rangerx

Remember the little chat we had the other day? I've defended you before, defended you then but cannot defend you now. In one line, you've singularly dismissed anything I favor of America. Stripping someone of what's good about them to make a point is demonic, not discourse. I thought you could be reasonable, but now I'm left with the impression you're just anti-liberal trolling and a pro-conservative apologist. Period.

Don''t put this on me as though I'm a flag burner. In fact, when I raise the colors, I never let it touch the ground. When I pull the halyard, I do so in the spirit for which it stands, not the way I interpret it. Surely you can see the difference?

You claim gun control, protesting and a whole other bouquet of otherwise legal behavior or action is un-American, yet taking away citizenship for exercising one's right is somehow pro-American? Dude.... you're walking the fascist line here.

Again, you've contradicted yourself in the same breath. It's written in the constitution, that's why. To object is anti-American.

No, but that's not what's in question here. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but if you were true to your constitution, you would disagree but uphold the right to burn a flag AND to let your president elect say what he wants to say, even if it's wrong. When someone is perceived to be wrong, it's right to speak out in protest. You simply don't get it.

Hogwash Tar. Now you claim nobody anywhere has any right to criticize Americans when they are blatantly contradicting themselves. Being dismissive of others rights is as un-American as it gets.

Again, Trump trounces on 1st Amendment rights. Where's the outrage? Mention the words "gun control", conservatives scream from the roof tops out about liberals taking their guns away. "Stripped of citizenship" is as anti-American it gets. Yet another double standard rears it's ugly head for all to see. Now you are the anti-American. It's an affront to your delicate ego to burn a flag, but turn your back on your leader's disrespect for the 1st Amendment. On one hand, but never the other, Tar.

Flies are attracted to Co2.

From what I gather, the last several pages discuss the electoral college. While some may be, I'm certain that's not what is being protested, nor their actions in doing so.

Cooler heads prevail. I'm a moderate, having been brought up by liberal parents and conservative grandparents. My liberal parents taught me to work hard, earn my own living, keep the peace and respect different opinions. To stand up to injustice and to be good stewards of our lands and resources. My conservative grandparents taught me to work hard, earn my own living, keep the peace and respect different opinions. To stand up to injustice and to be good stewards of our lands and resources. My parents loathed welfare, unemployment benefits and supported growth and prosperity in business. My grandparents took in immigrants, were pro-union, pro-life, accepted gays in the family and espoused the value of a good education. We don't live in those times anymore. The American liberal has put too many obstacles before progress and bubble wrapped our youth. While I don't doubt there's a strong need to control pollution and enforce accountability and liability, they've gone too far trusting those who are untrustworthy and over-regulated those who are. Likewise, conservatives claim to eschew government involvement, but would have that same government interfere in the the reproductive health of women, marginalize gays and minorities, including those who are not conservative enough. Personal responsibility and high moral character went out the window in your last election cycle. I've defended you in the past and would defend you again. If you were my neighbor, I'm certain you'd have my back, even if we never met or spoke. We seem to be the same age. What troubles me Tar, the times we grew up in are done and gone. Try if you might, but they're not coming back. I'm certain the last whaler was an awesome family man, a charitable person and a loyal tax payer. But his day had come, we move on. We do not dwell. It's a fool's errand to think a turncoat Manhattan liberal will do even a fraction of what was promised, no less to the benefit of everyone. The alt-right has hijacked the agenda, insidiously. This is an undeniable fact. There is plenty of blame to go around for that. However, Trump has vocalized policies which have citizens of your country and the rest of the world concerned, gravely. The right to dissent, protest and to act lawfully are the cornerstones of democracy and the foundation of basic human rights. To even begin to suggest otherwise, is one of those concerns. I am pained by that, but relieved you've reconsidered some things. There are countless groups having multiple issues regarding Trump's rhetoric, lack of transparency, childishness and overwhelming double standard. In international trade, America "first" is not bargaining in good faith, no less from a position of strength. It's selfish and arrogant. Greed stuffs coffers but empties trust. Bullies win battles, but lose wars. My country is your ally and one of you greatest trade partners. We've stood on the field of battle together, that all of us may be equal and fair. All I ask of you, is to not undermine that alliance with divisiveness, protectionism or jingoism. In return, I'll endeavor to earn your respect by addressing, not dismissing your concerns. Fair enough? MLK said it best. "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that".

To varying degrees. Having been in the service and from a family with long standing service, one can appreciate America's contribution. The issue myself and many of my countrymen have with that though, is any (even the slightest) dissent is viewed upon as ungratefulness, pacifism or any other derogatory label d'jour. It's no secret America is deeply divided along party lines and no one takes responsibility for it, but to double down with intransigence, jingoism or protectionism. If you think for one minute Tar, that abolishing pollution laws, stiffing trade partners and marginalizing citizen groups makes America great again, have at it. Just don't expect other countries to follow suit.

That is none of your business. But I will tell you I vote for the man... never the party. Unlike America's political indoctrination to toe party lines at all costs. And hogwash about the leader of the free world. Get over yourself. American exceptionalism is complete nonsense. The idea that the United States is uniquely virtuous may be comforting to Americans, but it is laughable in other countries, especially after the clown car, dog and pony show of an election the entire world recently witnessed. Not to mention the total, hypocrisy of demonizing of your previous president and a malicious, phony criminal prosecution of a recent candidate. Guilty until proven innocent or otherwise elected. Yep, that's how America works. For shame.

American's once prided themselves on being a moral compass to the rest of the world. That went out the window when Trump was elected. I have every right to civil protest in my country as you in yours. I respect the constitution and laws of all democratic countries. However, you've been parroting "protestor" in a derogatory tone from the outset your contribution to this thread. That speaks more to your bigotry than my and your countrymen's political alignment.

I don't have a president. I never had a president, ever. Is reading comprehension an issue for you too?

Wrong. He was in the workplace. He was miked up and in the presence of other staff (producer, makeup, driver) while being transported from one studio to another in an ABC owned/leased vehicle. I've been in the media business and if anyone with a hot mike advocated sexual assault, no less excusing it because of their celebrity status would be fired on the spot. There's nothing "locker room" about it. Period. There is a bright side though. Republicans can NEVER use "high moral character" as their standard bearer for POTUS again. Admitting to be being a racist, sexist, homo/xenophopbe doesn't make it right, simply because Trump won an election. It's emboldened reprehensible behavior. It's divisive and hypocritical (if not outright offensive), especially in light of finger wagging everyone else to get on board with unconditional support of the president elect.

Pence is a dyed in the wool gay basher. He openly stated “societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family.” Pence also called being gay a choice and said keeping gays from marrying was not discrimination, but an enforcement of “God’s idea.” Thus Pence has no respect for the rule of law, instead advocates governing by the connection of church and state. Then opposed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act which would have banned discrimination against people based on sexual orientation. He opposed the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Worst of all, Pence advocated sending gays to "conversion therapy" gulags. Those are Mike Pence's words and actions. Trump wants to torture, register and monitor Muslims. Isn't government interference into the personal lives of it's citizens something conservatives stand against? Does freedom of religious expression mean nothing? Trump wants to bring back "stop and frisk", even though it was struck down as unconstitutional. Isn't upholding the constitution something conservatives stand for? Does racial profiling build bridges to communities? Trump insisted it's okay to harass women in the workplace, especially while having celebrity status. Isn't sexual assault illegal? Isn't elitism something conservatives deride? Trump claimed Mexicans are rapists (though I'm sure he thinks some are good people). He thinks a sitting American born US District Court judge is not capable of doing his job effectively, because he's of Mexican descent? Trump and Pence made their beds, now they must sleep in them. Those issues are not going away, unless they're proven otherwise. Until then, Americans have every right to openly protest those policies and to admonish their president and VP elects for suggesting them. I would never claim you cannot object to anything said, lest one's patriotism be diminished. If I were American, that would be un-American. Conversely, you have no right to suggest that of any of your countrymen, either. It's little more than a childish, last ditch retort to a lost argument, IMHO.

I recall you saying this in a thread from January of this year: (bolding mine) http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/89809-what-is-americas-biggest-problem/page-17#entry899821 I'm certain most would agree, lawlessness (anarchy) during protests is repudiated at the highest degree by either political stripe. However as to overreach, not only have you upheld those rights, you've insisted it's a patriotic duty. Then in this thread you've derided those who do the same under a different administration, as un-American. The note implored the VP elect, by civilly outlining perceived threats which came verbatim from the words of president elect himself, on countless occasions. Please explain how this can be anything less than a double standard?

I addressed this in my question to you in post #346. Why was it okay for republican lawmakers to demonize YOUR president for eight years? Why was it okay to get nothing done then, but not now? Ignore my question if you wish. That is your right, but as it stands suggests a glaring double standard. Nobody owes you an explanation, either. That's why civil freedom of expression is protected under the 1st Amendment.

When Mitch MacConnell stoop up in the house and decreed Obama be blocked at every turn, Republicans should have fired him on the spot. But no, instead they embarked on the delegitimization of their President of the United States as the their terms of reference for an entire election cycle. These were law makers doing this. Not actors during a curtain call. Not someone posting an opinion on a forum. Surely you must know the difference?

So freedom of speech under the 1st Amendment is un-American then?

You cannot unify by dividing. Hillary was a failed candidate, but she was NOT a criminal. The right went on ad nauseam as though she was. The epitome of un-American (no less sexist) behavior. Beside that, she done. Gone. She cannot be used in any context moving forward. The whole birther issue was little more than a racist plot to delegitimize a democratically elected leader. Remember who perpetuated it, ad nauseam no less? Trump and Bannon. That can never glossed over, ever. Do you mean to suggest the left should just let Trump run roughshod on the country, without criticism? The one blessing in disguise in this past election cycle, the right cannot never use high moral character nor religion as their standard bearer for eligibility to the office. In case you hadn't noticed, Trump isn't even in the office yet, but his popularity rating (for all that's worth) is in the tank. He's already done an about face on pretty much every election promise. No wall, no mass deportation, Obamacare stands, no special prosecutor, a staff chocked full of Washington insiders, no movement to repeal Roe v Wade. Sounds like the antics of a turncoat liberal to me. The left doesn't trust him, the right doesn't either, but they'll never admit it. Therein lies the problem. Trump actually has a few days in court to answer to. Unlike what right wingers do at the drop of a hat, I'll reserve my opinion until there's a verdict. In all honesty, I don't think Trump is a dyed in the wool racist or sexist. He is undoubtedly a lecherous, elitist xenophobe nonetheless though. Liar sure ranks up there too. Given the high level witch hunts directed at both Obama and Clinton initiated and perpetuated by the right (ie) FBI, KKK and KGB as strange bedfellows, it's best to be prepared to hear about Trump's actions and words ad nauseam for the next four years. None of that's going away any time soon. It's the reason people are taking to the streets.

More imaginary crimes that Hillary needs to be locked up for?

Trump accused a sitting American born judge of being a Mexican, incapable of doing his job. Obama was demonized for everything and anything he did by the right, even for being tough on immigration. Hillary didn't lose because she was a racist. Fail x3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haida_Gwaii "Haida Gwaii is considered by archaeologists as an option for a Pacific coastal route taken by the first humans migrating to the Americas from the Bering Strait.[14]" "It is unclear how people arrived on Haida Gwaii; but archaeological sites have established human habitation on the islands as far back as 13,000 years ago,[15]" I've used the term proto-Polynesian to describe early groups in the same context as the OP. "The ancestors of Native Americans may have lived on and around the Bering Strait for about 10,000 years before streaming into the Americas, researchers argue." If the land bridge theory is true, the ancestors of Native Americans, would be Asians (or whatever they were called then). With the caveat, it's all theory and not established fact. Again, moving forward, it seems 10,000 years is a long time to wait for a land bridge. Like modern humans, I'd speculate ancient groups of people would tend to follow water when exploring new territory. It easier to follow streams and coastlines than to traverse mountains and ice fields. That would mean going south mere hundreds (possibly more (ie) the Aleutian chain being quite narrow) of miles and building crude vessels. These are actions that may have been done in single lifetimes, as opposed to double digit millennia. Proto-Polynesians may have arrived at any time subsequent to the first settlement of Haida Qwaii. Admittedly, connecting one to the other may be a stretch. So for the sake of this discussion we were to postulate the first settlers of North America were mariners, which groups could these be?

Indeed. They wouldn't have to try that hard. The Kuroshio current prevails in a clockwise, northeasterly direction from the Orient. Fourteen months following the earthquake in Japan, this motorcycle washed ashore on Haida Gwaii. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tsunami-motorcycle-owner-located-in-japan-1.1279536 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuroshio_Current