Air Between The Notes

Just because one say's with authority in their voice & has a following of others standing behind them that chance is the source of everything does not make it so & so you need much faith to bolster one's ideals in nothing x's much time ='s everything, ex nihilo nihil fit because there has always been something in the form of Someone, lol various amounts of faith for either side

Yet nothing gains in knowledge without an input of data, so where does the data come from for a creature to improve upon itself? Chance? Really? You need intellect acting upon something by adding data at the (bio level we speak of now) for some"thing" to gain the ability via "gained attributes" to move onward & upward but that all takes information within the original creature to build it's self up. How does that happen when we know there is no way simple things learn how to sustain, fix, reproduce themselves without the data from within themselves & all the supporting mechanisms within that are needed to build various functions within a creature. All the info is within & never is it added to unless added by a higher power never chance as chance is just a word not a force of causational power. All we see in large print around us within natural history is a loss of data via species disappearing all the time, not new one's exploding onto this field of existance.

Things can shift in attributes within their kind but there is no moving from ones pieces/kind to another & so it takes faith to believe it can happen

Your speaking of test tubes here &/or intelligence forcing it's will via knowledge upon something not naturally occurring changes that can withstand the elements/veracity of life in the real world's challenges.

I believe the world would be a far better place without religion as religion is a man made thing & so it can never come to any good when the ideal is all based on imperfection's actions/works trying to get that imperfection changed into perfection or out of existence so as not to have to address the reality of any imperfection in the 1st place.

No one was present to see the original nor has anyone observed evolution and with so much design designed into Creation I don't see how the theory of evolution is anything one can swallow without much faith there is no evidence of a major species change from one type to another. Then how about the faith needed to accept that everything has always gone on as we see it now and so we have naturalistic based science faiths all based on what we see & that never has anything (say other than the bang) ever been moved upon by a force other than the ones we see at work in nature before us but yet a Supernatural force changing things through a world wide flood explains much that is no harder to believe than fossil fields or clay & oil coming about over long periods of time when what we know about these things all points to catastrophe to Create, not one little bug's body at a time falling upon another over vast periods of time to add up to pools of power for man to fight over.

...& this is life as we see it from nothing? Without any information to start building from to boot? No, your examples are learning & applying said learning, that is completely different.

Ok, say you decide to live a debauched life while in power over your people & spend all of the "peoples" resources on yourself but to keep the peace you party allowing all to join in. Years of such actions can make people lazy, damage the collective knowledge of how to think of the greater good of the collective & rather focus on their individual wants/desires, toss in sickness with no resources to fight such a thing in the form of no one of talent recognized to help because they are not of the inner circles, countries moneys spent on fun in the sun selfish people looking to replace the debauched leader so they can have their own fill plus along comes some natural disaster & drought with a land plague. What do you have? A mess started out by a fellow choosing to serve himself rather than this people who he has now dragged down the drain with him. Look into history, this sort of thing happens all the time, the outcome of one man's freewill now punishing many generations to follow. So that is a countrywide suffering example & indavidually? A one night stand & now you have AIDS, that is a pretty serious degree of personal suffering caused by your own actions. Or how about heading south without vacinations because you don't like needles? You play it safe as you can but one ice cube & hepB is now your companion.

We should definitely be looking into how it all works but do we look over fundamental building blocks in order to support a particular theory we want to hold onto or go beyond ourselves? That is my challenge here, move beyond a desire to see everything though sunglasses who's shading only allows for chance causing everything when design is so evident. Do we say we looking at a tuba? Someone designed that thing & experience shows us it is used for making musical sounds. What do we say when looking at a skyscraper with all of it's glass, metal & cement formed into something pleasing to look at? Someone designed it & after walking around inside to even more wonders we understand it's workings & functions we see even more design! Then off to the airport & seeing the people load onto a 747 with all of it's 6million parts, watch it taxi out & takeoff into the air do we wonder after seeing & feeling it's power do we say "Wow! What a wonder of evolutionary chance!",? No we see design or what about a cloned sheep do we stand in awe at how the animal made a carbon copy of it's self? No, we see higher intelligence has studied systems & applied the knowledge learned.

...and yet faith is very mu called into the idea of the odds of evolution in the 1st place, nothing x's by 20billion yrs ='s everything, where did the information come from in the 1st place to make proteins or organize them, empowering chance as a causal force, so much Data needed & out of thin air? we have never seen fossils formed except via an event like Mt. Saint Hellene & yet the giant fossil fields around the earth were laid down on fish & a time over many, many years, everything has remained the same forever & therefore we can extrapolate over great amounts of time something we have never actually witnessed because we KNOW everything is as it has always been, etc, etc...it just goes on & on needing so much faith to accept the basic building blocks it is all built upon. That is pseudoscience as true science builds upon or measure what is observable & repeatable not ideas of something we can't reproduce which is a faith in end in a religion just the same as any other religion's need of a certain amount of faith to follow.

I understand that challenging the status quo is hard, I have been there myself & learned much from looking deeper (which is really just the simplest of things on the surface), are we using any kind of true science in the assessing of the world around us, we have to give the fundamental doctrines that "scientific"theories are based on a walk around. Now "if" one sees no holes in the theories that everything is built on & no need for such order, complexity, probability, beauty & logic to point towards a thought out processing of building & are able to swallow oder out of nothing with no original input of information to build it all then....take ahold of your faith & live out your religion because either way we will need to do just that no matter which side of the outcome we land on as faith is needed unless you want to just completely give up all logic & common sense.

He does not & it is not His will but He does allow us freewill to do as we please & so it is our actions that cause this death, why are you having such a hard time seeing cause & effect?

You asked which ones I am challenged with & so I answered you, dig in & see for yourself or stay where you find your comfort my friend.

What if your box is based on more lies than the one you think I am in? Look to it's roots (science) & see where the building blocks may be not able to support the weight of the structure we are saying that it can? That does take honest looking & not just looking to support where you want something to take you. Man wants free of The Creator & so pseudosciences come about but you have to be willing to be honest with yourself 1st, which I have done despite accusations & preconceptions, be honest with yourself & challenge what you see in the 1st place not just accepting what you are told. I put it a a life long challenge to us all & don't just try to keep ourselves comfortable in the direction we are choosing to go.

But I am not, let us apply some grey matter into a freewill & how the choices we make can affect not only our lives but the lives of so many to follow us, is that so hard to accept our actions & how they can set generations on a path that would cause grief to so many?

Nothing x's by 20 billion yrs (& growing) ='s EVERYTHING!, everything has continued as it is forever (almost) & so we can base all of our projections on such a timing, fossils (dead things) were laid down over long periods of time & that such a thing is even possible (one body at a time coming to rest over long periods to pile up into such large fields of bones in rock), that the mathematical averages are even remotely possible for evolution, all the Intelligent Design seen in EVERYTHING is just by chance ( as if a scrap metal pile could evolve into a 747 with it's 6million parts or an explosion in a printing shop filled with paper, ink & random printing blocks could land into your hands a complete dictionary), where did all the information come from in the 1st place to put a simple cell together as in not just the parts but all the sub parts & info needed to assemble the subassemblies needed to come up with the finished product, that it could come about out of a primordial pool on it's own (Darwin had no idea of what a cell really was & was challenged by his conscience continually that it could all fall apart in the simplest of cases), how does his jelly in a pocket theory not be fried by the sun's UV's, that all of the guys postulating these original ideals that we are building everything on top of or out of were very clear that the reason they were doing it was to be free of God as Creator & not have to bend their knee to His protective laws for us....that's a start for you.

Science is a great thing! It is not the Creator, just a way of observing the fallout of the various rules/laws laid out for us to see order & outworking of a very Creative Mind.

The fallout of our freewill & where our choices can take both us & successive generations but have you ever thought about how many we kill via choice so we can have our sex without the side effects that can come from it? Globally we are racking up some pretty impressive #'s our selves, directly through our own actions individually (well two people really), with out the clouding of time that can hide why a certain peoples group is in the particular situation they find themselves in.

Faith is the key boys in any religion including much of science based hypotheses.

Thanks & I you in a genuine search for truth.

We return to God before the age of accountability (around 13yrs or mentally challenged) afterwards we are held accountable for our actions.

That maybe, I am just trying to challenge our thinking out of the traditional boxes & hiding behind the word science or religion can defiantly be boxes.

We are allowed to make our choices in this life & there is fallout from that, what's the problem here? How about stop spending so much money on special interest groups & do something of import for the Anglo's? Really, we have knowledge. of problems but do we do anything about them? Or just ignore, complain &/or use them as examples to push an agenda?

Sure, that works & so ask our various book writers to show us of their existence in the runnings of this world in all honesty & sift through the results.

We are talking of clay telling the Potter He doesn't exist as He forms us in His hands....kind of childish. It's not an attach or put down to non belief just our finiteness compared to Infinite Perfection, how can we begin to get our heads wrapped around such Power?