Royston

Yes, it's still lying, for the reasons I pointed out earlier...it has nothing to do with that particular pill why the patient will feel better, I couldn't convince you my hat will make you feel better, but if something looks like a drug and you're paying for it, the packaging looks legitimate then I'm tricking you into thinking you're receiving treatment. It's a lie, whichever way you look at it, plus it's not tackling the condition directly...the placebo effect is yet to be an exact science. Why not just say, go home, eat some fruit and get some rest, it's the perfect antidote. Why not educate people on conditions such as common colds, flu et.c rather than giving them fake pills...it's bad practice. Remember, trust is paramount when seeing a doctor, and this news just doesn't raise confidence with the trust a patient should have with their GP. There definitely needs to be more information on what type of patients are receiving placebo, and why. I'm slightly baffled by what's being administered as placebo, as things such as packaging, appearance of the drug et.c have to be convincing, surely pharmaceutical companies don't make placebo pills ?

I'm more concerned with the reasoning behind the worry, and JohnB provided another example of 'post hoc ergo propter hoc', i.e a vaccination primes the immune system to cope with a virus, my child has developed asthma which is an allergy response, allergic responses are triggered by the immune system...therefore the vaccination caused my child's asthma. Remember there are a wealth of magazines, and newspapers that feed on 'what the public want to hear', by preying on the 'worried Mums' fears, it's the perfect recipe for misinformation, and it's this type of feedback loop that is the perfect catalyst for situations such as the MMR scare. Albeit the source was from a shoddy medical journal, but it takes a small amount of doubt, to get the ball rolling. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame anybody for showing a level of concern, but when it comes to health, I feel there is simply no room for jumping to conclusions. The Daily Mail (British tabloid) are a prime example of a paper that use this tactic on a regular basis, and were key players in the MMR scare...here's a link if you're interested. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj;331/7525/1148

It's natural for a parent to worry about their child, but it's certainly not logical for them to worry if that fear stems from their own assertions. Linking the use of vaccinations, to the effects of an over active (well, perfectly healthy) immune system (which people that suffer from allergic reactions have) is obviously jumping to conclusions. The only people that should have a voice in such matters are the experts, not worried Mums.

You may be interested in the three projects put forward for the JDEM, 'Joint Dark Energy Mission' the dark energy projects over the pond part of NASA's Beyond Einstein programme, which includes five missions, the study of dark energy being one of them. These include SNAP 'SuperNova/Acceleration Probe', DESTINY 'Dark Energy Space Telescope' and ADEPT 'Advanced Dark Energy Physics Telescope.' SNAP... http://snap.lbl.gov/ Article on DESTINY... http://www.universetoday.com/2006/08/04/dark-energy-mission-chosen/ and ADEPT http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_Selects_ADEPT_Space_Mission_To_Probe_Dark_Energy_999.html

Just found this, very interesting. A number of simulations have been run by the COSMA super computer at Durham Uni, the results will aid in the design of the satellite for the future 'SPACE' mission, which aims to understand dark energy. Please see the full article below... From the article... The tiny ripples are called BAO's or Baryonic Acoustic Oscillations, which similar to the background radiation (CMB) are the sound equivalent... emphasis mine http://www.dur.ac.uk/news/newsitem/?itemno=6038 Below is an overview of the 'SPACE' mission, from arxiv... http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0710/0710.3970v1.pdf

Considering this already appears to be the case (the OP) it doesn't seem to be working too well. It would be nice to know what's being used as a placebo by practitioners, if it is anti-biotics, then this clearly is a concern. I can sympathize that GP's want to get patients out the door, but are regular, persistent patients being told that their last few ailments were cured via placebo ? That's the only method I can see of the patient waking up and seeing that their condition/s aren't genuine. However that just runs the risk of them seeking alternative medicine...but I guess that's their problem. I still hold, whether the use of placebo works or not, that treating a condition be it genuine or not, with an ineffective drug is still unethical. If a patient is constantly ill due to some psychosomatic induced condition, then they should be treated for a psychosomatic induced condition...not tricked by some fabricated cure...unless as you stated, it can be used to weed out the genuine cases from the hypochondriacs. It just seems that isn't the case.

Sure... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6923577.stm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070805141533.htm I had a quick search through ‘science direct’, but the only relevant journal (specifically left handedness) dated back to 1993, perhaps somebody knows of something more current. As for the OP, mere correlation, I realize it's not a particularly serious thread, but I very much doubt there's any link to left handedness and the prerequisites to becoming President...as Swansont stated, too small a sample base.

The gene responsible for left handedness 'LRRTM1' is linked with certain mental disorders such as schizophrenia, perhaps there's a link there i.e you have to be at least slightly insane to have designs to be President of the US.

Have you been watching 'Atom' YT ? 'Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?' Oliver Heaviside Edit: YT2095: Yes indeed I have, second time now, I love that stuff

The problem with the placebo effect as treatment, is that for it to work, the patient can't know it's a placebo effect. So effectively they're being tricked into believing the treatment disguised as the placebo effect works. This is where it becomes unethical, because what treatment will be more effective over another...well there isn't one treatment more effective than another e.g faith healing over homeopathy. So it boils down trying to convince the patient this type of treatment is better than another, when they're essentially the same thing, and so conning the patient into some preference, and ultimately parting with their money, and relying on a one-size fits all ailments approach. I wonder how many people that believe in faith healing or homeopathy, have sought the same treatment when proper medication should be used...as was pointed out earlier, this becomes dangerous with more severe conditions. But that aside, the administration of treatments that rely on a placebo effect, is dishonest, even though it needs that requirement to work. As it's only effective for minor ailments, I feel that's unethical...i.e it's unneccesary for the amount of money that's made, and the potential risks.

There is no ideal too virtuous, no belief too sacred, and no theory too elegant, that can't be reduced to the tackiness of a bumper sticker.

Umm, obviously I (and probably everyone else on here) will agree that making claims that a vaccination has adverse effects, without a shred of evidence is ludicrous. I'm a bit confused about what you want to discuss here though. Incidentally, I'm just recovering from Flu B, so was considering getting the vaccination. In the UK, Flu outbreaks have hit an all time low, in part due to vaccinations (no surprise there.)

Just to clarify for angieelahhs benefit, as t is already known ( 2 s ) then you need to rearrange the entire equation (see Capn's post) to make Vo the subject. That will give you, how fast the ball needs to be thrown to be airbourne for 2 seconds.

Deleted...point was already covered EDIT: Don't think I've seen such a rapid debunking of a speculation...5 mins no less

I think your machine should communicate through the medium of dance.

Four Laws by Peter Atkins, a book on thermodynamics The Void by Frank Close, which is a book on nothing...started reading this already, it's first chapter discusses vacuums, but I believe it will lead onto the 'how do you get something out of nothing' question. I also got a new fx pedal for my guitar (Line 6 Pocket Pod.) Chocolate, T-shirt, 2 bottles of vodka (nearly finished) and a dialysis machine

A virgin girl is on the phone and asks her boyfriend to come over and have dinner with her parents. Since this is such a big event, the girl announces to her boyfriend that after dinner, she would like to go out and make love for the first time. Well, the boy is ecstatic, but he has never had sex before, so he takes a trip to the pharmacist to get some condoms. He tells the pharmacist it's his first time and the pharmacist helps the boy for about an hour. He tells the boy everything there is to know about condoms and sex. At the register, the pharmacist asks the boy how many condoms he'd like to buy, a 3-pack, 10-pack, or family pack. The boy insists on the family pack because he thinks he will be rather busy, it being his first time and all. That night, the boy shows up at the girl's parents house and meets his girlfriend at the door. "Oh, I'm so excited for you to meet my parents, come on in!" The boy goes inside and is taken to the dinner table where the girl's parents are seated. The boy quickly offers to say grace and bows his head. A minute passes, and the boy is still deep in prayer, with his head down. 10 minutes pass, and still no movement from the boy. Finally, after 20 minutes with his head down, the girlfriend leans over and whispers to the boyfriend, "I had no idea you were this religious." The boy turns, and whispers back, "I had no idea your father was a pharmacist."

Tsk, I did advise you to phone customer support if you weren't satisfied, admittedly you may be on hold for a while, say, a few years...plus there are a few forms to fill in to qualify for a refund. These may take a while to get to you, seeing as we're in the UK, and considering the mode of transport of our courier service. Once we've received the completed forms, the dispute process will start, unfortunately we have quite a backlog where this is concerned...BUT BE PATIENT! If the dispute resolution is in your favour, then we'll send you your refund, unfortunately by that time (quick calculation) oh, you'll be dead, sorry Phi. If you need any further assistance, please don't hesitate in contacting us. Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year ! *We did have a website, but the homepage took approx 19 years to load, and this guy died of starvation whilst waiting, there were a few legal matters, it was a bit messy all in all. PS. I'm at work, hardly anybody is here, and I have simply nothing better to do.

I think that's a must for us post pub posting people...ugh, try saying that when you're drunk. I like iNow's idea of a limited font size for sigs...there is simply no need for THIS !

Bump ! Just to wish all on SFN, Happy Holidays, and a prosperous and fruitful New Year !

Not rocking as such, but definitely my kind of thing... some Dave Tipper... a bit more lighthearted, Electric Six 'Synthesizer'... and some live Squarepusher... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3kahyXb4yw

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned suicide cults, which are obviously an exception to the OP, and to any social / economic rewards that have already been mentioned. Suicide cults, however, are an exception in themselves. There was actually an interesting / baffling documentary on a current suicide cult in the states, albeit the leader keeps changing the dates of Armageddon. Thought it was worth a mention nonetheless.

Oh, I don't recall submitting that post yesterday, I'd had a few ciders and reading back on it, I thought I was just stating the obvious, and didn't think I pressed the submit button. Sorry about that, plus I'm not sure my points are correct anyway, except the remark on Faraday...ummm, back on topic

Personally, I can't see how you can apply Occam's razor to the disparity between QM and relativity...unless you want to use it to reduce some of the more radical interpretations of QM, but even then it doesn't work. It reminds of the problem Faraday faced, i.e do bodies cause action at a distance, and the idea of fields was introduced, perhaps reconciling QM and relativity requires a new, perhaps radical way of viewing the universe. Perhaps there's a parameter that becomes more random at smaller scales, and causal at larger scales, but I havn't come across anything like that in any of the math I've studied. It is however, probably a good question to frame. Even if gravity can be described at the quantum level, what would that say about the effect of gravity at larger scales ?

I've played that a few times, do you have the shot glasses chess set ? Or have you come up with some alternative rules ? My house-mate has the drinking chess set, though it's in storage at the moment. Might be worth getting out for Christmas. http://www.shotglasschess.com/rules.htm