Tampitump

I know what you mean. My mother doesn't hold beliefs like this, but she's still delusional and impoosible to reason with most of the time. Neither of my parents are critical thinkers now that I think about it. They are simple country folk, which is worse than anything you just rattled off about your mom.

I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex. I'm just not a sexually savvy person. I'm stiff, ugly, awkward, and uninteresting. I just can't do it. It's not for me. It wouldn't be right for me, and it wouldn't be right for the girl either. I wouldn't be here saying this if it weren't true. I just wouldn't feel right. It's a very tough dichotomy. I just don't think its right for someone like me to have sex. I'm not sure I want to risk passing my genes on either.

I looked at one of them for like 5 seconds. The first words of the video were "Something is up in the forests of Africa," and I thought "well, I guess my argument bears out". Hahahahaha..... No just kidding. My second semester of community college started today and I had to go to bed. I've definitely got it on my list to check them out. I have to admit that I'm not excited to learn how much I'm not more intelligent than a chimpanzee. Lol

I'm different than others. I'm sorry, I just am. When I walk around in public, every guy I see is a cardboard cutout of each other, and every girl is a cardboard cutout that is attracted to the cardboard cutout guy. I'm different, and not in the cool way. I'm the kind that just does not "click". I'm sorry, but 25 is old enough to have a good grasp on this. Out of the tens of thousands of men over the age of 24 in my state capitol, there are likely few to none who are virgins or inexperienced like me. Plus, its not just inexperience, its the looks and the personality. Its not going to happen for me. Never.

I feel more in the wrong than iNow. I'm sorry. I usually get caught up in the moment when arguing. I'm working on it.

One of my friends committed suicide last night. He was 25 years old. We had not been close in several years. but it was still a bad deal. It made me think of all the suicidal thoughts I often have. He had it so much better than me. He was one of those "alpha males". He was tough, good looking, and everyone liked him. I'm not sure what made him do it. It really makes me wonder about him. He was always such a bright and cheerful person. There was no indication that he would do that to himself. At least not to me. I would've given up my entire body and brain just have his looks and appeal. He had attractive girls chasing him left and right. I'm not sure what his life was like recently. It really makes me wonder. I'm not sure what has kept me from doing it. I'm a recluse and no one likes me. He had a much better life than me.When you look at my life and circumstances, it is really strange to think why I haven't ended it yet. I literally have every bad thing that everyone fears of having, no job, no money, no education, no prospects, no friends, no life, etc. This shouldn't be taken as a suicidal statement. I'm not at risk or anything. Just kinda venting some hard feelings. I wouldn't do that to someone. I really wouldn't

Who here is a mod? Who do I need to contact to have my account deleted or banned? Please ban/delete my account if you read this.

Someone please delete my account or ban me!

Why don't you tell the chimpanzees to watch them so they can get the memo that they're just as smart as humans. Can someone please ban me, or whatever it is you do to get rid of troublesome members on this forum? I'm done here, and don't want to be compelled to rebut further arguments. If a mod is reading this, please ban me, delete my account, whatever you have to do. Thanks.

Science is so muddled in the technicalities of this stuff that it sees only in one dimension. "Well, the brain is technically shaped the same and contains the same this and that" SO WHAT? All you have to do is look at what humans have done, and compare it to what chimps have done, the case is utterly closed. There is demonstrably more reasoning going on there. Whatever man. You're position is insane. You know what, you keep demanding evidence from me, but your rebuttals are ones like this. You have yet to provide any good evidence or reasons for your case. You just keep telling me I'm wrong. Let me ask you this iNow. Human and chimpanzee reasoning, equal or not equal? What do you really believe? Humans and chimps have identical reasoning capacities? Or do humans have slightly more? Do chimps have slightly more?

Let's see the chimpanzee algebra, geometry, calculus, and trigonometry then. Lets see chimps engaging in formal debates and founding research universities. Lets see chimps building cities, playing in rock and roll bands, and designing airplanes. Lets see chimps writing plays and novels. Lets see chimps doing all this stuff. Dude, it is so obvious that our reasoning is universes beyond the other apes. Group behavior and standing on the shoulders of giants does not adequately explain it. Put a chimp on the shoulder of a giant and he won't do jack diddly with it. He'll remain a chimp with no technology, no written language, and his own feces to throw.

Why have chimps not matched our technology then? If its just that simple then surely all the other apes should be doing it? Your answers almost seem religious to me. I give you overwhelming evidence that we have much more reason than the other apes and you just assert that I'm wrong. I'm truly interested. Educate me on how chimps have just as much reasoning capacity as humans. I really would like to know this. I would like to know where chimps have invented algebra, geometry, calculus, trigonometry, and ways of solving complex problems. Math is logic right? Reason is predicated on logic right? When have chimps done anything remotely like this? Your position is just absurd my friend. It is so absurd as to be complete insane to my mind. I would like to poll the people of this thread. Who here agrees with iNow? Who here thinks that humans do not contain much more profound reasoning capabilities than chimpanzees or other apes? I'm truly interested in learning this. I would like to know how an animal species that hasn't even invented the wheel yet has just as much reasoning capabilities than a species who has launched explorer spacecraft to the far reaches of the galaxy and landed members on the moon. Are there chimps in Africa right now that I don't know about conversing on an internet forum about humans? I never disputed that we are more similar to chimps than not. I agree. I accept evolution, okay. But yes, there is demonstrably more to humans than chimps. The evidence is right outside your door (and inside your door for that matter). The next time you watch a giant 3D TV, tell yourself that humans have the same reasoning capabilities as chimpanzees. This almost reminds me of when marine biologists talk about dolphins having "near-human intelligence", or even intelligence that is equal to humans. BULLSHIT. When dolphins kidnap a human and run scans of their brains to study them, I will believe that. Yes, I guess that makes me a "science denier". These arguments don't require science to debunk. Just look at what humans have done versus what dolphins have done, case absolutely and utter CLOSED! So with global warming, should we just leave the decision up to chimpanzees and dolphins to fix? Clearly they should be able to handle it just as adequately as humans since their reasoning is the same right? Let's just let chimps run society for a while. Give ourselves a vacation. If they reason just as well as we do, they can handle it right?

Okay, well I'll just go ahead and concede you the win since I just checked and it would appear that I no longer give a shit. Hmm.....interesting fact..... There is, however, one question I'd like to ask you now that I've conceded you to be completely right on this question: If not reason, then what is it in human societies that has led to our technology, cities, universities, spoken and written languages, and all the other things no other animals have? Btw, if you go by Sagan's words, humans didn't change intellectually 100 or so years ago. We weren't any dumber 4 or 5 thousand years ago. We were the same humans. Still smarter than chimps.

I do not qualify statements. I'm not a scientist, and I'm not representing science. I'm a hawkish lay person and redneck with a slightly better understanding of science and philosophy than my fellow rednecks of the south, nothing more. The conversations I'm in usually end up with me attacking not ideas, but people themselves (usually verbally). I'm more of a reactor than a thinker, and I DO judge books by their covers. When I make statements, they are usually sweeping, and I'm operating under the assumption that the people reading them will connect the dots and understand what I mean by them. I'm a lay person through and through. No careful thinking going on here. Lol, the above was slightly hyperbolic and meant as a joke, but it still not far from accurate.

I have a feeling you agree with me, but are just waiting for me to complete my syllogism scientifically. I certainly hope so, because your case seems indefensible to me. But again, what do I know? How does our technology and societies not demonstrate our superior reasoning skills over chimps and all other animals? Did chimps invent internal combustion engines, airplanes, telescopes, rocket ships, cell phones, televisions, or research universities to study science, philosophy, and mathematics? Do chimp societies have written constitutions and supreme courts? Do chimps sit around in groups and discuss which restaurant they're going to eat at tonight? Can chimps compose intricate pieces of music with 70 piece orchestras? Was it a chimp who sent a human into space as a test mission? Do chimps hold humans in captivity and study their behavior, biology, and anatomy? Of course our societies and technology decisively and conclusively demonstrate humans to be profoundly more reasonable and rational than chimps to the point of no practical comparison. Sure, we have the same leftover instincts from our evolutionary past being ancestrally linked to chimps, but like I said, it once was a wild tiger, now our instincts are like the domesticated house cat. We can forego them with our superior reasoning abilities and you know it. Chimps and other apes have their instincts, and perhaps a little bit of rudimentary reasoning beyond that (but not much). Humans have a much less potent form of the same instinct, and profoundly more reasoning than chimps and all other animals. Hence, our societies have continued to shed off the barbarism of our primate past, and our reasoning has led us to things no other animal has even though about thinking about doing.

My my my..... I'm going to have to spend some time digesting that. I must be even more stupid than I thought.

I never said we were "immune". I AGREED with your statement that we have the same natural instincts as chimps. My argument was that we have all those instincts, PLUS sapience and reasoning beyond the ability of a chimp. The evidence is everywhere, modern society is evidence of this. We wouldn't have evolved it if we had been purley bound by our apeish urges to the exclusion of all else. That's also good evidence as to why chimps haven't evolved anything like it. I got mad because you acted as though I provided no evidence or reasons to support my assertions, and I did. Every single one of them, I provided at least SOME reasons and examples for. Go back and read them.

I don't represent science of you're referring to me. I've constantly warned members of my attitude and stupidity.

iNow, your objection is so obviously hostile towards me I'm not even gonna bother responding to you. I provided my reasons in my posts. If you deny that humans reason more highly than chimps then I'd say perhaps its just some of us. I'm more of an authoritarian than a debater/arguer, which I understand is more like the primate in me than the reasoning agent. I never claimed to be smart in the least. I normally don't go back and provide additional reasons/evidence once my positions have been brought in to question. I expect them to be conceded, or else I usually get frustrated and leave. I know this is ass-backwards, but its how I work. Whatever the case, I AM officially done here. I know I've said at least three times now and come back every time, but I'm truly done with this forum now.

I'd say there is GREAT conflict between religion and science, unlike Gould would have you believe. The conflict comes when religion makes an assertion about how the natural world is (i.e. Parthenogenesis in humans, global floods, 6-day creation stories, resurrections, etc.), science and religion have competing answers to these questions. This conflict is easily solvable by weighing the evidence presented by both sides. Science respectfully presents its position with mounds of empirical data and observation to support its case, never tries to use force or threats to coax people into belief, and doesn't claim to have the ultimate truth. Religion, on the other hand, asserts the utter perfection of its words, provides little to no evidence of its assertions, claims ownership of the truth so you can't refute it (if you do, it's your flawed nature), and tells you that you are an unworthy sinner who must burn eternally if you disagree. The choice between the two is about as clear as day. When there is a conflict between what science says and what religion says, it is religion that has to be "re-interpreted" to fit the evidence of science, and not the other way around. Science has never had to nuance or re-interpret its position to be reconciled with religion. We'll, at least not without force, and not outside of religious minds. There is a conflict, and science is the victor without exception.

No no no.....The argument was that without religion we still have the apeish instincts that account for the conflict and atrocity. My argument is NO. We've evolved secular, modern, liberal democracy, which is a sapient middle finger in the face of our primate, instinctive, tribal nature. Secular, liberal, democracy in its modern form was a product of the Enlightenment, a movement done ENTIRELY by humans which was predicated ENTIRELY on reason and not a single other thing. Get rid of religion, sure, we'll still have the apeish urges, but we'll also have the capacity to override it via reason, which we will most certainly do by this point. Our primate instincts are like a wild dog we are slowly domesticating. At this point, we've basically turned it into a house dog. By and large, if religion dies now, I think our species will carry on the trend of modernity instead of falling back into tribalism and war because we're apes. Even with religion we still keep making substantial progress. We've overcame our barbaric primate past by reasoning ourselves against if (for the most part), religion is the only think left that needs to die. Whoever is telling it that the party ended for it long ago just doesn't seem to have a loud enough voice.

I don't doubt we have similar instincts. I'm aware. What I'm saying is that the chimps don't have much beyond those instincts and humans do. If not, we would not have evolved the modern society we live in today. We have the instincts, plus the added ability to reason about them. For instance, we have natural instincts to have sex and procreate like the chimps do, but celibacy and self-preservation happens ALL THE TIME in humans. We don't JUST have the instincts, we have reason, which allows us to decide against our natural impulses and desires in ways unavailable to the other animal species. We like to eat just like the chimps do, but we can say "you know what, since we're going out to eat a big meal at Red Lobster tonight, I'm going to fast all day so I'll be REALLY hungry for the big meal!". Humans have a capacity to reason and to willfully negate their nature and biological urges in ways chimps cannot. Argument still invalid.

Sure there's NOT. Chimps don't have a smorgasbord of other options in their arsenal to draw influence from other than their instinctive impulses. Humans do. We have the capacity to think and act aginst most of our biological, natural tendencies. We can weigh them in terms of reason and logic, chimps largely can't. If they could, they would have evolved more along our lines by now, and they haven't. They, like most other non-human animals, still act mostly on instinct and way less on a conscious awareness and reasoned preponderance of the evidence. Sorry bud, but your house of cards just ain't staying together. Its an OKAY argument, but still just.....not very good.

Chimpanzees lack the ability to reason on the level of humans. It is a false equivalency. There is no excuse for humans not to behave absent religion.

Perhaps my view is shaped by depression. I don't know. My assessments of myself, my life, and my intellect seem pretty accurate to me. Whatever it is that women seem to want, I seem to always be the antithesis of that.