Dak

how about this i believe that, according to science, modern humans have only been around for approximately 200,000 years. not millions. any yes, even a cursory look at population dynamics shows that the rate of population growth can dramatically change. it is the product of both reproduction rate and death rate. if the death rate drops (as has been the case in recent times in the advanced nations due to inprovements in living standards, diet, medicine etc) it takes a while for the rate of reproduction to drop into line, and a huge population boom ensues. there is no reason to believe that the population increase has always been at this rate. anyway, the same argument (were it true) could be applied to the theory of creationism. actually, it could be applied more so to creationism, due to the fact that science claims that modern humans have been around for aprox. 200,000 years, whereas i believe creationism maintains humanity has been around for millions of years, thus making the argument (were it true) more applicable to creationism. unless your a young-earth creationist. exactly the same argument could be applied to the theory of creationism. OMFG! a creationist with evidence. that must be a first. no seriously, im genuinely not trying to extract the urine from you, its just that most creationists turn up and go "evolution is bull: iv got this book, you see...". if you genuinely have evidence, please share it. ::EDIT:: hellbenders right: as you're arguing against a theory which is accepted by most as having been proven sound, the burdon of supplying proof to your conrary claims lies with you ::EDIT:: may i sujjest (based purely on my previouse experience with creationists) that you aquaint yourself with these common logical errors/errors in accepting something as 'evidence'.

ok, heres an argument against a direct democracy: vote: should taxes go up, stay the same, or go down? im pretty sure that the majority would vote for taxes to be lowered. vote: should roads be maintained/should we enploy more policemen/should we adequately finance schools/etc? im pretty sure that the answres to these votes would be yes. effecting the wishes of the majority with reguards to both the first vote and the second votes would be possible how?

how did i get into a stats discussion I HATE MATHS my head hurts i am officially withdrawing from this aspect of the discussion.

im not sure what the difference in time is between america and the uk, so im not sure when midnight friday actually is*, so i just want to say before this thread gets closed: thank you all for coming and posting on this site. its been very informative and, whilst i dont think that anyone has changed their stance on underaged sex, its given us alot of food for thought. personally, i was not aware that in many cases of consentual pre-AoC sex that labeling the youth as a victim can do more damage than the actuall sex act itself. by the way, has corral rhedd's original point actually been answred (i cant remember)? and has anyone addressed a question/comment directly at me that i have not yet responded to? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ::edit:: * oh right, "roughly 10pm GMT-7" (phi for all). so 6am saturday in the uk. ::edit::

alright, same comment but with 70 year old in place of 20 year old. there are still less 70 year olds than 20 year olds.

as in, as far as nature is conserned the purpose of female sex is to consieve, so its believable that a girl would have the instinkt to wait untill she was at a concievable age untill she had sex. id appreciate more coherant responces than "wtf" short-term trauma isnt nessesaraly mild, and is only short in comparison to long-term trauma. as i understand it, it was used to mean that permanant psycological problems werent caused.

its probably down to more than one gene, which may be specifically based on the unique products of other shark genes, and desighned to produce a regenerative effect which is timed correctly to work in a sharks mouth, and using chemicals that are present in the sharks diet etc. in other words, i doubt its as simple as transfering one gene across.

that does seem to be the reason presented in the papers, but id suspect theres also a biological/instinct-related reason aswell.

maybe. although as the reports said the majority of girls having consentual pre-AoC sex found it traumatising in the short term. as for "if consentual sex was normalised with minors, there would be less abuse from both sides": not nessesaraly. there still remains the issue of how easy it is to coerse childeren vs how easy it is to coerse adults. if it is the case that childeren are more easy to coerse, then that would invalidate your statement above. dont forget, those papers show a lack of permenent trauma to consenting[/i] minors. they also show trauma related with encounters where consent was forsed, ie the child was coersed. if coersion is easyer in childeren, the AoC laws make perfect sence. does anyone want to dig up some studies into the coersability of childeren? i really dislike reading psycological papers. theyer layed out strangely and use lots of big psycological words that i dont understand if no one else does, then i will, but id rather not.

since when is a penguine fluffy? id call them feathery. i like penguines for there humour value. they waddle everywhere and go 'HAAANK'. so spheniscidae are semi-ubiquitously froody in my book.

doode, bad wording ::edit:: ah, didnt know there was a page 2. hmm, now i see that my post is surplus to requirements and irrelivent. uh-oh! better think up something relevant to say, umm, ahhh, ok callepigos: eat pie. pie is good. mmmmmmm, pie.* ::edit:: ------------------------------------------------------------------- * © weebl and bob

lets finish on a scientifical note. having continually bitched at people to reference their claims, i desided to practice what i preach and find a few studies to back up the claim that the lower the age, the more likely it is that the experience entails adverse psycological effects/the more severe those effects are. here are the most relevant studies that i found. please note that i am a biologist, not a psycologist or a statastition, and that i found both the style in which these papers were writtern and the amount of statistics confusing. if i have interpereted them incorrectly, please let me know by PM or by replying to this thread and i shal edit this post. these papers are representative of all the papers i found. An Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Based on Nonclinical Samples Bruce Rind, Robert Bauserman & Philip Tromovitch (AKA the rind report). this report has been upheld by both the american psycological association and the americad academy for the advancement of science1. The aim of the rind report was to differentiate the different types of child abuse, concluding that it was both harmful to the resipients of pre-AoC sex and confusing to the issue to consider both consentual and non-consentual sex with minors the in the same way. its additional findings, by reviewing a number of investigations previously carried out, include the observations: consentual sex before the AoC does not usually result in long-lasting psycological harm. boys are much less likely to find the experience negative than girls, rarely expreiensing long- or short-term psycological harm young girls are likely to consider consentual sex before the AoC harmful. the branding of the young participant of consentual pre-AoC sex as a victim can cause damage. Sexualität, Gewalt und psychische Folgen: Eine Längschnittuntersuchung bei Opfern sexueller Gewalt un sexuellen Norm-verletzungen anhand von angezeigten Sexualkontakten(Sexuality, Violence, and Psychological After-Effects A Longitudinal Study of Cases of Sexual Assault which were Reported to the Police.) Wiesbaden, Bundeskriminalamt Forschungsreihe the largest study of its type, in which 8058 recipients of underage sex were interviewed. the findings were that: the branding of the young participant of consentual pre-AoC sex can cause damage. the pre-AoC sexual encounters could be classified into three groups, summarised in table1: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Table 1 (direct quote from the paper.) Group I (57.1%) The numerically largest group included the exhibitionist and comparatively harmless erotic sexual contacts with younger victims. All the male victims were found here. In this group injury was very rare. Group 2 (11.6%) This group included sexual contacts of a more intensive nature. The suspects were mostly known or related to the victim; the victim's family situation could be considered as disturbed. A part of the (only female) victims of this cluster showed no injury at all. Another part had an injury index which fell within the average range for the entire investigation. Group 3 (31.3%) In this group were sexual assaults under duress, rape and sexual contacts with highly emotional defensive behavior or attitude of the victim. The (exclusively) female victims were older, and the suspects younger than average and the assaults were reported immediately to the police. Victims in this cluster had the highest indices of injury. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- this report again seems to sujjest that consentual sex before the AoC does not, in the majority of cases, result in significant or long-lasting harm, exepting in the cases where phisical coersion, rape or insest is involved. Lifetime prevalence, characteristics, and associated problems of non-consensual sex in men: cross sectional survey Adrian Coxell, research fellow,a Michael King, professor,a Gillian Mezey, senior lecturer,b Dawn Gordon, research assistanta this survey of 2474 men shows the same level of psycological problems resulting from rape of boys as from rape of men, whilst finding no correlation between psycological problems and consentual pre-AoC sex as a boy. based both on the lack of evidence to support my assertation that the younger the recipient of a sexual encounter, the more likely it is that psycological problems will result/the problems will be more intense, and the discovery of evidence to the contrary, i am hereby withdrawing that claim. However, i would like to point out a few things: there is evidence in the above papers to uphold the claim that girls usually experience short-lived psycological trauma following consentual pre-AoC sex. note that, throughout, i have said pre-AoC: this is a broad term, and what may be true of a 15-year-old is not nessesaraly true of a 5-year-old whilst the above papers may be evidence that consentual pre-AoC sex doesnt usually cause long-term problems, the term 'consentual' is used to mean 'willing' and therefore excludes coersed consent. no claims have yet been scientifically upheld on this thread pertaining to the ease of coersing childeren or their resilience to coersion, which therefore is still a majour unaddressed factor in the morality/justification-for-illegality of sex with childeren. well, like i said if i have made any interpretational errors let me know and i shal correct them.

this one just looks constepated: --(NNNNNG) but yeah, this one looks evil: __(mwa ha ha)

what do you mean? our current smiley is positively satanic. which suits the smiley best: --(i like puppies) or --(little childeren getting run over by trucks makes me chuckle) he's evil i tell you!

pagan. callypiegouse:eat whichever one has the highest meat content.

iv never heard anyone put forward that oppinion before

Do you have good policy ideas? completely restructure the way the country is run. disolve parliments. re-establish monarchy and develope a competance test, so that when a monarch died a new suitable leader is empowered, giving him/her (ill use the male pronoun from now on cos i cant be arsed to keep typing /her) the power to make unpopular yet nessesary disisions, on for eg tax, without fear of not getting reelected, and also will be responsible for ensuring continuity: for example, britain has a history of labour selling off services, conservative buying them back, labour selling them off etc etc -- the monarch could say 'no -- we either buy it and keep it, or we sell it and leave it sold'. restructure local govournment positions so its really heirachical, eg a couple of streets could be a 'ward' with one person as spokesman, several wards could band together and deside upon a leader between them, several of these 'ward-groups' would then band together etc and thered be someone to rule each city (and all the ward-groups within it), someone to coordinate all the citys and so on till you got to the level of one person to coordinate the country (who was subserviant to the monarch), so that no matter how big/small the area, theres someone to look after its needs, from military protection to why the bins dont always get collected on the same day. replace peoples right to vote on who leads them with a right to vote on key issues (this seems more democratic to me anyway, as voting for one person is basically voting for a clump of policies together). surely with the internet, phones and the postal system, we could be voting left-right-and-center, rather than once every 5 years. also make it clear that not every issue will be voted on, as what people want isnt always what is good for people. Fiscal? temporary legalise the following: cannabis, ecstacy, prostetution, corporate sponsership of govournmental divisions. the govournment are the only people allowed to sell ecstacy/set up brothels etc, thus resulting in a huge temporary increase in money to implament the changes. once the changes are implimented and the cash injection is no longer nessessary, corporate sponsership of the govournment will be made illegal, as it gives buisnesses too much sway. added bonus: with ecstacy for eg, its legalisation will probably annihalate the organised ecstasy smuggling gangs in the country, so when it is reillegalised it should be easyer to stop it being smuggled in (for a while at least) long term: put tax up but shift it so that richer people/buisnesses pay more. abolish council tax. invest in/start up buisnesses on behalf of the govournment and exempt these buisnesses from tax (take the profit instead) with the intention of eventually being able to lower tax as it is directly subsadised by the economy. buy back key services, eg public transport, air-traffic control, royal mail etc so that the main aim of them is to provide decent public services, rather than to make a profit. disallow any buisnesses located in a tax haven from operating within the country. Social?hire more police, and punish people who break the law more severely. try and mix up poor area and rich areas by building cheep and expensive houses nearer to each other, because 1/in poor areas, as the houses are smaller and jammed closer together (including on top of one-another), the ones who are thugs are in closer proximity and can find each other so its easyer to form gangs -- spreading them out would limit this, and 2/forsing rich people into close proximity with poor people might reduse snobbery and lower social boundries. promote the idea that people dont nessesaraly have to accept people of different ethnicities/sexual orientations etc, but they do at the very least have to bite their toung and refrain from beating them up. enforse with legestature integrate society more fully into govournment, and make it easier for citizens to contact the relevant branch of govournment to sujjest changes/complain etc. as part of this, any politition using unnesesaraly big words (or any big words once requested not to), saying 'well, that issue has many different sides' or 'theres no single answre to this' when its patently not true, or otherwize sidestepping a question, will be forsed to walk around his local juristiction naked with the words 'beurocratic pillock' painted on his torso (front and back). people whos juristictions are over a certain size will be provided transport between the majour population centers of their juristiction. Education, abolish tuition fees. increase the loan, and only require the loan be payed back if the student fails to pass the course. require the loan for any years that had to be repeated be payed back. schools: hire more teachers. start to prosecute bullies for any crimes they commit. eg, a bully who hits someone wil end up in court for ABH. name cauling would be assault, etc. after all, theyr being trained up to be adults, they should be shown what happens to adults who do that. Environment,illegalise plastic bags, finansialy support hydrogen cars and set up hydrogen pumps in stations. introduce 'pollution tax' to dissuade buisnesses from opting for the cheap dirty method. introduce recycling bins alongside rubbish bins in public locations. introduce a slight additional tax (amount based on income) for people who dont bother to use their recycling bins. a few other small yet significant changes, like illegalising normal lite bulbs and only allowing those energy saving ones to be used. Foreign policy?upold all treaties/policies our country has made, unless an honerable cancelation of the treaty is made. try and be nicer to foreighn countries, but if anyone asks for help with arguments with their neighbours, attempt to mediate conversations, and if one country is the clearly the agressor invade the buggery out of it if they dont calm down. invite foreighn contries to join an empire with us (once weve recovered from the radical changes). money to be transfered from the richer to the porer countries to accelerate their growth. offer to buy africa, but if they decline wipe out their debt so that they might actually be able to grow.. Are you a talented public speaker?hell no. Do you scare children?im not sure. iv never tried Could you woo the voters?probably not. Do you cater to partisan interests?as long as it doesnt adversly affect the general populance, sure. id also be in favour of doing what is most effective taking all aspects of the issue into acount, rather than doing what most people want. general oppinion should be just one of the factors, not the only/main one. Would you run a smear campaign against a competitor?no. people who do this should have every aspect of their life investigated, undergo a polygraph and asked embarasing questions, then all the less saubriouse aspects of their personal history published in a free book. Overall, would you consider yourself an electable politician?i severely doubt it. you tell me would i get your vote? If so, what party would you associate with,none/my own what would you do once elected,to be honest, id probably unleash hell and hope that the country had inproved when the smoke had settled. and how would you ensure another term when election time rolls around again? see above. id be king -- no more elections for me What happens behind the publics eye, and should they know about it? with the exeption of certain issues (eg certain aspects of the military), i believe that everything should be open to public scrutany. Would tabloid newspapers discover any scandals,i believe that iv been relatively discrete (ie, not gotten cought). nothing i couldnt shrug off. they could probably find out that i used to smoke a hell of a lot of pot and im bi, but its not as if i auto-erotically asphixiate myself whilst sucking on coke-lased oranges. most my 'scandals' simly place me firmly in the real world. whilst were on the subject, the tabloids would feel my monarcical weight once im elected. i think that theyre a tad invasive. could you expect to be on the cover of TIME? i have no idea what TIME is.

i like the MRLPs idea of including a 'none of the above' option. if most people voted for that, the election would be reheld, but the main parties would not be able to run. ie, if enough people were narked at labour and conservitive, then the others could have a go. i also think there should be a 'desighn a better form of govournment then ask me again' box

it was more in responce to the nurotechnology comment.

the carbons are numbered from the end of the chain which is nearest to the most significant functional group. so, if the bromine has the most impact on the chemistry of the molecule, C-1 will be to the left. if phoenol is the most important group there, C-1 will be to the right. eg, CH3CH2CH2CHOHCH3 is pentan-2-ol, whereas CH3C=OCH2CHOHCH3 is 2-keto-pentan-4-ol. the -OH is in the same position in both, but the presense of the =O group in the second molecule flips the order in which the carbons are numbered, as ketone groups are more active than alcohol groups. oh, and i beleve a 6-carbon alkane is called hexane; i think heptane is 7 carbons (though my memory is a bit fuzzy on this)

theres also the fact that there are less old people than young people. 50% of 90 year olds developing cancer will probably have less of an impact on the mean than 10% of 20 year olds developing cancer, because there are more than 5 times as many 20 year olds as there are 90 year olds, which could result in a non-representative statistic. welcome to the fun world of statistics.

i was assuming it had a normal distribution, which virtualy everything in nature does, but yeah your right my conclusion was more than likely innacurate.

'someone who is feminin and exclusively seeks passive anal sex as an assertion of his femaleness' is not a very representative definition of a homosexual.

take a protien, for example. the area of the protien that the antibody recognises is called the epitope. the area of the antibody which recognises the epitope is called the CDR. now, if another antibody is raised against the original antibody, and the epitope happens to be the CDR (of the original antibody), then as both the epitope of the original protien and the CDR of the second antibody are (broadly speaking) the opposite in shape and charge of the CDR of the first antibody, (still with me?) then they will share a degree of homology. however, this is just one area of the protien/antibody. it doesnt nessesaraly follow that the whole molecule will be the same, though there will be one area of similarity. man, antibody nomclamenture is confusing

we already do have a neuroscience forum