which dont make either one lead to the other. IN fact, psychopathy is mostly blamed on genetics and brain structure, while ASPD is developed through confused learning which leads to disorders. ASPD might have some genetic modifiers, but you dont need them, all you need is stress, so we look to genetic modifiers for stress reactions, and we find them. The famous rat pup, licking experiment showed very plainly that the GCR receptors can be influenced epigenetically to create anti social traits. Its all that is needed. A more sensitive reaction to glucose occurs. That heightened sensitivity to glucose makes them more anti social. Shy, shakey, avoiding the other mice, recoiling to touch. Why? They now expect stress, they feel it, they release more cortisol into their system because of feeling stressed, and that cortisol is turned into gluco-coritcoids, in the liver or kidneys, (i believe) and the added cortisol now provides even more glucose. We cannnot do the tests on humans. But this obviously mimics the models in humans. Lack of care, more anti-social. Its a law now. You may not know it. Psychopathy is literally from the structure of the brain, giving emotions less importance on a physiological level. They have no epigenetic change to explain psychopathy. It is not formed through learning, which is why it isnt a personality disorder like ASPD, in cluster B. Most dont even want to call psychopathy a disorder anymore. It's a specific brain structure that allows them to deal with less stress when it comes to emotions, as it is easier for their brains to do so. They arent avoiding other peoples emotions because they feel ruled by other peoples emotions. That is what an anti social does. They simply feel those emotions less, and there is no automatic rebellion of personality to get there. So there is no functional reason why a psychopath might derive pleasure from hurting others. They have no rebellions towards others.

Or, you just never really understood any of these concepts as deeply as I? The very purpose of a forum is to put theories into the world, and get feedback, isnt it? YOu have refused to give me feedback on the OP, and have obviously been hijacking this thread with headgames? Its impossible to deny at this point. The game here is, I make observations, and you make observations and we all learn. What purpose do you find? Showing off your disorders to feel powerful cuz youre bored? You sure dont give a poop about discussing my OP. So why not leave if you aren't simply harrassing me? Its obvious I have more power than you in this discussion. You may have an attraction to our back and forth, and how I call you out, as obviously as a ref at a t-ball game. That attraction may be a specifier that you want me now. Really, think about it. You cant stop harassing me and ignoring the OP, which is blatant hijacking, and you dont think youre attracted to me? Think again. Or just leave me and my thread alone until you want to discuss the thread. I am not attracted to you in anyway. I have played your games while trying to keep you on track with the OP, and you refuse. IF you can continue after that, I believe, you are either ignoring what I write, or are so disordered, as to not even reocognize his own abusive behaviors, like gaslighting, that you will never stop your intrusions until I show you that I no longer care. But then, you have successfully hijacked my thread. Im sorry ole pal. I just call it like psychology sees it. Want to discuss if Im right or not? Thats a good thread.

I believe you are helping me to understand gaslighting. Giving me more experience to feel it and examine it like a scientist. Do you know what this means to me? Amazing. Thank you Now, did you want to apply any honest thought to this topic at all, besides throwing out doubts with no proof, and when asked for proof, it was rebutted? Any other attempts to deny my topic? If not, than I Must assume you agree.

IF you can continue this obsession you have, when you have no information to use, I can learn more and more about the behavior of humans who gaslight people, and I can use it to explain gaslighting techniques. This real world interaction is invaluable to my research.

One thing is for sure, you offered no proof of a specifier relationship between psychopathy and ASPD, or wanting to hurt others for pleasure. You have exhibited exactly no understanding of these topics.

If I am an anti-social, does that mean my assessment of personality disorders, has a disorder itself? Of course not. Anti-socials can find truth just as much as pro-socials. Do you really think Tesla was pro-social, or with your absence of knowledge about personality disorders, did he seem to act anti-social in his dealings with others? You keep attacking me and then enjoy denying it. Im loving it. I mean, its totally obvious how you are acting and why, just in case you thought you had anyone fooled. haha...Since you always avoid the OP, your motivations are more clear than a baby looking for candy. It really is that simple to analyze. Transparent humans...ha

One thing is for sure, psychopathy is no more a specifier of ASPD, or the other way around, without acknowledging that every other personality disorder has this relationship with psychopathy. Psychopathic narcissists will be more extreme narcissists than non psychopathic narcissists. Psychopathic histrionics will be more histrionic, psychopathic borderlines will be more borderline, and psychopathic sadists will not only enjoy hurting others, but need to in order to feel secure. Sadism is an everyday activity for most humans tripping their insecure ways through life. When one always uses sadism, and shows an "addiction" to it's doctrines of pleasure through hurting, it is a disorder. No other disorder creates the need to hurt others for any sort of pleasure. But that still does not mean you are a psychopathic sadist. A non psychopath can become an extreme sadist who enjoys eating others for pleasure. All without psychopathy ever existing.

Fatherless kids is now a specifier for ASPD. Always has been. But I have no psychopathic traits. None. I cant charm anyone, no one likes me. I cant manipulate people. I cant even get you to believe I have an expert perspective of psychology! haha. I have a past of anti social traits, and none from psychopathy. If something drove me to kill, it would be my ASPD, not my psychopathy. There are plenty of non psychopathic, masterminds, who went on killing for years because they were just anti socials with a drive to hurt. I dont lie, I dont have to exaggerate my own points, and Im not engaging in any of the head gams you try to tempt me with. I am a well adjusted anti social. Recovered anti social. And now, with honesty, I can spot anti social behavior quicker than you could make up that bullshit about psychopathy fillings the gaps in my topic. Ad Hominem...say hi to Ayn Rand in your dreams.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." Ha, very good. At least we can now enjoy your wit together. I do know humor, I just dont mix it much when Im serious about a subject. Thats a good one. I read them both and became power obsessed, who gives no shit about others, mixed with dungeons and dragons and dangerous delusions of granduer. I dont need those now. I studied for 40 years after that to figure it all out. What i needed was a caring father. I had to invent security to fill in the gaps. That is a personality disorder, of course.

When you studied whatever interested you, was it self exploration? YOU can actually use your own motivations to understand how others were motivated. im not the one hijacking a topic. I am explaining the topic. You havent been able to explain the topic at all. But still, I learn from you. You cant even understand the terms in the topic, or the others terms of psychology, and you still ramble on like you know something. If you want to know the truth, my father was a brilliant man who became an early computer engineer, after WW2 in New York. He was brilliant with math, but still could not understand very very complex math, but enough to develop to work on fortran for 10 years before it was finally released as a programming language. He also could not understand complex emotions at all, and was a disordered man who was very neglectful. He idolized Ayn Rand if that tells you anything. No emotional value for other humans at all. So I was his brilliant son, who excelled in math until i was about 13, when I decided that Ayn Rand had no understanding of humans, and neither did my mathematician father. I didnt want to follow my father. So I took his brilliance, which I do seem to have retained, and used it to examine behavior from a very scientific perspective. That is why I know more than you and have more info to create models than you in psychology, psychiatry and neuropsychology than you. Its where we put our energy. No biggy. I read Atlas Shrugged at 13 and understood it all much better than dear old mathematician dad. I must be dumber than him.

This post is not a speculation. Sadistic personality disorder was removed from the DSM. There is no other disorder which directly expresses a pleasure in hurting others which isn't linked to sexual or paraphilic arousals. Which means, the behavior of enjoying hurting others, for non sexual reasons is no longer attributed to any disorder, so we all get to go on calling these people bullies, instead of obvious sadists. None of that is speculative and is based on the reality that modern psychology has brought to the DSM.

This is considered a real topic that doesnt deserve to be moved to speculations? Moderators, following rules like random quarks.

Can I note, that none of these very educated people used the example in the OP, in order to help me understand free energy. Now, I see free energy as the energy is takes to find equilibrium between heat driven systems and pressure driven systems. AM I wrong? Or the energy left after finding equilibrium? Ha...any clarification in THOSE terms would be awesome.

I appreciate that, and if you ever have a model that you have created from understanding equations and systems of math found in nature, I would be very interested in listening. Realization is not black and white. The closer I get is, the closer I get. And who could ever say who got farther in that ambition? It will take more than math. Can you see how the assumption of being able to pick it up in five minutes might rub some people up the wrong way? I never claimed I would be able to understand in 5 minutes. As I said, it took a one minute statement to answer my question and many nonapplicable questions about my abilities to understand. They were all a waste of time for everyone who saw it this way. Someone got to the heart of the matter, by recognizing what I was looking for, and nailing it. Lots of people refuse to give that effort. I know. How did i get it from the person who gave it to me? It shows an interesting path that has nothing to do with the equations that made it real. He didn't explain them, he summarized them. This answered everything I need to know about free energy to model it. And he threw in the human trait, which I liked very much. Clever. Was this a physicist? Haha So this thread can close. The OP has been answered. Continue to discuss if you like. And also, try to learn from the exchange.

Oh right, since love isnt one thing to anyone, it doesnt matter if you specify what type of love. Do me a favor and put nuts on that? What kind of nuts? Thats unrelated to using nuts. I love you man. You show me so many different levels of human decision making when humans are trying to prove themselves, instead of a point. Bless your heart! IM sorry Luiz, did you ask iNow to stop hijacking your thread? It worked with mw, until he continued to display the disorder of his thoughts. I wont respond to him again on this thread!

Yes, of course, I can totally appreciate the reality of what you are saying, and I have said all along, that I am creating models, from the results, found with math, that lead to seeing how the universal machine works, because if I am right, we are simply a part of that machine, and I dont have to understand the math to make a model that translates into psychology, but I can use the approaches...the models! However, if the math can figure out the machines the universe has given birth to in its own evolution, i can use the models of those machines. The reality is, the more I learn about solutions found from math, the more I can use tried and true universal models to describe and figure human behavior. So the model is the image I have to be concerned with, not what it is made of, because im only going to manipulate it myself, in order to fit what psychology and psychiatry absolutely know about human behavior. IM sure someone can find a logical fallacy in there, but im still on this mission, because it has produced results that have excited me in the past. It excites me because I make a connection. Maybe when I get it sorted out, I can help others see more connections. So you can truly blame my glutamate levels. IM acting just like an excited neurons. Alas, I totally understood where you are coming from. Its obviously the situation I am in. If you were a physicist trying to model psychology from the models in physics, you would have the same drive as me, with different tools to use. My tools do work to help me find truth that others do not see. In the end, a very short explanation of free energy allowed me to see what I needed to see within it. I had a goal to find an answer, and I found it, from people who truly get free energy. I didnt get it before. I still cant do the math to figure it, but I dont have to.

If you ever want to discuss how the goals of each personality disorder are driven by genes which guide the structure of the brain which creates the behaviors, theorizing how genes may use the same approach to learning, or what we call evolution, when it comes to making genetic changes in the brain, as different environments can expose humans to different ways of solving solutions, could this same drive be true of the genes that have constructed our brains and our bodies....let me know...ha...I could go on for many hours.

PS, if the tendency to disorder builds upon itself as entropy grows, what does that say about the future of homosexual percentages in our society? They are going up, and they will go up everywhere as humans evolve in a fight with natural order. But that's only if you understand entropy and disorder and have experience transformation the model into psychology and future's prediction Oh jeez, I have gaslighted your topic. I am really sorry. This other guy followed me wherever I go to start arguments. Thanks for allowing me to do this! Great subject! Good luck with your explorations!

Yes, I do have bad faith in you. You never addressed any issues you had with the OP that I didn't dismiss with proof. It has shown me that you are not an expert of psychology to the degree that I am, and you obviously assume you are. But you dont have the working knowledge and understanding to comprehend the points I make, and you mock them. Im sick of it, but Im learning so much about how to handle people. I have had no difficulty in reading. But i've pointed out plenty of difficulties you have understanding psychology. Its like me saying to you..."Its an example of free energy dude"...and you go, "which kind?". You arent being unkind, I am uneducated in seeing all the expressions of free energy. I am not uneducated in how to see love. That's what I study. You thought it could be seen as a single thing in psychology? An expert on love would know.

A masochist may never back down, no matter how much they are proved wrong, and put on the spot. Its considered anti-social behavior because it never leads to any pro-social results. It's also supposed to feel bad, but they can ignore those feelings, to stay in apparent control. Yknow, people who wont agree that man made industry is probably warming the climate to some degree. Itll be very anti social when the atmosphere loses it's ability to support life. You believe you are being the sadist, you feel powerful, as you question and discuss a topic which I understand much better than you. But you dont have the power, or the knowledge, or the perspective to be in control of the understanding of this topic. That is why I am guiding it and you are flailing around subjects, never addressing the OP. Thread hihacking. But it's really an anti-social drive used to oppose things we dont like. What have I done to make you dislike me so much, and believe I dont have years of experience and knowledge in this field, that you may not have? The love of another mans body is the same as the love for another mans personality? Did you love your father? Did you want to have sex with him? Jeez. Love has many definitions and perspectives. Im sorry its not a black and white subject, but can you take your frustrations out elsewhere? May I suggest a subject which can be seen in black and white. Like math? I dont really think you believe love can be more than one thing, but since it is subjective, it is never any one thing. I dont think you like that reality and you dont seem to work well within those borderless views of understandings on many levels beyond black and white. BUt all you do is mock them. Thats how people act when they dont like something. Do you think it represents a disordered behavior that many people use? I know it is.

Which definition of love are you using? There are so many, with no objective view of it anywhere in any official and agreed to document. Do you know how many version of love the ancient greeks had? Which one shall I use?

Do you detect any natural order in sex between opposite sexes? Think long and hard. IF you dont see any natural order to sex between opposite sexes, in this evolutionary world, you have missed he point allready. Disorder is not a put down. It is a fact of the universe. We all have it, get over it. I love gay people. Their sexual personality disorders means nothing to me, so I dont judge them at all. Disordered and perfect. Thats the difference between the reality of homosexuality, and my equilibrium with it. I am fine with it.