Tampitump

Yeah, I actually included Francis Collins in my first incarnation of this post before I deleted what I wrote and started over, then I left him out. I mainly wanted to talk about my experience, and ask about the personal experiences of others. As for myself, I intitially became atheist not because of reason or logic, but because of the desire to be contrary and different than everyone else. It wasn't until later, after learning more about things, that I realized that I had good reasons to be atheist, and then it DID become about reason, logic, and skepticism. Many people are whatever label they are in name only, and the content of their position often is not justified, or at least, they don't harbor good reasons to hold said position when there are good reasons available to them. I still do not consider myself a particularly smart person, but there aren't many (if any) of said former school peers whom I think could hold their own in conversations with me on any given issue. Yet, I still think they are smarter people than me with brighter brains.

Almost every single person I went to high school with is more intellectually-gifted, more educated, and all-around smarter than myself. I was an idiot in school. I slept in class, never did my work, bombed the tests, and everyone thought I was a total moron. I remember being in science and math classes with all my smart religious peers. Their religiosity cannot be the result of low intelligence. If intelligence level was the metric for how religious or non-religious a person is, then I should be a deeply, devoutly religious person. Most of the people I'm referring to now mostly have at least a master's degree education and most of them are professionals. Our class valedictorian has a PhD in speech pathology, and many of the people I graduated with are engineers and lawyers now. It kind of puzzles me. How is that I ended up being the freethinker who understands logic, evidence, the scientific method, epistemology, etc., when they are clearly the intellectually-superior ones? I don't even have much education at all, yet I have relatively good understanding of science, philosophy, history, etc. Almost all of these people are very religious, and some of them even believe in the idea of a young Earth. My pastor friend's wife is a good example of what I'm talking about. I struggled in many classes, and she was chosen to tutor me quite often back in high school because she was such a gifted student. Yet, there she is every Sunday, praying to an insecure space wizard that she unequivocally believes in, and I, the dummy, stay home because I realize just how improbable it is that her imaginary friend is anything more than that. How does that work out? It always puzzles me that all these smart people I knew from school, whom I know are much smarter than myself, are less rational than myself on many subjects. Do you know any highly religious, but incredibly smart people?

Maybe I shouldn't have said welfare, but disability. My uncle is the perfect example of a "welfare queen" (or king if you will). Hasn't had a real job (or a job at all) in at least 20 years. You'd be appalled at how many people, like my uncle, carry a power chair to the disability office when its time to collect their check. I invite you to the south my friend if you think the "welfare queen" stereotype is a myth. "Complete fiction" is not on point at all. Besides, this was a minute portion of my post and not one I care to debate. My political stances have changed quite substantially since the primaries. I was merely sympathizing with Sander's views as at least understandable. I consider myself more conservative now than liberal.

I don't know how it is so difficult to realize how much both candidates suck eggs. I recoil at the thought of having either of them as my president. Though, I have to say that a Clinton presidency would likely be a better four years for science than the other. I'm not sure if Trump accepts evolution or has an opinion either way (as he seems to behave on most issues because he's an idiot who doesn't know shit), but I know his vice presidential pick is a staunch enemy of science and his administration will more than likely resemble a typical "one nation under God", evolution is an unproven "theory", "family values" kind of republican administration in one way or another. But Clinton, gosh, what a heartless woman. At least she seems that way. Power hungry, dishonest, and corrupt. She is smart, and knows how things work in gov't, so I'm sure she'd do the job just fine, but I cannot buy into her phoniness. She does not seem like a person who is in politics because she has a vision to make our country better, she gives off this impression that she's in it for the power and control. I don't think she's everything people say she is, but I still don't like her much at all. I voted for Sanders in the primary because that man seemed like he meant every word of what he said, and had a deep passion for the vision and values he expressed. He also seemed very reasonable, and like he could have his mind changed by reasoned argument and conversation on any given issue. It didn't matter so much to me that he was a "socialist", as I understood that the type of socialism he was advocating was essentially just "Socialism for America". Good socialism wherein one actually has to work and pay into the system in order to benefit from it, rather than the bad type of socialism we currently have in the form of handouts (welfare, food stamps, etc.) wherein people can mooch off of taxpayers without having to work at all. Bernie just seemed like an honest guy who, at the end of the day, would choose to do what was best for the country, even if the right decision wasn't exactly conducive with his worldview. Perhaps I judged him wrong, but he definitely seemed to fit this description more than the other candidates.

Spot on, and agreed. My point was colloquial and only meant to convey what likely happens in the majority of cases. It was not intended as a claim that science CANNOT be consoling. MOST of the findings of science are consoling to me. Actually, its kind of weird. I'm consoled by ALL science in the sense that I'm happy I understand the truth. I'm definitely consoled by the methods of science and the fact that we have a way of uncovering what is most likely true. Sorry if it sounded sweeping. Also, if you read my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see that when I made these statements, I was referring to the religious part of my brain. There is, despite my atheism, still a part of me that doesn't want to strain credulity sometimes. That's when I have to put my foot down and resist that urge. I'm not religious in the slightest, and believe ZERO of the nonsensical claims of religion, but the religious mindset can still affect freethinkers for some time after they have acquired their reason. Well, I can't say this for sure ,but I find this in myself quite often.

I lack the equipment to rebut you. I agree that Aron Ra would probably be somewhat intolerant, though I'm not convinced that he wouldn't be pro-free-speech as a politician.. The only real differences between the two are that Aron Ra is smart and understands that he is being intolerant, and Pence is an unlettered ignoramus and idiot who does not really understand how secular society works, and thinks the United States is a Christians-only social club. I said I accept the consensus of mainstream science. I choose it every time. I don't have to like some of it's findings. Btw, I never specified which findings I didn't like. I love medicine and the germ theory of disease. It's the bleakness of scientific findings I don't like. We are apes, no purpose, we are going to die and never exist again, it doesn't matter whether we exist or not as far the universe is concerned, etc etc etc. Well, maybe this is just my "interpretation" of scientific scripture. lol

Because you learned to think of it that way. This is not so for many of us. We grow up not being taught the value of evidence and skepticism. It is often much more fun, and much more reassuring of one's preferred reality to make up or embrace false, simplistic answers and to believe in the fantastic, than to force your beliefs to scale with evidence of reality. This is so for so many millions of people. Hence the overwhelming religiosity of 21st century Earth. I have to say that the findings of science are often not consoling to me, and I hate many off them, but I still accept them on the grounds of the evidence they provide.

I have a question on this: What figure would be considered as getting into the range of overpopulation? Are we at that point now?

Couldn't agree more, but I like Aron Ra for the most part. He seems like a cool guy and has an honest concern about religion and its infringement into American politics and public life. As much as I hate to admit it, I can kind of see why most people reject evolution and believe in supernatural things instead. I recently had a 2-3 hour in-church conversation/debate with one of the leading Christian ministers in my area, and all I can say is that he showed me exactly what religion can do to someone's mind. Actually, I'm not sure if its that religion does this to people's minds, or if it's that people inherently fail to think critically and skeptically enough overcome falling victim to magical/wishful type thinking. I can remember what it was like for me to believe in things like god, alien visitations, ghosts, etc. It is definitely more fun to believe in those types of things for many people, I freely admit that. It's also easier to make up simple panaceas to answer tough questions, than to conduct critical, skeptical investigations to get to the bottom of what is actually true. Science always seems to be like the "party pooper". It spoils people's fun. It was much more fun to believe in the aliens, and to believe in the ghosts, and to believe in the gods. I think people want so badly to believe in these mysterious, other-worldly things that they tend to resist evidence that would render these beliefs untenable. That is why religious people tend to be very defensive about their beliefs. Deep down, they know that there is evidence and facts out there that would shatter their worldview to bits, so they fight it. This is also why many religions have built-in fail-safes for this, like telling believers that the people who present these facts are just trying to "deceive" them and are the "enemy". I know that I used to resist other evidence when I was a religious person who believed in god, ghosts, alien visitations, bigfoots, etc. I think it is the child in us all to think this way, and to wish deeply for magic to be real. But every piece of evidence thus far, without exception, shows it to only exist in our imaginations. I also see that once one crosses that threshold of critical thinking, and learns the value of evidence and skepticism in determining one's beliefs, there is really no going back to one's former way of thinking.

Hey guys, I probably suffer from the worst clinical depression imaginable. I don't know, I've never been diagnosed. I think mostly negative thoughts at nearly every moment of every day. I need help, but I don't have the funds nor the desire to see a shrink. What can I do?

Aside from feeling that all girls are predisposed to hate me, I find it impossible to find people who are both of the following at the same time: 1) Single, and 2) Are interested in me. I've found the former to be very rare, and the latter to be impossible. The two together seem out of the question. I don't know how people find their significant others/dates/partners. Every time I try to get into "that world", there's like this firewall that keeps me out and rejects me. It's like a conspiracy that I'm not allowed into that world. Girls reject me out of hand without putting a second's worth of thought into it. I've tried on several occasions to initiate friendships or relationships with girls I'm attracted to, and I get nothing but "talk to the hand". On the other hand, other guys move right into the frame and make off with the same girl in less than five minutes of meeting each other. Everyone else around me who is my age has been through countless relationships. They all seem to be in this world that I cannot gain access to. It's like a fourth dimension that all other human beings have access to that I was born without. I don't get it. I've tried. I've sincerely tried, but I can't get past this firewall that denies me entrance into the dating world. It really feels that way. It's like a god damn breeze for everyone else (or at least most other people). It's unbearable to sit here and think that my nephew, who is now seven years old, will likely get his first girlfriend, and lose his virginity before I do. Maybe I should just convert back to Christianity and become a man of the church. That's where all the nice girls and supportive communities are. Fuck science, it just spoils all the fun. I'm not even all that good of a skeptic anyway. Maybe I can abandon ship and rejoin my old allegiance while some of my ignorance is still intact. After all, why care about truth and fact when the delusions are much more fun? I think christianmingle.com is where I need to be.

It's not those. They all look the same, sooper dooper symmetrical white beams, consistent with a known camera glitch.

Occam's Razor..... either its aliens from out space, its the millennium, or its a camera glitch. Those are the explanations on offer at the moment.

I'm reading now that they're probably camera glitches. https://www.metabunk.org/why-people-are-suddenly-seeing-strange-beams-of-light-around-the-world-the-reddit-effect.t6722/

http://allnewspipeline.com/Strange_Beams_Of_Light.php Ignorant friends on my facebook feed are driving me nuts conspiring about whether this is aliens or the sign of the end times. The pursuit of a true scientific or naturalistic explanation for what these things are never enters the discussion. So can someone please tell me what these things are. or are likely to be so I can throw a monkey wrench in these people's hoax machine? If you've got links to credible sites explaining what they are, even better! Thanks!

No thanks, man. I've reached my limit of idiotic theist debating for the day. Check back with me next week.

Right, I personally have never read a single book or article by Ehrman. I've just watched some of his lectures on youtube which gives you the jist of his positions, reasons, arguments, etc. Nothing he cites is really evidence at all, but rather just anecdotal conjectures about what is likely to be the case based on a body of scriptural/canonical knowledge and what is understood about history (which is all any scholar or historian can really do on these matters). He doesn't claim this very strongly I don't believe, he just states that it is more likely than not that the mythical tales of Jesus in the gospels were based on a man who probably really lived- a charismatic 1st-century Jewish rabbi who preached apocalyptic prophecies etc. I would actually like to know whether or not the crucifixion actually happened. That is probably one of the most brutal climaxes in the entirety of the Bible, I'd like to know if a man really went through this kind of thing willingly and was really nailed up on a cross.

I believe religions have failed to meet their self-inflicted burden to justify my belief in their claims.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Impossible is a more appropriate word. It doesn't play a large role until you get into the territory of looks I'm in. Then all bets are completely off. I believe that, and it has succeeded in doing so up to now. That is true only if your looks allow people to get to that point. When your looks act as a firewall preventing discourse from ever being initiated in the first place, then I could have the personality of a saint and it would be null and void, it wouldn't matter at all. Like all the others, this statement commits the fallacy of assuming that my current form is how I've always been. People always give me advice as if 1) I've never fucking heard it before, 2) I've never fucking tried it before, 3) As if my present mental state and demeanor is how I have always been. These are all nonsense assumptions people tend to make. I wasn't always this debbie downer and depressed. I used to think there was hope and that I would one day meet someone who liked me. Do I need to go through some of my experiences again? Did you guys not hear some of the instances I reiterated on here? Like the time my friends tried to take me to a party, there were four of us and four single girls, each guy paired with a girl, and the fourth girl refused to pair with me and went home early? Did I not tell you about the several independent instances wherein attractive women have told me in public that I was "funny looking"? Did I not tell you about how the girls used to line up in the hallways in grade school and laugh at me for being ugly? Did I not tell you about the few girls whose days I ruined by asked them out? The empirical data is clear and unassailable. I always try to put my best foot forward in public. I hold my head high, smile, make eye contact every time I pass a girl on the college campus. All I get back is looks of disgust and repudiation. I don't want to be this way. I would like for the supportive words people give to me on this subject to eventually come true. People always try to cheer me up by saying things like "don't worry, there are more girls out there who are attracted to you than you think", or "You'll find the right girl one day". Well, I've been trying to find that girl for over a decade now. I spend time in places with heavy female-content and not a single one has given me anything short of the cold shoulder. I tend to think that this would be worthy cause.

I don't know. I'll definitely get back to you on this though.

I was meaning that more in the sense of my mentality and my current place in life rather than my actual age.

I go to a community college that is like 78% girls. The majority of them are frustratingly gorgeous. One of the big problems I have now is the fact that I'm not in that age group anymore. I've been gone from college 4-5 years and had some real-world experience. All the "college kid" is out of me now. All these kids are in the 18-22 year old brackett. I'm just out of that "college-age" phase, both in terms of my age and mentality. I don't really identify with it now. I'm in the "adult who dropped out at that age and am now returning some years later to finish my diploma" bracket. It sucks because there are so many nice girls there. Not that any of them would give me the time of day anyway.

I actually resent when people say I'm depressed, and that that's my problem. This implies that the person has no good reason to feel the way they do and that its just the depression talking. It minimizes that person's conerns and thoughts.

Like I said, the only thing I'm missing is mental-retardation. Those deformed, mentally-challenged people have it good because they don't have to deal with their aesthetic and mental short-comings. They lack the capacity to realize them. I actually wish I could have mental-retardation. I was cursed with a fully-functional brain, so the brawn of my shortcomings causes maximal pain. I deleted this last part because I didn't want people here to think I was at risk for suicide. I'm really just sharing my thoughts.

I'm done talking here. It's all flowers and blue skies with you people, and no one could possibly have problems or appearance issues like I'm talking about. You give me the type of lightweight advice you'd give to someome with mild issues who is otherwise normal, refusing to accept what I'm telling you about my monstrous physical appearance and the severity of it. You guys can still chat here if you want, but I'm done.