Tampitump

I'm saying this to degrade you, but you just don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure if you've ever been down here to the American south, but if you haven't, you should make a trip down here sometime. The people here believe some very hateful things about minority groups like homosexuals, and still harbor a very patriarchal and medieval view of society wherein white Christians are the only ones who should have human rights in their view. Their policies regarding minorities are utterly degrading and oppressive to entire groups of people, and they see no problems with their actions at all. That's because their religion justifies and promotes these views. Sure, their power has been in decline for many years, but their beliefs still exist and these people would go straight back to their old ways if just given the authority to do so. These people are not evil, they are just duped into centuries of poisonous beliefs that tell them what their values should be. They are not insane people, they are religious people. Now, map that onto Islam. The fundamentals of Islam are slightly different than Christianity. You can't really get around many of the violent prescriptions in the Quran or the Hadith, where Christianity and Judaism have certain reasons they can use to disregard the barbaric passages. The people who commit suicide bombings and other terrorist acts have been shown not to be insane or even particularly evil people. They are religious people who fully believe in the validity and truth of what their books are telling them. Why are there no Jain suicide bombers? No Christian suicide bombers? No Jewish suicide bombers? No Buddhist suicide bombers? No Hindu suicide bombers? I submit that its because the metaphysical belief in martyrdom as a means of going to heaven are not in these other religious books. But they are an Islamic belief. There is really no other reason for someone to walk into a crowd of people and blow themselves and everyone else up. This is not the type of crime that would be committed in staggering amounts of cases by people who are disgruntled from poverty or politics. They align perfectly with what the Hadith says. The people who committed 9/11 were not oppressed or uneducated people. They were very sane, smart, and well-educated men. Again, I don't believe these people are insane or evil. They are religious. Religion is what you need if you want to make otherwise good people do evil things.

Because you are forgetting that those "few demented individuals" are not "demented" at all. Most of them are perfectly sane, even well educated individuals with professional degrees (as in the case of 9/11). The only difference is that these people are so convinced of the validity of their religion that they are following its prescriptions to the letter. You also grossly misunderstood what I was saying. I was not blaming 9/11 fully on all of Islam. I was saying that I could engage in the same type of obscurantism to excuse the acts of the hijackers by forgetting everything they did. That is what Jimmy Dasaint is doing with religion in general. Every time you try to link religion to years of blood shed and death, you get these people saying "well, you can't blame it on religion, its more just politics and a few bad apples who did it." You can have crusades, inquisitions, and all sorts of other barbarism that fully aligns with what the holy book teaches, and people will fully dismiss all the brutal things religion influences and claim that religion is still positive and good. I'm saying, yes, its good when fully take away all the crap that it has influenced and just focus on the small amounts of positive things it has influenced. This is classic obscurantism and flat out denial that there is any link between the doctrines and the acts. My point was to show that I could do that with the 9/11 hijackers if I just forgot about all the stuff they did. Nothing I said had anything to do with blaming anything on Islam, so your argument IN ITS ENTIRETY did not even remotely address what I said in the slightest. You're addressing an argument I did not make. Besides, even if most of these things weren't due to religion, religion still does not help things. They are debunked beliefs, based on debunked books, with debunked principles. You have to split hairs to find any teachings in them that are even useful or positive to modern civilization. Even the good parts are nothing special and don't offer any teachings that we don't already know or couldn't have derived from some other source or just through living and learning.

Jimmy Dasaint, that is an unbelievable amount of obscurantism and flat out dismaissal of thousands of years of barbarism, violence, and lies committed by religion you are doing in order to convince yourself (and attempt to cinvince us) that your position is justified. I could justify the 911 hijackers if I just excused all the planning, preparation, beliefs, intent, and the acts themselves, but my dismissal and denial of the hard facts and reality would be plain for all to see and my euphemisms wouldn't fool anyone.

I just took this free online IQ test. I'm not sure which tests are accurate. 122 was my score. Go figure

I'm not "thorough" or a "perfectionist". I'm of low intelligence. Listen, I've taken many different styles of IQ test and always score in the marginal to low category, I've always been terrible at school despite trying very hard. I've failed three full years of college and been expelled for poor performance. I have plenty of good data confirming my low intelligence. It's not just the numbers I go by either. It's my interaction with other people too. Everyone else is so much smarter and more knowledgeable than me, even the most simple and non-intellectual people. I can spend several months or even years studying a particular topic, thinking I've got a good grasp on it, only to find that someone whom I know has never pondered this topic for more than five seconds in their life could school me on it. I often try to stay more informed and enlightened than the average person, but I'm not kidding anyone. Most anyone is smarter and more informed than me. It is frustrating. I'm a very incompetent person. I cannot even explain what I'm talking about, and even if I could, you would still be dubious of what I'm telling you. You just don't understand. I'm a very incapable and ineffective thinker. I try very hard, but I can never cut the mustard. I can't stand when people cannot concede a point I'm trying to make. You guys are grasping at fucking straws. If there were a test that said I'm 97% mentally deficient, you guys would look at it and say, "Well, there's still the other three percent. Just because 97% of your brain doesn't work doesn't mean you're not smart." That's how ridiculous what you're saying is. I told you my IQ scores were around 90. You guys know full well that is low. 90 is not average, it is LOW. I don't care what the standard says, most people score higher than what the standard says. The standard says that roughly 115-120 is above average, but in reality average people tend to score higher than this. 90 is mentally-deficient no matter what euphemism you try to concoct to make it sound nicer. I've proven my incompetence time after time with school, testing, and stupidity in everyday life.

Which God or "creator" do you think created the universe?

I think what it boils down do is that I'm not sure what to do with my life at this point. I'm obviously never going to have a relationship so that's off the table. I've proven not to be cut out for school, so I doubt I will ever have a decent-paying job. I also don't have any useful skills and am still currently unemployed. I've basically been a deadbeat for quite some time now. I'm not foreseeing many open doors in store for me. There's a part of me who wants to do something great, like go to a great school and become highly educated, but I know that every bit of evidence I have on this matter shows that I would fail at that project. I know a guy who was a physicist at Vanderbilt for number of years. He just blows my mind with how intellectual he is and how mathematical problems just solve themselves in his mind. I also have a cousin who attended Vanderbilt and Yale (albeit not for anything scientific, but still...). My brother is a very smart and accomplished engineer. I'm not sure why I've always fallen short in the intelligence department. I spend a great deal of time just sitting in my room contemplating my life, my future, etc. I have my moments when I go into full on depressed, borderline suicidal mode, and then there's times when I just want to say "fuck it, I'm going to do something great with my life." But most of the time the negativity wins. It seems like I spend most of my time working on this perfect algorithm for how my life is supposed to go, and no time actually making it happen. I'm such slow learner that I always think I have to think everything out, running through my brain dozens of times, before I actually make a move. I have a fear of failure. I'm not sure how most people manage to work so hard for hours every single day, and still manage to know and understand a variety of things very well. Most people who have way less time on their hands than myself are so much smarter and more knowledgeable on just about everything than me. I'm convinced that I'm just a dud of a human being. My brain is no good, and neither is my body.

You're stepping a little bit beyond the scope of the problem. This argument would be good if we were talking about me having an inability to hold a relationship for any length of time. Instead, what we're talking about here is girls not even noticing me or being completely repelled by the initial sight of me and never getting to that point of first conversation. So your argument cannot really be applied in this framework because we haven't gotten to the point that your argument addresses yet. The problem has very little to do with my selfishness because there is not enough time for a girl to evaluate this before she rejects me in each and every case. They all reject me out of hand without putting a second's worth of thought into it. It's just common knowledge that I'm not an option, I'm unworthy and invalid, defective and not even to be considered. That is the going consensus in the female community, or so it seems. You guys have never been a second in my shoes and everything you say demonstrates it. You talk to me as if I'm an average guy and I'm not. I'm not sure how to stress the point that I'm highly deformed, highly incompetent, and impoverished in the departments of sex appeal sufficiently enough that you guys can understand or acknowledge it. I've tried to put it lightly, but most of you continue to give me advice as if I were a real man. I'm a freak, so the normal advice you would give to a fellow average guy with normal sex appeal and attractiveness is invalid for me. That's just the fact of the matter.

There's also something about the freedom of being on my own that I like. I don't like to answer to people. I don't like to compromise my own desires. I like to do what I want, when I want. And since we live in a secular, liberal, free democracy, that freedom is perfectly mine to have without any commentary, argument, or opinion from anyone. lol

Its not my goal. I don't desire to connect with women. I truly was raising this as a scientific question. Besides, I still have problems with the online thing. I think its okay if you've already acquired dates the real way. But if you've never had success the real way and you resort to this, I think that's just an indication that you need to hang it up. That's just my opinion and its not going to change. Besides, I don't think the online thing will help me one bit. I'll have to upload a picture and that will put all bets off immediately. I don't think the people here are giving my shabby looks and low sex appeal its due credibility. There's no girl (not one) that would ever want to date me, both for visual reasons and mental. I'm just not a desirable mate. I'm a dud, and a defect. It really is that simple. I'm not hating on myself, its just the fact. I've got 25 years of observed evidence to confirm this being the case.It is assumed from the very beginning by women that I'm undesirable and therefore the thought of possibly considering me as a date or mate never even gets considered. Its cool, I'm over it now. I also don't think you realize how deficient I am intellectually. I'm not just going off of the recent IQ results. I've always had trouble in school, math, reading comprehension, etc. The IQ results were not surprising to me at all, but I already knew I had intellectual challenges before taking the test. I've also taken other IQ tests before with similar results. I usually don't even break 100. I think a big part of the disconnect with women (and people in general) is my lack of wit. I'm a very slow learner, and very slow to pick up on things in colloquial conversation. I attended college directly after high school, spent three years there, and never made it beyond freshman status because I failed everything. There's nothing I could really add to a conversation with a woman, let alone a long term relationship. Let's just be real too, no girl is going to look at me and get horny and want to go home with me so she can have sex with me. Its just not going to happen.

Lol...and the state of KY is a piece of shit too for supporting this sinister nonsense. I'm not one to protest and picket, but if KY starts trying to work field trips to this Ark park into its public school policy, I will up there protesting their asses. This shit is uncalled for in 2016. We should not have to worry about religion impeding public life and policy anymore. Have your beliefs, erect whatever monuments you want in your own yard or in your own house, go to church as many days a week as you wish, pray until your heart's content, etc etc etc. But keep your voodoo out of our government and public policy.

Great article. I'm going to share it with my ignorant friends and family who always deny science on issues that negate their religious beliefs and call scientists "arrogant know-it-alls", but are fine with it any other time. lol

That's very kind of you to say. I've never thought of myself as an articulate communicator. Pretty inadquate actually. Lol

I only have an IQ of 90-100. I know, I took an IQ test recently. That is borderline mentally deficient. I was surprised by it actually. I knew I was on the lower end, but not this low. I've always shown signs of being intellectually challenged. I failed statistics five times back when I was doing college and I still never passed it. My interest in science is purely that, an interest. I have no talent at it whatsoever. I wish I did, but I don't. Sometimes I think about checking myself into a rehab or a hospital and just letting them take care of me for the rest of my life. But I'm not disabled or mentally-challenged so it wouldn't work. Since I don't work, and I don't really like the outside world, that life just seems nice to me. And I'm not sure why people think just because looks matter that you're looking only for a "trophy wife/girlfriend". Looks matter to most people.

Well, its not due to anger issues. I don't have anger issues. I already said I was drunk. Stephen Hawking is a genius. I'm borderline retarded. Big difference. Besides, I don't really want companionship for the sake of it. I want a quality woman. One any man would want. When it gets down to the "there's this man who's blind, deaf, and deformed and he found a woman who is exactly the same and they fell in love" bullshit, you're just grasping at straws at that point to make anything of that other than sad and pathetic. I know its harsh, but its true. Anyway guys, I feel that this thread is becoming circular, so I'm going to withdraw. I appreciate the help and kind words. If someone could delete this thread, that would be great. Thanks!

Gets millions in tax incentives from state of KY for an openly religious-themed attraction aimed at teaching creationism as fact. Then turns around and discriminates who he hires based on religion and views on women's rights. Unbelievable! Ken Ham is a total piece of shit who will stoop to the lowest levels.

Think what you want. All I made this thread for is to explore a very profound example of human natural selection. The case just happened to be my own. I'm sorry I insulted you. I've had a bit to drink tonight. I'm going to bed now. I'll pick back up with this thread tomorrow.

And I'm the one making hasty generalizations by focusing on only a portion of the evidence? Even if what you think of me is true, how do you know I started this way? How do you know I wasn't made to be this way? Your paragraph was incoherent and made no sense whatsoever. And I could not link either of your posts to anything that was said before it, or to anything having to do with anything that was being discussed. That crap bugs the hell out of me, I can't help it. Either make sense or go away. That's just my personal feeling on that.

What the hell are you talking about? You know what I hate? When someone starts talking random bullshit out of the blue like you two are now. Seriously, what the f*** are y'all talking about? I seriously do not understand one bit of this paragraph or what the hell it has to do with the topic of this thread.

Ghosted? I'm not familiar with that term.

I know this thread was created a while ago, but I thought I'd answer anyway. Intelligent design is religious because it is purely an effort to make something that is complete junk and garbage science look valid and scientific in order to serve the religious agenda of its proponents. When you unpack it, its just another attempt to get God back in schools. That's it. A supernatural designer or "creator" cannot be deduced out of nature, so the whole proposition (like religion) dissolves with a few very simple arguments. It is purely a religious endeavor. The Discover Institute is purely a religious think tank. Its just a more cunning and crafty way of framing the religious talk so they can try to sneak it into public school policy. That's it.

I've been reading the posts in this thread, and I just wanted to add my 2 cents. While I think most religious folks do have good points when say that cruelty and death have been committed both in the name of god(s), and not in the name of god(s), on both macro and micro scales, I think they miss the point of the argument in the end. The point, at least to me, is to show that believing in the religion does not actually gain anything for the society in question. If anything it has proven to do much more harm than good. Sure, you can make an argument that religions do charities, relief aids, etc. But the real harm is that which goes largely unseen and unheard. The teachings of religions are replete with unfalsifiable, untrue nonsense just to put it lightly. Things like child indoctrination and religious teachings impeding into science education bear heavy consequences on a world that is trying to understand the nature of reality and how to live within it. The charity part is not something that one must accept ancient nonsensical beliefs on poor evidence in order to do. The second part of this argument most religious folks miss is the fact that, if there is a God behind all of this, then the centuries of blood-shed, death, torture, plagues, inquisitions, rapes, honor killings, sectarian wars, genocides, tribalism, in-group/out-group and anti-science committed in his name are very good indicators that this God has failed at the project of establishing a peaceful and adequate message to deliver to his children. It seems to me that religion wreaks of being man-made. All of the tell-tale signs of something being man-made are manifestly evident in religion. It couldn't be more obvious. Of course, this isn't to say that you aren't perfectly welcome to believe in God, or that people are stupid for believing in God. As an atheist myself, I really don't care if others believe in God. I just want people to accept science where it has been proven, and to do their best to make their decisions based on the most sound and empirically-based understanding of reality possible. I really do think the Abrahamic religions have overstayed their welcome and their expiration date is far overdue. I'm not advocating for some "new age" voodoo to take its place, but I would like to see those who still want to remain believers to move to a more "reason-based" view of spirituality (if there is such a thing). That's my opinion.

I hear about these people a lot. I'm still wondering where they are? Again, I go back to my former roommates, the two normal, good looking guys. Its not just their physical traits that are superior, its their mental traits too. There is a mental edge they have over guys like me, a wit that makes them attractive to a woman. When I'm in the presence of an alpha male, the female always seems to become more desirous of him the more he displays his dominance by bullying and degrading me. It has happened to me countless times. It is very predictable too. You can literally see the female getting increasingly turned on by it. I've seen this happen all my life. Women are portrayed as only wanting men to love them, and not being concerned about looks or sex appeal. NONSENSE. Women have absolutely ZERO conscience or concern for feelings when choosing mates. They don't give a good god damn whose feelings they hurt or even if a guy kills himself over them. I think they get pleasure and satisfaction out of it personally. When there's another guy in the situation vying for her attention, and he's attractive, and he's mistreating me to score points with her, the girl loves it and is turned on by it in every scenario I've ever seen. Having to resort to meeting women online is an admission of being inadequate and does not solve the issue. If anything, It makes the issue manifestly worse. The same is true for a prostitute. I would even be willing to bet that a prostitute would either turn down doing business with me, or would drastic increase her prices for me. The situation is that bad. Once again, I've digressed from the original intent of this thread. I suppose bringing up some these personal experiences does revive some hard feelings. I've moved on from this though, and it really doesn't bother me anymore. I wouldn't take a girl now if she threw herself at me.

I find it funny how people think its just that easy. No matter how much I try to stress how abnormal and exceptional my case is, they continue to ignore me and say things like "its okay, just get out more." Ahh... The luxury of being normal. Why don't you tell a blind man all he has to do is use his eyes more often and everything will be ok? It would be no more ridiculous than the bullshit you just said to me. I resent your dismissal of my issues and making light of them, then suggesting all I have to do is get out more and talk to girls more often. Do you not think I've tried this before ad nauseam? Were you not paying attention to all the examples I provided about my experiences with girls and the negative reactions they've had to me? I find it fascinating how little of their brains people employ on these matters.

I've had too many examples of women directly telling me they think I'm unattractive. Even with the ones I don't hear from, their actions and behavior indicate textbook signs of dislike. They avoid me and act as if my presence in the room is ticking seconds off of their life. And its no matter what I do, or how I act. Happy, sad, mad, kind, rude, humble, cocky, outgoing, introverted, etc. This does not seem to affect the results at all. I think it is simply a predisposition by women to assume the position that I'm undesirable and therefore not even an option to consider. So the women completely ignore and/or treat me poorly. I don't even go in public around women anymore. Even though I find it fascinating to watch Darwinian selection in action, I just don't go around women anymore. I don't want to disturb them.