EvanF

Well I didn't put in "gravity laws" I put in "gravitation laws"... People usually call them Newton's laws of motion... That was the only one that wasn't an exact equivalent, being 91 and 191, so it's not the best example.

Here's a little wiki article if you don't know what gematria is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria Even though this is a topic usually associated with the bible in modern times, in reality it predates the bible and I have absolutely no religious intention behind this thread. I was going to make this thread in the mathematics section, but this is something a bit deeper than simple equations. Gematria is a system that gives the letters of an alphabet numerical value. It originates in Babylon and Greece, (who of course used mathematics and algebra.) Anyways, there are certain strange synchronicities between words and their numerical values. For example: Ocean=38...tide=38 Germs=62...disease=62...plague=62 guilty=94...innocent=94 trade=48....buy=48 hawk=43...fly=43 Newton=91...Gravitation laws=191 the moon landing=151...one small step=151 Puritans=118...Mayflower=118...Atlantic Ocean=118 Indo European=137...West Germanic=137 There are also even consecutive values for certain related words: human= 57, beings= 56 sun=54, shine= 55 witches=87, cauldron=88 You can type these words in yourself or mess around with the English gematria calculator here http://www.gematrix.org/ Now these are just a few examples of the strange nature of gematria, but it seems like the chance that all these words would just happen to numerically relate to each other is almost astronomical. For anyone who is versed in the 'mathematics of the universe' and theoretical physics, what is your opinion on this?

In terms of 'evidence based' material on the origin of races...you're not going to find much. We can only theorize and speculate as to why humans apparently evolved into diverse groups. But the typical explanation is that around 70,000-50,000 years ago, modern humans started to migrate out of Africa, and the different climates they migrated into 'shaped' them into the different races....for example, Europeans evolved white skin to adapt to the forested cloudy environment of Europe...(but of course that still leaves a whole lot left to be explained.) Recent research also suggests that almost all modern humans genetically descend from a single population (presumably coming out of 'Africa') roughly around 50,000 years ago.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/science/ancient-dna-human-history.html?_r=0 This further supports my Cro magnon theory(s), but I won't go into that too much more for this thread. All the different groups of homo erectus/archaics around the world didn't ALL just happen to evolve into modern humans and different races independently. Rather it was a small distinct group that rapidly evolved and surpassed the archaic groups and became the 'ancestors' of our modern species, then they spread out into the world. Homo S. sapiens are a divergent line apart from most of the archaic groups. That's for example why there are Homo erectus remains that date to as late as 70,000 years ago. 100% of archaics didn't just universally evolve into modern humans, in fact, most of them did not evolve much past homo erectus. It is presumed through some research that many Europeans and Asians have a small amount of Neanderthal DNA. Though it's probably incorrect to assume that literally "ALL" Eurasians carry neanderthal DNA. You are assuming neanderthals were "good looking"...which is not likely. They were quite different looking than us. Just look at the comparison picture I posted of a neanderthal and modern human skull on page 1. Neanderthals likely could not talk or express/socialize in the same way that modern humans could...So the idea that neanderthals and modern humans just went around romantically mingling together consensually seems quite silly and unlikely. Neanderthals were not more culturally advanced than the European modern humans at the time (40,000 BP)...In fact, that is most likely the reason that neanderthals went extinct, because they could not compete with the technology of the Cromagnons/modern humans, who had ranged weaponry like advanced throwing spears and atlatls.

Not really sure why you would come to the conclusion that all the racial distinctiveness of modern humans was already in place over a million years ago with homo erectus... It was likely much later (roughly around 70,000-50,000 BP) that modern humans started to become 'modern' and developed into diverse different human groups. More than intermingling, our species likely 'wiped out' the archaic humans, as is what happened with Neanderthals in Europe. I don't think modern human groups consensually intermingled with the archaic groups, at least not to any significant extent. Most modern day human skulls look more or less the same, with only slight differences...showing that we all descend from a common species/ancestor. There were some isolated modern human groups that were 'over run' by archaics however...The Australian aborigines for example carry a significant amount of Denisovan/archaic DNA. There are also many European and Asiatic people that carry a small amount of neanderthal DNA. As far as "sub saharan Africans" being "our best singers"...that's quite a subjective opinion. The first musical instruments actually originated from Europe (40,000 years ago.) Neanderthals were not more culturally advanced than true modern humans (cromagnons.) Burying dead bodies is not necessarily equal to being advanced. There are basic/practical reasons why you would bury a body, for example to keep the body from smelling and attracting dangerous predatory animals, just to give one reason. As far as Neanderthal hair...By what logic would you conclude that our two species lost all of their hair at the same time? Neanderthals and homo s. sapiens were two divergent species living in two separate climates. I don't think they had quite as much hair as a gorilla, but there is a likelihood of neanderthals being quite hairy, not just because they were archaic humans, but because they lived for thousands of years in ice age Europe where hair would be an obvious adaptation/advantage.

I have no "stated beliefs"...only possible explanations. You need to stick to talking about the appearance of Neanderthals, and stop trying to hijack this thread.

I can't help the faults of your own personal perception. You also have to be more specific in which "claims" you are referring to. You seem to be making assumptions and arguing against something I did not put forth.

Speaking of what is logical...you're setting up a blatant false dichotomy and misrepresentation of what I said. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman I don't speculate. I only deal with evidence. You've gone so far left field, I'm not even sure who you are trying to argue against at this point. Stick to talking about neanderthals for this thread.

Are you alright? I was replying to DrP. In no way did I specifically endorse or initiate any of what you are implying. You have misinterpreted what I said, or perhaps you misunderstood what I said. And now you've even gone to the point of misrepresenting what I've said to the point of being offensive. The N haplogroup of the quite late Cro magnon (24,000-25,000 BP) being related to so many human groups was simply to show you what I meant by the Cromagnon types being the 'forefather' of many modern humans/much of our modern species. Obviously that SINGLE 'cro magnon' could not be the forefather of literally every human group, as the 'modern types' that spread around the world were made up of a few 'diverse' groups coming presumably out of Africa. And here's your most basic misunderstanding...I talk about science, evidence, and theory, that is all. This is not a politics or religion forum. If you don't want to talk about science or neanderthals and hominids, then you have nothing more to add to this topic.

"Divine intervention" sounds kind of silly...though there are many wild theories out there. In terms of evolution theory, it rather 'smacks' of some kind of rapid genetic changes/evolution, which is actually evident when studying human DNA. I'm not sure what you mean...This discussion has nothing to do with "morals." You must have misinterpreted something I said. But anyways, we need to stick to mostly talking about Neanderthals for the sake of this thread.

It's not just a "little more modern" it is almost a whole 20%-50% more anatomically 'modern' than the African skulls,(Idaltu, Kabwe, etc.) It's only "earth shattering" in the sense that the mainstream consensus keeps repeating that anatomically modern humans were in Africa 160,000+ years ago, which could only be considered true in a very vague sense. The finds of the Bombos cave are kind of interesting, but really not much different than other archaic finds. Neanderthals also made "line artwork" and chipped tools as well.https://phys.org/news/2014-09-hashtag-evidence-neanderthal-art.html But this isn't anywhere near the level of art seen in the Upper paleolithic that consists of advanced figurative, complex, and symbolic expressions. In that sense the findings in the Bombos cave are not really a cultural revolution. The upper paleolithic contains the first undisputed advanced artwork, musical instruments, anthropomorphized figures, evidence of complex thinking, etc. That is a real cultural revolution and evidence of significant cognitive change. 70,000-60,000 BP in Africa also roughly connects to the appearance of modernity around 50,000 years ago, with modern types theoretically starting to emerge...it's just that all of the archeological evidence is more supportive of around 50,000 years ago with the Cro magnons. I don't know why anyone should have a phobia of a Euro-centric model, if that's what the evidence largely supports. However, "Cro magnons" most likely emerged from tropical north Africa, as archaic indigenous Europeans had not only tropical body proportions, but also darker skin, both of which modern Europeans no longer have. http://www.livescience.com/42838-european-hunter-gatherer-genome-sequenced.html However, certain parts of north Africa are also connected to Europe by Spain, and thus could be considered 'part of Europe'...East Africa is part of the middle east, and thus could be considered part of the 'middle east' and eastern Europe...In that sense, trying to pin it down to a certain continent almost becomes meaningless.

Cro magnon1 is around 30,000-32,000 year old, but the oldest Cro magnon type skulls date to around 45,000 years old, of course coinciding with the upper-paleolithic revolution. There could possibly be much older Cro magnon-type skulls around Europe, North Africa, and farther east, but there is little archeology being done looking specifically for early human remains around Europe. I mentioned haplogroup N just to help you understand what I meant by the Cro magnon group(s) being the 'forefather' of many modern human groups. It doesn't exclude all Africans. North africans are connected to haplogroup N. Haplogroups are kind of vague though. I believe that there was an older divergent tribe of 'cro magnon'/modern types that was also the forefather of 'South' Africans that went through Africa supplanting the older archaic humans. There were many groups of archaics running around Europe, Asia and Africa as late as 40,000 years ago...There were even Homo erectus types in Africa as late as 70,000 years ago. Cro magnon is anatomically 88% similar to modern day humans and definitely representative of our modern species. The skulls found in Africa like the Herto(idaltu) and Kabwe are quite 'archaic' in their appearance and range from only 70%-50% anatomical similarity to our modern species. http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=jca *Edit sethoflagos. You said that "We" were in Australia "LONG before" the earliest Cro magnon date... Actually, the general time period of modern human migration to Australia just happens to coincide with the earliest dated Cro magnon remains and the Upper paleolithic, which led to larger human populations,(40,000-50,000 BP).

"Cro magnon" is not a taxon because they are considered to be a Homo sapien sapien by mainstream classification. Cro magnon1 was the oldest skull that is anatomically closest to our modern species. A later 'Cro magnon' skull that dated around 25,000 years ago was related to almost all human groups through haplogroup N. When you say "we were in Australia before the earliest Cro-magnon date," I think you might be referring to archaic homo sapiens and Denisovans. http://www.abroadintheyard.com/denisovans-discover-australia/

No. Cro magnon likely came 'out of Africa.' Trailer parks across America don't even know what a 'Cro magnon' is. And who knows...maybe George Bush has some neanderthal ancestry...

Lol, DrP...You just went there. No worries, this is a science forum after all, not a politics forum. It's not surprising there are many people alive with 'primate' looking features...we are 'primates' after all. I couldn't really tell you though... the more 'primate' looking features are possibly due to being slightly less related to the 'Cro magnon' root group, which was possibly the 'forefather' of many modern human groups that spread around the world and replaced the archaic groups. If you look at the Cro magnon1 skull, it has basically none of the 'primate' like features of archaic humans, which is quite strange... I believe the 'Cro magnon' groups were at war with the archaic groups like the neanderthals, which ended in the neanderthal's extinction, but the neanderthals didn't exit without leaving some of their DNA behind through cross breeding...However, our species (for the most part) is still significantly different looking than other primates. In terms of evolution theory, our species was a divergent group out of Africa (or elsewhere) that went through some kind of freak rapid evolution that not only increased our brain power significantly but altered our features from looking like archaic primates. It's telling that certain tribes of people at the distant stretches of the earth have some the highest concentrations of Denisovan/archaic DNA, etc...because that is where some of the last remnants of archaic groups survived the H.S.Sapien replacement/'Cro magnon' invasions. However, a modern day African skull is still quite different looking from a neanderthal skull/archaic skull.

That's of course what is most likely.

Yes I understand that, and what the experts can tell from studying the Omo skull is that it is a very thick skull only found in archaic humans. Experts can tell a lot more if they have the whole skull. They could, for example, do more accurate measurements and comparisons of the brain/skull, which they were able to do with idaltu. For this thread I thought it would be better to focus on the Idaltu skull for comparison, because it's at least semi-complete. The omo skulls were dated to around the same time as the Idaltu, so they were possibly even the same sub species of archaic human as Idaltu was, as their skull shapes resemble each other. My approach to this isn't "subjective" (though from reading just the first page I understand that some people might get that impression.) There has been linked several different objective/quantitative measurements in this thread, and on this page alone.

Not sure what you are referring to as "gibberish?" Let me know if you need help understanding something about my points. The incompleteness of the Omo 1 and 2 skulls simply prevents being able to examine it completely in this context. I could cut the top off of a neanderthal skull and claim it as the oldest modern human since in a vague sense it looks like the top of a modern human skull, but there are more things to examine than just that... For example, scientists have recently classified neanderthal as a completely separate species based on studying it's nasal cavity. So I simply moved on to the Idaltu (herto) skull which was at least in a semi complete state that can be measured and compared anatomically to a modern human . The point I was making about the skull incompleteness had nothing to do with carbon dating.

That's what I was thinking.

Ran across this last night on YouTube...I thought some people here might find it entertaining. Right in the beginning I noticed something that's typical of the 'christian truther' movement when it shows the 'human evolution' picture with a big 'X' on it saying "NO FOSSIL RECORD FOUND"...They really don't know that we have all kinds of even well preserved skulls of hominids like Homo erectus which are undeniable. However one thing in the video I didn't really have an answer for...and that is starting at about 10:12 there is a rocket strapped with a camera that just stops in mid air with a 'thunk?'

You're making the assumption that it was consensual. Neanderthal's face size and features were a bit more similar to 'lower' primates than modern humans. What makes modern humans unique/different from neanderthals/archaics is that most modern humans are quite anatomically distinct looking from other primates. Though the idea that neanderthals were just a bunch of hairy gorilla monsters is of course a bit of a stretch. Depends which part of the brain you're talking about. In terms of just general size, neanderthals had bigger brains than modern day humans, but not bigger than what modern humans had 40,000 years ago (cro magnon.) Technically speaking, modern humans have larger temporal lobes, have a wider orbitofrontal cortex, larger olfactory bulbs, and larger paritel lobes compared to neanderthals/ archaic humans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3619466/

It's not a matter of wanting. Modern humans are the closest thing there is to a "god." Christians and muslims are looking up to the sky or in their middle eastern story books for some higher power that unfortunately hasn't made it's existence undeniably known to us. But they sell themselves short, they give their 'power' away so to speak, because if you want to see 'godly' just look at what human beings are capable of. Just think about it...the whole reason you are typing on a super complex computer right now is because of the amazing intellect of humans beings.

Randolphin. By "God" I'm assuming you are referring to the middle eastern deity known as 'yahweh' in the bible? (little known to most christians, the hebrew 'name of God' is actually a secret word and is never to be spoken.) In that case...I must ask...Why don't you believe in Odin?

Well of course "beauty" is hereditary. There are certain features that are more or less seen as universally attractive (for whatever reason.) And these features will be passed down from the parents. However one of the parent's features/genetics could counteract/ be dominant over the other parent's attractive features. What is "beautiful" and what is "ugly" can essentially be tied down to specific physical features...two parents with 'unattractive' features are of course going to create a child that, for the most part, has those same 'unattractive' features. It's not likely for 'ugly' parents to produce attractive offspring...(though of course what is "ugly"/unattractive can be slightly subjective.) But because of genetic variation, two 'average' looking parents could have attractive offspring. Since much of attractiveness on a basic level essentially equals facial symmetry and proper facial gender dimorphism, 'attractiveness' could also be somewhat random...that's why one kid of the same family might be more attractive than the other.

I've been personally studying schizophrenia and cases of it for a few years now, I find it quite a strange and interesting phenomenon... I noticed you were from israel...apparently the individuals in israel have a genetic predisposition that gives them a very high chance of developing schizophrenia and severe depression...http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.560128 If I may ask, Eldad, how did the voices first start? Did they start out telling you to do negative things? Did you have a problem with 'Depression' before the voices started?

I'm not just talking about the last 100 years...However, for all you know we very well could have evolved intellectually (in a biological sense) over the last centuries. Let me put it in a more simple way...More than 1 million years go from Homo erectus through 'archaic humans'...nothing too significant is created outside of simple stone tools. Then you have around 40,000 years ago out of nowhere the appearance of the first advanced/complex art and culture going through to ancient civilizations which created the most complex things (art, technology, religion, architecture, writing, etc) that have ever been seen on the planet...If that's not obvious evidence of a cognitive change, I don't know what is.