Butch

I agree. I agree, however quite often(if not always) abstract ideas are the starting points.

Battery dying, I hope you enjoy our discources as much as I. Thank you all very much I agree.

It does not surprise me that you feel that way, abstract thought is quite important... Literalists like you, however are quite important to keep us in line(which of course you do an excellent job of.). Ok, what is matter, is an electron matter?

I agree.

Yes, after all there are much more important directions to take.

I don't think so, Einstein has always interested me greatly. What brought him to GR was wanting to peek over the edge. The question that he pushed was "If I traveled at the speed of light and turned on a flashlight...? The same question grade schoolers ask everyday. I disagree, it was his education that put the question in his mind, and the solution was an abstract image... Then came the math(Which he did need a little help with, and many thought him a fool to pursue something so much on the edge, when there was much more important work to do, after all Euclid certainly knew better.).

Then what are they? I can "see" mass as em, as moving the center of charge in a universe filled(I did not say flooded) with em would meet with resistance.(Just an example of a possibility).

Ok, excuse my ignorance... If it is not em, what is mass, matter and charge? Well, this is one of the bleeding edges, I recognise that and I understand why... I don't mind being thought a fool... Those of you old enough will understand that. I just see the edge and have a strong desire to peek over it. It was not math or education that took Einstein to GR, those are the things that allowed him to share it with the world. What brought him to GR was his ability for abstract thought... I do have that ability(it makes me a very good fisherman.). I can see some things with my mind's eye, I do have some formal education, I obviously need more. If indeed em is everything we perceive, we can go to the singularity of the black hole and perhaps beyond... If we cannot agree that em is everything, we can at least pursue a singularities effect on em(I believe to the singularity itself... or even beyond that). Ok, lash me more if you wish.

Have I been mislead? Just looking for an approach to a singularty that we can go further with. https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/113717-particle-nature-an-illusion/

Not possible, it is a relative thing...

Ok, consider this... My education in qm is very short, however I have gleaned the idea that all the forces... Indeed EVERYTHING... Is the result of em. What happens to electric fields as we approach the event horizon? Taken even further(I think we can do this Swansont) as we approach (calculus fish again) the singularity?

I would say that time is a frame of reference... We measure it with a "clock" a clock being a reference standard, that could be anything which has a constant period. Indeed they do, they also measure things that are not periodic. https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html

Could an atom be rendered into constituent particles by a black hole?

Is any of this possible if gravity is indeed the weakest force? How? Please educate me... Dr. Hawking did not mind being wrong sometimes. More than anything he did, he spurred exploration... RIP.

No, Michio.

Sounds like crack pottery... But it also sounds like qm, however he did not micro as far as that. Do you mean the realm of Dr. M K?

Stephen Hawking in applying qm to Singularities states that at the event horizon a particle and anti particle are condensed out of empty space by the energy near the event horizon. These particles are entangled then separated at the event horizon... This is covered in the article at this link: https://athensscienceobserver.com/2017/02/08/the-confusing-world-of-black-holes-and-quantum-mechanics/amp/ Isn't it much more likely that at the event horizon relative effects at c convert "things" into a relatively infinite energetic state(infinite frequency field?) as they pass and convert them back on the far side of the event horizon? My thought is perhaps they are introduced into another universe where they would be manifested as the CMB of that universe.

I am going to have to study some on this, these ideas are not something I have given thought to contesting before. Atoms and molecules... Even compounds and macro structures are not held by gravitational force only. Thank you, Strange you have me thinking.

I will grant you that such forces might kill a living organism, you will have to go further to convince me of the destruction of matter... Time and space are being affected by a gravitational force that follows the inverse square... also we must factor in initial momentum of the visitor and the angular momentum of the black hole. Perhaps Mr. Hawking would have something surprising to say on the subject. I see distortion along a path, not destruction of matter or even of a system. Of course everything about the path would be relativistic, no? Perhaps this deserves a topic? Let us not forget that ultimately we are speaking of em fields when we speak of matter.

Torn apart in pieces that are how large?

You mean at the point where we have no knowledge of what happens? Check your math, after all forces near a black hole are relativistic, if you were an observer within the same frame as the car and the magnet you would not notice anything unusual... Who is to say you could not survive the transit?

Black being the absence of any reflective properties (reference black bodies).

But the tearing(stretching actually)would be uniform, although the dimensions would change the car would still be attracted to the magnet, no?

Thank you, found a proper link with proper info... No need to keep this topic open.

Please forgive me if I am rehashing something, I really tried to read all of this post... Gravity appears much stronger than the other forces of nature because it has the greatest influence on our normal scope of experience... A simple proof that gravity is weaker is that a magnet can lift cars into the air. I believe this would hold true even in a black hole?