Jagella

Some atheists act much like the religious fundamentalists they criticize. That concerns me. Just use common sense. People don't normally complain about being "singled out" to do something they are doing or want to do. If people gripe about being exhorted to act morally and sensibly, then it's very possible that they don't want to act that way. I asked a fair question. As they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you promote ridicule as a cure for others, then you need to be able to take your own medicine. Jagella I'm not the topic of this thread. That's an ad hominem. Jagella

I know that some atheists are falling short of rationality and morality. I decided to focus on them as a result. To my knowledge the question was never answered. Dodging questions tends to make me suspicious. You may be correct, but I'd like to discuss the way some atheists have picked on the religious. If you don't like that topic, then move on to another thread. Religion can be very easy to ridicule, but I generally don't take that route anymore. I prefer a fair, open assessment of religious claims to see what truth they may contain. Fine. Let's ridicule you and see how effective it may be it preventing you from being ridiculous. We won't continue it if it isn't effective, though. Jagella

OK, John, if it makes you happy, then go ahead and act irrationally and immorally. Don't let anything I say get in the way of that. I already said that, but for your convenience--People need to act rationally and morally. All better? If you bothered to read the OP, the topic of this thread asked if the religious are being picked on. I asked if religion has any place in modern science and discourse. Naturally, one group that might be picking on the religious are atheists. That's why I focused on atheists. It relates to the topic. If you don't like that topic, then move on to another thread. Jagella

I'm not making an argument. I have already posted that everybody and not just atheists should act sensibly, fairly, and morally. I never said they were! Phi, please read what's actually posted rather than what you imagine to be posted. Jagella

I asked for a "copy and paste" direct quotation of anything I've said in which I referred to "all atheists." Do you have any such quotation? You assume too much. Regarding my use of the term "we atheists," I'm simply referring to atheists, a group I belong to. I'm fully aware that atheists differ on many issues. I'm exhorting atheists to act rationally and morally. What exactly is wrong with that? Do you object to being rational and moral? Jagella

Actually, scientific journals have peer reviewed many ideas such as creationism that might appear to be fringe science. Those ideas were found to be lacking in scientific merit. They were not just dismissed with a wave of the hand. I believe that the public should have a say regarding ethics in science because science affects us all. If the objections are purely religious and the science has not been proved to be harmful, then it may be OK to go ahead with the research. I'm not sure about stopping science "for reasons of atheism," but I do know that Stalin interfered with the scientific research in the Soviet Union with disastrous consequences. Jagella

I don't know the answers to these questions, so please excuse me if I'd rather not speculate. I didn't keep my beliefs a secret, but I wouldn't say I preached either. Whatever I may have said, I don't believe that there should be a gag rule on religious testimony or that those professing religious beliefs should be ridiculed. If you can cite one thing I said (copy and paste) in which I said all atheists were anything other than people who don't believe in gods, then I will buy you a large pizza with your choice of toppings. As for what I may enjoy, if you can read my mind I will include wings with the pizza. Nobody was threatened. Many faith healers are con artists who should be prosecuted if they harm others, and other faith healers might be honestly deluded. Showing disrespect to them is inappropriate in my opinion. I like James Randi's approach: Expose the faith healers with good evidence. It's a fair warning. Some people may turn violent if they believe the helpless are under attack. I've seen it. Fine. Your opinion is noted. Please note that I did not attempt to censor what you said or ridicule what you said. Isn't that good? I think it is. Why then not extend the same respect and freedom to the opinions that differ from your own? Science and modern thought can progress if we are open to freedom of thought and expression of those thoughts. That's the gist of what I've been trying to say since the OP. Jagella

Really? You would ridicule sick and desperate people for seeking healing through religious faith? I'd recommend caution because if there are any able-bodied people around, then you might be picking yourself up off the floor. I see nothing rational about ridicule. Ridicule is devoid of reason and has no capacity to arrive at the truth. I prefer calm, rational arguments backed up by evidence. If somebody seeks healing through faith, I would ask her why she is taking that route and try to steer her in what I hope is a more promising direction. Jagella

I considered that possibility, and I have concluded that they did not ridicule me because they were concerned for my health. None of them suggested standard medical care or did anything else that would suggest that they acted out of goodwill. I don't have cancer (my example was hypothetical), but I do have an injury that I sought a remedy for. I don't know why he lied to me. In any case, although faith healing may be harmful, ridiculing desperate people is also harmful because in addition to being disrespectful it probably won't dissuade people from seeking religious solutions to their problems. Jagella

Trail the heretic! Denounce him wherever he goes. Jagella

What they said was not what I would describe as constructive criticism. It was cruel considering that I was trusting in my Christian faith to heal me of a severe injury. Would you resort to ridicule if you are told by a person dying of cancer that she is looking to a god to heal her? One of those atheists had it in for me. For example, he lied to me saying that a petition was going around to have me evicted from my apartment. So I have reason to believe that it was about me. Let's put you on the receiving end. If some Christians deem your atheism to be ridiculous and ridicule you, would that be OK for you? Jagella

I already posted that i was ridiculed by atheists when I was a Christian. They ridiculed my faith. Yes. My mother, a Roman Catholic, called me an "asshole" because I attended an Assembly of God church. Religion is rough! Jagella

That's a very strange question. You don't know why atheists should be exhorted to act civilized? Is doing so an unfair burden? Is that what some people here mean by "picking on atheists." In any case, I've already explained some of my negative experiences with some atheists. That's why I exhort them to be "good." Just carefully read without prejudice what is posted That way you are more likely to understand the intended meaning of what is stated. Jagella

I thought I already did say that everybody should be fair, polite, and rational. If not: Everybody should be fair, polite, and rational. All better? I will answer that question when you answer this one: Why do you cheat on your taxes? Jagella

Another textbook example of a straw-man argument. It's hard to defend what I never said. Better reading comprehension is sorely needed on this thread. Jagella

I have already posted that I don't know if there is a "significant problem caused by atheism." I'd suggest you review this thread and more carefully read what I've posted. You seem to read into what I say resulting in numerous straw-man arguments. Don't you think that's a rather loaded question? (e.g. Why do you kick your dog?) I don't like what some atheists have done including what they've done to me. I prefer more honest, polite, and rational behavior. Jagella

That's easy enough. Here's what Wikipedia has to say: Not enough? The Library of Congress tells us: So there's the type of evidence you asked for. Strange, now you need to come up with some way to reject this evidence. You might try moving the goalpost by demanding evidence that has traits in addition to what you already posted. You can also try to attack the sources as not being credible. Finally, just say that my evidence is not in accord with "the facts" all the while not bothering to support your claim that you have the facts. Jagella

How do you know what is factual and what is not factual? What claim in particular are you asking for supporting evidence? In what ways might the evidence support that claim, and what definition are you referring to? And again, will you accept that evidence if I present it? Jagella

OK, what evidence will you accept that some atheists have harmed the religious? Do you promise to accept that evidence if I come up with it? Jagella What facts will you then accept? Please let me know, and I will then try my best to come up with that evidence and present it in this forum. I want your promise that you will honor your word. Jagella

You rejected the evidence because it does not support your predispositions. Jagella What a coincidence: I have weighed and measured everything you have said and found it wanting. Anyway, I hope that discrimination against the religious does not get out of hand. Jagella

You are denying the evidence. Why ask for something you will refuse to take? Jagella

I did post evidence, and it was summarily rejected. Religious fundamentalists often act the same way; they will demand evidence only to brush it aside upon presentation. Jagella Thanks for the coaching. That's generally a good idea, but often people don't want evidence. OK. Do you know this statement to be true? If not, then don't say it is true, or you will lose the argument! Leninism is a religion? I will break it! I did post evidence only to have it rejected or ignored. What claim are you referring to? I'm not really out to win any argument; I just want to know the truth. I will give it some thought! Jagella

If it's OK with you I will stick around and learn how to win arguments. I don't know how widespread discrimination against religious groups is, but it does happen. It may be the case that the religious discriminate more against atheists than vice versa. I don't deny that. If you don't like websites, then here's a book about the topic: The Bear's Hug: Christian Belief and the Soviet State 1917-1986. Anyway, John, we tend to believe what we wish to believe and disbelieve truths that we loathe. Evidence often counts for little if that evidence doesn't support our cherished notions. Evidently many members here don't wish to face the fact that atheists sometimes discriminate against religious believers. Jagella

I know that atheists are discriminated against. How does that fact relate to the religious being discriminated against? What did you win? Of course. Do you need proof of religious discrimination? I thought that it was common knowledge. I hope you're not avoiding any truth that does not support your predispositions. Oh, and could you please answer my question? Why didn't you use a search engine to find examples of religious discrimination? Jagella I am an atheist. Are you saying I'm taking it out on myself? Those atheists didn't just disagree with me. They ridiculed me when I sought a healing of a severe injury through Christian faith. Don't you find it to be cruel to ridicule an injured person who out of desperation seeks healing through faith? Anyway, you are twisting my words in much the same way that fundamentalist Christians will twist my words when I disagree with them. I never criticized all atheists--only the atheists that are no more open-minded and rational than religious believers. Is that clear? Jagella

Here are seven examples of alleged discrimination against Christians. I don't know how accurate these claims of discrimination may be, but I don't dismiss them either. I do know that Christians can be mistreated by atheists because I was ridiculed by atheists when I was a Christian. By the way, if you wanted examples of religious discrimination, then why didn't you just use a search engine? Jagella Do you dismiss the topic of the thread? Jagella