Gater

You guys might never learn the truth that way.

Oh I thought this site was about expressing beliefs and exchanging ideas.

I believe time and space are infinite - ive never seen any reason to place limits on time and space - and ive never seen any evidence that the Universe could have had a beginning. My belief is time and space are infinite - ive never seen anyone explain how they could end.

Matter creates Gravity, and only effects matter - gravity has no effect on time or space.

Its my contention that the Universe has always been here.

I believe logically this has to be true.

yes - every point in the entire Universe is either space or matter. No reference - this is my personal belief.

Its my belief that the Universe has always been here. I believe time and space are both infinite. Its also my belief that Gravity is created by matter and only effects matter, without any effect on time or space.

Trying to explain the concept of infinity to this board is like trying to explain to a group of 5 year olds that there is no Santa Claus, you're just met with denial and rudeness. After a while you realize that your efforts are futile. The difference is that you know the 5 year olds will grow up and probably know the truth in time - sadly this group is already grown but will never know the truth. I suppose not all men are wired to comprehend such things.

Its all very clear - there are 2 schools of thought - one believes in an infinite universe - the other in a finite universe. One group is right and one group is wrong. I know for a fact that the universe is infinite. If you don't, I suspect your mind is too feeble to grasp such concepts. And my belief is based on logic - not faith. This whole discussion has become very boring.

And how would you know if I looked at it? I did look at that and found their ideas to be silly and illogical. The fact is that the time and space or both infinite - if you don't want to believe that - fine - I don't care.

lol Strange - Time and space are infinite. Since you seem so sure they are not - why don't you give me some proof that they are not. I await your response - I need a good laugh.

tar - both of our definitions work - however your universe is contained within my universe. I have 2 questions for you - 1st, how many life sustaining planets do you think there are in the universe? and 2nd - why do you think we are among the 1st? opposed to being among the last?

tar - When I was a child I was taught that the definition of the word Universe was all space and matter forever in every direction - I accept that as being true. Somewhere down the road the term Universe started being used as only what we could see with the most powerful telescopes. Right now that distance is about 15 billion light years, so in the future with more powerful telescopes does your universe get bigger? I suppose we need a new term to differentiate between the things - 1 a finite "universe" and 2 an infinite "universe" I typically say Universe vs the known or observable universe. What you must understand is that while your universe seems big - compared to my universe its like comparing a single water molecule to the pacific ocean. So in your universe, yes we may be among the 1st of many worlds, I really don't know. The funny thing is, I have more problems "crunching the numbers" in your universe than in mine. Because we are dealing with a finite time and space. But since we have discovered water in our own solar system there probably are many life sustaining planets in your universe. But in my universe, logic dictates that I believe that there have been an infinite number or worlds with life and societies that have lived and died out. And a infinite number that are thriving right now.

tar - when you say "universe" are you referring to the "known universe" - the 15 billion year old, 30 billion light year sphere? Or the "universe" of infinite time and space?

tar - of course its all speculation and probabilities, but my belief is that we are just one planet of an infinite number planets that came before us. I believe theres an infinite number of planets that evolved life and societies in the past and a infinite number happening right now - its just that we are separated by so much time and space that we may never have proof of their existence.

tar - The "known universe" - a 30 billion light year sphere, that we are in the center of, "started" with the Big Bang - this is not entirely accurate. The Big Bang is a point in the life cycle of the known universe that scientists have called the beginning - In any cycle, there is no true beginning. Just as in any circle there is no beginning.

tar - as I stated before - most things do have a beginning and a ending. I suppose most men are wired to believe all things have a "life cycle" Scientists talk of the universe as starting with the big bang - but this is incorrect. The "known universe" did start with the big bang and I suspect that the stars in the "known universe" will burn out, and eventually will collapse and another big bang will occur. That would be life cycle of the "known universe" The Universe is everything in every direction forever. It had no beginning, it will never end. It has no life cycle. I accept and believe that as true. People in here keep asking me for proof. Ive tried twice to explain why I believe that - at this point I don't know what kind of proof would satisfy everyone. I can only suggest that you use your own logic skills to search for the truth.

I thought on a science board there would be intelligent people that understood that space and time are infinite. I suppose the most basic proof of infinity is with numbers. No matter how big a number is you can always add 1 - forever. Space is the same - no matter how far you were to travel in space you can always go further - there is no end of space just as there is no end of numbers. Time is the same. If you could go back in time you could always go back a little further - no beginning of time. Seriously, this should learned by the 1st grade, its not that complicated.

No - there seems to be a lot of confusion with the term Universe. The Universe is all empty and occupied space forever in every direction. The "known" or "observable" universe is a 30 billion light year sphere that we are in the center of. Some speak of this sphere as universe because we cant see beyond it. When scientists say that the universe started with the big bang what they really mean is that the "known universe" started with the big bang. My point is - and there reason I joined this discussion - is to point out that since time and space are infinite, and since it happened here, there probably has been an infinite number of "big bangs" through out the universe and an infinite number of worlds with all stages of evolution. I think the reason that this concept is not accepted as common knowledge is the fact that many cant quite grasp the concept of infinity. Most people think that all things have a beginning and a ending. Most things do - but not time and space.

Rob - Space has always been here, matter has always been here. I suspect that a Big Bang is just an event that happens in the normal cycle of expansion and collapse of matter. Im guessing it happens here approx. every 100 billion years. Remember both space and time are infinite so there have probably been an infinite number of "Big Bang" type of events throughout the universe.

Robittybob - No. Remember space and time are both infinite. The matter that is here has always been here - but always changing. There was no beginning point. Strange - im done with you - go out to your yard and play with your imaginary unicorns.

tar - thanks for your reasonable response. Here is my position on God - Religion is early man's attempt to explain life. When there was an earthquake or lightning he didn't have the understanding of all the natural forces around him, so he created the concept of God to make sense of these forces, and religions grew from this. I think many of you cant break away from the idea of a beginning. Your life, the earth, our solar system all had a beginning. And 13.8 billion years may seem like a long time, but compared to the Universe that's just a moment. Because the Universe had no beginning - it has always been here. That's a basic truth that all men need to understand to put their existence into perspective.

Strange you arrogant simpleton - Time and space are both infinite - and because that simple concept is beyond your comprehension you lash out at others - I pity you.

Galaxies are moving - space doesn't expand.