Spyman

Since You used my name in the headline, I feel forced to clearify that I disagree with You on this one. I give it some probability that maybe gravitation is mediated by some particle but it will not be by the same particle we call photons. Photons have a real hard time getting through objects while gravity can't be shielded.

That's funny, I have "hunted" this very same "friction" in my thread, (link in post #34), without even consider that part of it. If You haven't read it You really should. I reacted on the part that expansion brings matter with it without friction.

Consider a long part of space with a light beam going through it, if that part of space gets streached will the light wave inside break up in small pieces or also be streached ?

Then maybe You will find this post by Yourself: and maybe this time tries to answer the question ?

This is like saying: space is not expanding, it's matter that is shrinking. Maybe I should try to think about it from that view and then switch forth and back between the views. Continuing reading and adding more replies...

Sorry if I have misinterpreted/not understanded You. But using words like "an outward acting force on bodies", "antigravity", "That means that the gravity of the vacuum 'pushes matter away from us' ", and accepting the fact that matter is moving away with speeds higher than c, which also according You, (Ned Wright), is due to this force, maybe made me take a wrong turn somewhere... That doesn't mean that I am convinced, just that I will try to interpreter Your words again, in another way. I will read through Martin's posts also and then reply further.

Well there are more reasons which also all are part of Big Bang theory.(Without expansion i guess BB would fall...) I don't know all of them but these Two should be the most important: 1. Why are all far away galaxies moving away from us ? (If it was just normal speed through space it should be more like 50/50 against/away.) 2. Why does galaxies further away move away faster than those closer ? (Again if it was just normal speed their speed should be randomly distribiuted.) Here is another link to a thread I started: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9729&page=1&pp=20

That is correct as long as the galaxies doesn't exceed the speed of light, which current redshifts imply. Here is a link to "Space expanding FTL": http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9693 Quote from a small part of a good post by Martin in that thread:

I would say it's more like the photons have to swim against the stream. If the star emitting the light is distant enough, it will be outside our "event horizon" and the photons will be "pushed" backwards faster than they can "swim" and thus will never reach us.

From my novice view, it sounds like You are trying to both eat the cake and still be able to spare it. An outward acting force on bodies causing speeds higher than c sounds to me as an violation of Relativity. What it really boils down to is there can't be any force at all "pushing" or "pulling" on the bodys without violating Relativity, if it causes speeds higher than c. If the "grip" is causing bodies to move in space then it seems to me as "normal" motion. Whats needed to explain this is a force that is pinning the matter stuck to space,not moving it in space, which I would call friction.

I am not in a set of frames here, only one, which all measurements are made in, thus no velocity transforms should be necessary. Maybe I should have clearified better that the plattforms are attached to eatch other... ( "c>v" misstype, should be "v>c" or "c<v" ? ) Anyway I have already realized my misstake, if the platforms are attached to eatch other then the speed between any platform and the tower would be below c, thus the maximum speed the second and the fourth platform "distance" themselves with would be just below 2c, (in this frame). Which was exactly what J.C.MacSwell posted.

Is that really true ? Can't the Third party speed limit be higher ? I will try to make a reference frame where 2 objects will "distance" themselves higher in opposite directions. (Just to learn not to prove anything.) The frame includes Two dimensions. In the center of the frame there is a tower where all measurements are made. The tower could be considered at standstill and includes the only observer. West of the tower is a platform moving from North to South with a measured speed of 0.99c. On the West platform is a second platform moving from East to West with a measured speed of 0.99c. Using Pythagoras this second platform is moving away from the tower with 1.4c. East of the tower is a third platform moving from South to North with a measured speed of 0.99c On the East platform is a fourth platform moving from West to North with a measured speed of 0.99c Using Pythagoras this fourth platform is moving away from the tower with 1.4c. Now from the observers perspective, inside the tower, will not the second and the fourth platform "distance" themselves at a rate of 2.8c ???

Correct link: -> http://www.dynarama.com/Whirlpool%20Space-Time%20Distortion.doc

I made a network crossover cable once to be able to play games with a friend using Two computers. Simply cut the cable somewhere on the middle and then reconnect the wires, by soldering and isolate, using a connection box or what suites You. The connections needs to be transparent so it's possible to see which color which wire has, and also from which way the wires are numbered. Connection table, (for my crossover cable): 1 - 3 2 - 6 3 - 1 4 - 4 5 - 5 6 - 2 7 - 7 8 - 8

If matter is being "pushed" away from us by a gravity field then it can be compared to being pushed by a rocket engine and if faster than the speed of light, I think it is a violation.Although I am not educated in Relativity, so I could be wrong here.

And here are a link to Ned Wright's own online cosmology calculator: http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html

Well if I am not totally misinterpreter the Big Bang theory and the balloon analogy than all matter should receive equally much KE from BB.So if edicius think they received different KE it might be from somewhere else, BB is not mentioned in his post, or where did the difference came from ? Maybe edicius misinterpreter my question to Johnny5 and tries to clarify the balloon analogy to me ? (Which I am not asking for.)

I thought the Big Bang was an explosion of space everywhere, how did different matter get different KE and how did the streaching of space during BB grip matter to be able to transform BB energy to KE and bring matter with it ? I was asking edicius to clearify and maybe You should read his post to. (Which in fact also was an answer to my question to Johnny5.)

How did the matter furthest from the centre get greater kinetic energy than that closest ?How can the matter furthest have so high kinetic energy that they moves away from us faster than the speed of light ? Where did this kinetic energy come from and how can it grip the matter ?