metatron

I have on several occasions attempted to introduce systems theory into the discussion on evolutionary process, but have been told that this view point is pseudoscience, so I am seeking some feedback on what is considered systems science and what is considered pseudoscience on this forum. These are my primary sources for what I have been postulating relating to my model on “archetypal descent” steming from my discovery of the “vesica attractor.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Self-organization and the Science of Emergence (Koestler, Salthe, Von Bertalanffy, Laszlo, Haken, Eigen, Prigogine, Cohen, Turing, Von Neumann, Conway, Holland, Goldberg, Langton, Kauffman, Thom, Gell-Man, Varela, Fuller) http://www.thymos.com/tat/emergenc.html Tensegrity I: Cell structure and hierarchial systems biology Donald E. Ingber http://web1.tch.harvard.edu/researc...Tensegrity1.pdf -----------------------------------------------------------------

This sight you refer to as "psydo-science theories" deal with the work of these scientist, do you believe them to be psydo-scientist ? (Koestler, Salthe, Von Bertalanffy, Laszlo, Haken, Eigen, Prigogine, Cohen, Turing, Von Neumann, Conway, Holland, Goldberg, Langton, Kauffman, Thom, Gell-Man, Varela, Fuller)

Try this one and more on the work by Dan Winter http://www.heartcoherence.com/

If you have been keeping up with my early post and still find that it is pseudoscience, this field of study is not going to interest you . And that’s fine. I myself, find many theory’s that are in the mainstream of science completely without merit, and will not lead to a better understanding of the world, and will not contribute anything to the betterment of mankind, In fact some of our outdated paradigms have become down right destructive. Maybe I’m just not being clear enough about what this new model shows about life. This work should open the mind to see what life is really doing besides just surviving. It shows how life collects information in certain way’s. I believe these way’s can be synchronized and amplified in such a way that we could not only vastly improve our bio-cognitive functions, but can also be directly integrated into modern communication systems. If you sincerely want to understand this theory, you will need a good understanding of systems science-chaos theory-catastrophe theory, this does not mean that you understand the definition of these, but have endeavored over long periods of time to develop a lens to see and assemble information from a systems perspective. This then will help you to form a language to describe these dynamics, that I am merely hinting at here, and on my original post on the “vesica attractor.” Try to read some of the work done by these individual on this site; http://www.templeton.org/humbleappr...amberedNautilus This is a link to a picture of a Chambered Nautilus and a poem. This time move your mouse in an upward direction. Remember information is not only to be constructed to contain a single idea, but more importantly to be left open to capture additional ones.

Quote: Living systems primarily relate to the world though a wave function,

I assemble information from many sources, but not just from others work, but my own as well. Though direct observations, and studying present text. Here are a few sources. http://web1.tch.harvard.edu/research/ingber/PDF/2003/Tensegrity1.pdf http://www.soulinvitation.com/heterofi/heterofi.htm http://freespace.virgin.net/ch.thompson1/Essays/PWA.2colApeiron.pdf http://www.fractalwisdom.com/FractalWisdom/fourattr.html http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2177&program=CSC%20-%20Scientific%20Research%20and%20Scholarship%20-%20Science http://www.templeton.org/humbleapproach/complexity/default.asp#TheChamberedNautilus http://www.thymos.com/tat/emergenc.html http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/1402/EvolutionOfComplexSystems.htm http://www.calresco.org/attract.htm

What is known about evolution, is that life changes over time. What is not thoroughly understood is how life accumulates this information. We can see by the fossil record that their is not only a pattern of change but also a morphological mean or stasis over long periods. We have stated that the controlling factor in this pattern can be traced to random mutation and natural selection. However current models do not reflect the fossil record. If natural selection and mutation has such an effect on morphology, why then does in remain so perfectly stable then suddenly take such leaps. {punctuated equilibrium } Some in the scientific community have acknowledged this gradual process of natural selection and mutation, may not account for the stability and sudden change in morphology, Also there exist a major disparity in the appearance of these original phyla level body plans. According to the fossil record, they have no record to the past, and intermediary’s between each other. Simply put we understand evolution about as well as gravity, electromagnetism or quantum mechanics. No matter what anyone says, their still exist in science today a major disparity between our map of the evolution and the actual territory of the fossil record.

Living systems primarily relate to the world though a wave function, this is not pseudoscience. The basic metabolic process, and bio-physical structure that define what is living from non-living reflect a wave-function firstly. Bio-chemistry represents packets of information caught in a wave dynamic. The heart does much more than just pump a renewing pulse of chemical energy . It is also sending out a pulse of information in the form of embedded waves to the cells . The heart not only connects to the cells in a duct-work of veins, arteries and capillaries. It is simultaneously connecting the body in a network of resonating relationships like music. This music is based on phi, our bodies structure is based on this math, The way life multiplies is based on this math. This math is found in wave patterns. It is a curve, that captures and compress information. platonic solids can contain chemical information in packets but cannot move this information in a life like way. Abiogenesis is not the result of the some mysterious alchemy { pseudoscience } or some extra-terrestrial origin, panspermia {pseudoscience } Abiogenesis is simply a point when chemical organization integrates with the quantum field. This seems the simple answer to the question; what is life? Life is a wave. life is music, the platonic solids are the individual notes, the wave is the melody. Love is a wave of the highest resonance. Its source is the heart.

soul The central or integral part; the vital core:

Quote We must guard ... against thinking of every event whose cause is unknown as “acausal”. This ... is admissible only when a cause is not even thinkable .... [when] a cause cannot even be postulated in intellectual terms. In biology development is emergent (layered in distinct, successive levels of complexity) and self-organized (at each level components assemble themselves spontaneously) (Tresan, 1996a). Hence I suggest causal or rational explanations for the phenomena which are central to analytical psychology. A causal explanation is reductive when it points back to simpler antecedents. For example, my flush is caused by the dilation of blood vessels. But a causal explanation need not be reductive: it may point forward to a higher level of complexity (Sperry, 1994). For example, my flush is caused by the possibility of new intimacy with another. [Jungian Analysis and Biology], Maxson J. McDowell In other words I am merly suggesting the heart is where the soul connects to biology.

Welcome Sadako; I can tell you have studied systems theory, great! we need more of this veiw point around here. I'm going to go ahead and post this since this fits so well with what you are saying. The universe designs networks of finer and finer connections. Biological \cognitive systems are the finest of these networks, embedded inside a whole hierarchy, like layers of an onion. The First layer we theorize was the big bang. This initial pulses of sends out waves of energy and atoms that curl into points of swirling matter. At the center of this points vortices form. From these black holes implode sending out a second pulse a gravity waves. These waves curl into points forming stars bound into the matrix of the galaxy. This structure contains a balance of forces enabling all points to interact though gravity. Some stars explode then create complex elements in a third pulse of energy. This assemblage of elements curl into a yet more complex internal matrix of solar systems. Now the stage is set for pre-existing possibilities to form networks of life. Life and Intelligents will manifest though the natural flow patterns inherent between waves and elements. The elements will firstly juxtapose themselves one to another forming simple chemical matrixes, organic molecules. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In other words complex systems have their origins by drawing information from the prior system they are inbedded in. System emerge from within systems. Once these systems become self-replicating it can continue drawing additional information from these outer matrices. This is the purpose of why living systems behave in this way, this instability enables the system to collect information in mathematical process {Algorithm iteration} therefore the system builds more and more internal complexity , patterned after its surrounding matrices, or Environment. By the way, this {Algorithm iteration} can be found eminating in one of these outer matrices prior to the formation of life. Light waves

If I had to define love in a scientific context; It is when or heart muscle acquires a shape that allows a resonance throughout the body resulting in certain biochemical responses. The most intense of these states is called rapture. If you never experience rapture it can be described as an orgasm of the heart. This phenomenon seem to happen to individuals at unexpected moments. One thing I could tell for certain is this force hits like waves of “love energy” that seems to want to dissolve your physical structure. Another distinct feeling is that this force is emanating from a conscience entity. This feelling seems to act as a carrier wave embedded with in the “love wave” Imagine your first true love, now multiply that intensity several times over as you dissolve into a waves of love. I really believe now.. this is what happens as we pass on from this world into the next.

Gravity to me represents the way the universe at large balances itself , being a ubiquitous force keeping all other forces interacting in the most basic of way's. This is the main way the universes communicates information across empty space. As for as separating the gas from the rocks, pressures deep within the primordial earth resulting from gravitational forces would certainly separate out the water. The very early earth probably was completely covered by water, the first cells appeared almost immediately, I tend to see this layer of water and simple cells as more of an differentiated catalytic layer, somwhat like the ozone layer although much more complex. More closely related to the planet system rather than to a biological system. We always tend to think of these first cells in terms of what they are going to become rather than what they represented at the time, just another layer of organization between many others. The next stage occurs as these micro-organisms start changing the chemistry of the lithosphere [the rock below] These micro-organisms fix calcium carbonate into the sea floor. These layers then became subducted into oceanic plate margins. These subduction zones became engines powered by the highly reactive carbonate rocks that initiated the system of plate tectonics, that subsequently led to the development of shallow inland seas that spawned the first complex life. This life then evaded the continent creating the ecosystem we see today.

I’ve made several post on my fossil discovery, and subsequent evolutionary model, [Archetypal descent] that states complex life was spawned by central life forms that catalyzed instantaneously when environmental thresholds are reached, just prior to the Cambrian explosion. One thing that jumps out at me from this new model is this. It appears we may not be the dominant life form on the planet! According to my interpretation of this fossil, in the context of the fossil record. Their exists in each of the phyla, a nested hierarchy. A central life form, or life forms, acting as a sustained information bank for the phyla, and we are only on the periphery of this hierarchal system. Curiously This view point has never been considered. We may only be back seat drivers in this path of evolution and only think we are tending this planet. It appears we may be the tended. I do realize this may to some to reflect the religion view point, but not really. I arrived at this view though scientific investigation though the lens of systems theory, which I consider my main school of thought. I’m still left with the fact that once again we find our selves not at the center of the universe. I just wonder who will try to burn me at the stake first…… The scientist or the creationist.

Planets form from accreted star dust after the formation of the central second generation stars. The planets closest to the center accrete heaver elements' date=' while the outer planets form from the lighter elements being blown outward by solar winds. Keep in mind we only have our own solar system as an example. Life will form in what has been dubbed the “Goldie locks zone" close enough to the sun to form liquid water instead of ice, and far enough to keep the water under the boiling point. This zone will insure the formation of oceans, the cradle for the first single cell life to form. Complex organic molecules do form in space and fall to earth. The primordial ocean chemistry is now set for the formation for the first simple cells. At this point science is at loss at explaining what brought these complex self-contained self-replicating system together. However I will venture a possibility; Their seems to have been an almost complete over-sight of two other factors for the beginning of life. One that could energize and kick start this metabolic process and the other that would stabilize it into a self-replicating structure. [Electromagnetism and Light waves']

These are two books everyone should read in order to separate pseudoscience from the latest view points emerging from system science. Carl Sagan The Demon-Haunted World : Science As a Candle in the Dark The Web of Life : A New Scientific Understanding of Living Systems

panspermia is in conflict with every phase in the origins of order in the cosmos. Systems evolve from within systems, in a nested hierarchy…….. One stabilizing the other. http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11027

I can’t see this as worthy of attention, but fair enough there is always a chance that an assumption may lead to an unexpected direction, as long as one keeps all options open and lets the information lead us more than the original a pre-conceived notion.