koti

oh, I like that.

I will stay in my cheap condo and keep betting my money on the non-existence of flying pink unicorns while being pissed at the ones who preach they do exist. Good comic though (I think)

I think its both. Acquiring purely scientific knowledge obviously has to make you question the ridiculesness of religious dogmas and cultural knowledge makes you understand the mental mechanisms which rule religious beliefs. As for my case Im sure I would have turned full on sceptic despite my work, travel and my interests in science. Like I said I was never indoctrinated and I have progressive parrents. As you get older black&white goes away and you do start to notice the shades in between but I dont think that age is the key factor in becoming or not becoming a sceptic.You ask why a fact for you does not make it a fact for the other guy - its many factors including the ones in between my lines but they all boil down to one thing in every culture and every environment - fear. If I had to narrow down to just one type of fear it has to be fear of consequences of being rejected by your family and friends if you dare to question God. Religions exploit this fear brilliantly. Amongst small, subtle irrelevant differences the only big difference between a cult and a religion is the number of worshipers.

Yes, I do know why. I wrote in my previous post that it was a process. Acquiring knowledge was the main factor. Let me ask you a question...why do you want to know how to turn a believer?

No. Im saying I was always a sceptic and considered myself agnostic till my mid 30's when I became atheist and having insight to other cultures might have had something to do with it.

I was a sceptic since I can remember. I come from a non practising christian family, 99,9% population in my country are christians. I considered myself an agnostic untill I was in my mid 30's when something snapped in me and I realised I gotta stop lying to myself and start to treat my innerself more seriously. It was a gradual process, between the ages of 26 and 35 I travelled 30+ countries and engaged with a variety of cultures and mentalities. I suspect that this might have been a reason but I certainly don't feel that way. I was never directly indoctrinated by religion in my youth, both my parents are very progressive. I have to say that since my "trurning" my life got a little harder. Firstly, I get pissed off more often. Secondly I have to keep my thoughts to myself more often and thirdly, the religious evil which was always around memin my environment became more apparent and noticable. Wow, this is some story man. This takes gutts, gotta hand it to you. "Experienced miracles" and "evangelised people" ? Thats some serious shift you went through in your life.

Ofcourse. But this is a thread on "how to turn a believer" and lets not turn it into "was Jesus a real person" thread which is endless BS. I disagree with aplying probablility to pink unicorns. We aren't exactly a perfect species and theres not much to be proud of but we should have a certain level of dignity flowing from the progress that we've made for the last 160K years.

You are comparing science and religion. Science and religion have zero correlation and they do not mutualy exclude each other because they are totaly different concepts which have nothing in common.

Since day one of the elections I see a resemblance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA&feature=youtu.be

jfoldbar, as for the title of your thread I would start here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Lets rub our feet together.

Asking the right questions is equally as important as the answer itself especially when dealing with complex subjects. It would have been so much easier for me to ask if spacetime curvature is frame dependant or not. Dang. Delta, youre right, my evident error, ofcourse its 1/6 G and 1G dependant on frames. I didnt want to deviate into lenght contraction and time dilation and it ended up that I decided in my mind that curvature is independant of frames. Thanks everyone.

I'm particularly interested in what happens with gravity in our two established frames of reference. We've established that on earth which is at rest mass and 1G I would weigh 200 pounds and that on the accelerated moon which is also at 1G but due to inertial mass I would weigh 33,3 lbs. I'm curious what the spacetime regions occupied by those two frames would look like gravity wise. (Note that both the earth and the moon have the same diameter like you proposed in our earlier experiment)

Okay, let me make sure I get this; We have two frames of reference: The earth and the moon, both same diameter and our real world masses. Earth is at 1G at its rest mass, the moon is at 1/6G at its rest mass and is being accelerated to inertial mass resulting in 1G. Will spacetime regions occupied by those two frames be identical or not?

Mordred, we were talking about a 1kg fast moving steel ball with a relativistic mass resulting in 1G and an earth with a rest mass resulting in 1G. Was your post #11 a slip up or am I being dense again?

Lets forget about the observers and relative velocities. My original intention for this thread was to find out how spacetime curves "around" rest mass and relativistic mass. Just to be sure...Extremely high relativistic mass of an extremely fastly moving body of a small rest mass could not lead to the formation of a black hole or could it?

Phew...thats a relief. That stands in contradiction with Mordred's post #11 though doesn't it?

Okay folks (Delta), youre not trapping me into the what is moving in reference to what, I get that. What bothers me is that both celestial bodies, now its the earth and the moon abducted by aliens and accelerated to 1G inertial mass like Strange proposed which is probably a more "down to earth" example (lol) I will weight 200 lbs on earth and 33,3 lbs on the moon at 0,5c. The question is will both frames have the same effect on spacetime curvature?

The planetoid is moving at 0,5c. Case 1. I'm the observer on earth, I weigh 200 lbs and I see a planetoid moving away at 0,5 c Case 2. I'm the observer on the planetoid, I weigh 200 pounds (?) and I see earth moving away at 0,5 c.

Assume an empty universe with earth, a planetoid travelling at 0,5 c which has an innertial mass of that of earth at that velocity and me with a rest mass of 200 pounds. Planetoid and earth have the same diameter and are far away from each other.

Okay, Im confused. Both frames (planetoid and earth) would have essentially same effect on spacetime curvature around them like Mordred said yet they would affect my mass differently? Lets assume that Im walking on a planetoid which is travelling at say 0.5 c.

I know now (thanks to Mordred) that I would weigh 200 pounds on the accelerated planetoid.

I did. I posted it in #3