Royston

Well yeah, hence my comment on feeling capacity. Obviously aesthetic appearance has nothing to do with it (that's what I thought Phi was getting at...dolphins are beautiful.) Why is killing a butterfly any worse than treading on a dung beetle. I'm really more concerned with the culture argument. With extremes like the video, how far can you take the 'culture' argument. As I said before, I'm not adverse to meat eating, I'm not going to turn veggy, but I am concerned with what we don't know, and what measures are going to be taken to ensure the correct treatment of 'what will eventually arrive on our dinner plate.' I hope none of this is coming over as preachy, or activist, because that's not the intention.

Umm, you were right about the earth and moon rotating at different speeds, but that's about it AFAICS.

Well, if it was part of the American culture to slice a cows head half off, and leave it twitching until it bled to death do you think there would be the same outcry, probably not (see bold). I presume you mean, it doesn't matter what the animal is...and I agree to an extent, but then it goes onto the feeling capacity debate. Sorry if I misinterpreted your point. My OP was really getting at, why do people use the 'culture' argument as a means to treat animals like that (if they're using methods like that in Japan, what else do we not know about). You hear arguments such as, 'well we've been doing it for generations'...so, they had public hangings for generations, I just fail to see why 'culture' justifies said act. I guess money, and the government not wanting to stamp out certain practices in fear of losing popularity et.c et.c And, yes there was an element of, this sucks, is anyone else aware of this.

Yeah I've heard of that, it's pretty neat. Maybe it's because I'm from the UK, but I've never understood the 'criminals will have guns, so should the general public.' Wouldn't it be better if an intruder was incapacitated by a weapon, that was as effective as a gun i.e as fast as shooting a bullet, but didn't kill (as already mentioned). It would have to seriously incapacitate the intruder, so they couldn't move, as far as they couldn't pull a trigger, but I don't think killing is a decision anyone should need to take. Obviously criminals will always be able to get firearms, (whatever source that may be) but is it really sensible to have their blood on your hands, just for breaking and entering. You have to think of the person doing the shooting, even if it is a, 'either them or me' situation. I certainly couldn't cope with the fact I took a life, whatever the circumstances.

The video is a few years old now, but unfortunately this is still going on in Taiji and I think a few other villages off the coast of Japan. They've recently built a perimeter wall following the video gaining awareness over the last year (IIRC), so it's difficult to take pictures / film et.c. As mentioned earlier, I believe it's against international treaty, but licenses are still available from Tokyo to hunt dolphins, which need to be renewed every year. However, the dolphin meat that's sold in Japan and exported to China et.c has been found to have dangerous levels of mercury deposits and could put a stop to the export and selling of dolphin meat...infact one of Japans major supermarkets has already put a ban in place. Although most people are aware of the animal treatment in certain countries is nothing short of disgusting, this video out of any I've seen, really gets the message across. I watched a documentary on the animal treatment in highly reputable farms in the UK e.g Norfolk farms, and it was shocking...and it's really making me think twice about grabbing the nearest pack of mince, or chicken thighs (oh the power of media) although I'm not adverse to eating meat, so long as I know the animal has been treated correctly, which although I was a little uncertain before, I'm feeling less and less comfortable about chowing down on a hearty spaghetti bolognese. Hopefully measures will be put in place, so the wellbeing of the animal is guaranteed.

Maybe you could describe what you mean by energy. I guess independent is one word for it.

Hate to break it to you, but they don't actually exist . I'm amazed nobody has picked a dinosaur, though being the only dinosaur on the planet would certainly have it's problems...perhaps a Plesiosaur, in a certain Loch, and you'd have celebrity status. Perhaps I should of emphasised, why do you pick that particular animal. That's really the point of the thread.

Fine, you can be a Tribble.

Aye, and loving it quite frankly. We had crocuses in our front garden late January...they're not usually due until late February early March. We had one day of snow, that settled (a few weeks ago), and today I was outside at lunch with just a t-shirt on...well, not just a t-shirt. But the weather 'has' been unseasonably warm, where I am anyway. UK (Southcoast)

No, not at all, don't get me wrong, it p*sses me off more than you probably think. I was furious after the bus journey I brought up earlier. My point being, even if we had compulsory tags on every citizen, plotting their every move, I can guarantee somebody, somewhere would develop a way of getting round it. A new technology comes out, criminals instantly look for ways of countering that technology. I'm not saying we should get complacent, or stop trying, but this is why I think crime is, and probably always will be, rife. The problem as Dak has illustrated, if you clamp down too much, then the control that ruling bodies will have, would mean they can impose laws through that medium e.g I have the same beef with I.D cards. They can impose restrictions using such tactics, so that everybody is treated as a criminal, and that's just not ethical IMO. No, but as I've said before in a thread (last year) I think, you need to find 'why' people murder, rather than just trying to stop it (which is obviously being done) e.g studying the psychology of inmates et.c Looking for behavioral traits in children, and treating those problems before they grow up into an axe wielding maniac. Until we have definitive answers at treating social problems at the source, it will carry on as temporary measures that will consistently be countered. Of course tackling such problems on a social level is just one aspect, economic problems clearly don't help. With kids on the streets et.c well they're just being kids...every generation has it's version of chav, loitering, bored and just want a bit of excitement. So you can move them on, but they certainly won't diminish into obscurity, like you've described. I'd love a society, where everyone treats each other with respect, and are well educated et.c et.c but it's not something that can happen just like that...we don't have the means or the knowledge to pull it off, yet, if ever. I'm not being defeatist, just realistic.

Edtharan has done a good job already, but maybe you should look up Hermann Minkowski, who developed Minkowski space, which extends from three dimensions to a four dimensional manifold, i.e time as the added dimension. So time isn't a seperate entity, but can be considered a factor of space geometry.

Who has just bought a copy of 'The God Delusion' Yourdad, how can you even be sure an extra-terrestrial exists, don't you think that might be a little risky.

I must admit, I'm still not getting the 'we accept' crime. In what way do we 'accept' it. It's just a case, as with my previous examples, there's little anybody can do to completely quash crime. Whatever laws, or restrictions are imposed, criminals will always find a way round these changes. I'll use another 'chav' example to illustrate my point. In the neighboring town where I used to live, there was a foot bridge over a river, leading to the beach (I lived on the beach.) Most Friday evenings, there would be a huge mob of pre-pubescent teenagers, getting drunk, and in some cases hurling abuse at passers by on the beach side of the foot bridge. There was CCTV on the mainland end of the footbridge, but not on the other end. Now after a couple of months, there were articles in the local newspaper and the monthly 'beach community' news (really quaint, had articles about cygnets as new arrivals to the local river et.c.) Anyway, the residents decided enough was enough...so every Friday we had police presence, and the chavs moved on. The chavs moved on to the high street, strategically positioned out of the sight of CCTV, and carried on, as any irrepressible chav would do. AFAIK, they've been moved on again, and they hang out near a train station (not the one I mentioned previously.) Now, if anybody 'accepted' their presence, they would still be at the end of the footbridge. This principle can be applied to a whole range of criminal activity. So I can't see crime as being rife due to acceptance, criminals learn from past mistakes like anybody else. They learn from previous criminal activity, and find better and more cunning ways of cheating the system. So how can you accept something, that you only have 'partial' (emphasis on partial) control over.

Heh, we had exactly the same problem in our last house, I put it to reaching for the toilet paper. It got to the point where the seat would slide left and right because it wasn't fixed in, which was a cause of many disaster after a pub and curry night. Don't ask me why we didn't sort it out. You should be able to get the fixings, I think there's universal sizes when it comes to toilets.

God ? Do you worship your pet rabbit or something ? It's quite a tough one for me, a top of the food chain predatory animal would be good, like a Great White, though they have quite a lonely existence. Or a Bonobo, intelligent and rather promiscuous...you have to make good of a bad situation. Flying would be awesome, so with all things considered probably a Peregrine Falcon, I could while away the hours doing impressive aeronautical feats.

So you've popped your clogs, and as you look towards a white light you hear a deafening sigh, followed by, 'well, you may think you've lead an honest and fruitful life, but I beg to differ, as punishment you must be reincarnated as an animal, not of human traits...' The upside is you get to choose the animal for your reincarnation, but as above not a human. So what animal would you choose, and why ?

I heard this on the news today, and immediately thought it was a first sighting...not so, the clouded leopard of Borneo has been overlooked as a new species for over a century. Please see the article below. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_sc/borneo_clouded_leopard

This ran through my mind at the time, and the little scenarios that go through your head of how you could stop it et.c. Unfortunately, you do need the help of others in that situation, and you can't guarantee that, and it's that uncertainty that holds you back. Also, you can't bargain with kids like this...they must of been 14-15, chavs to the bone, and I'd rather not get into a scuffle with a 14 year old girl, because they certainly didn't listen to any of the protests by the other passengers, it was just met with relentless abuse. There's a lot of crime committed by kids, and we're pretty much powerless to intervene, and as much as it would be great that everyone stood up, and escorted them kicking and screaming off the bus...people don't want trouble, they've been at work all day, they want to get home, have dinner with the family et.c It's sad that people don't stand together in such situations, but that's reality. I agree with the broken window idea, am I right that they used that strategy in NY, tackling petty crime, and it had a knock on effect (correct me if I'm wrong on this.) The policing in our local city has improved greatly over the years, a couple of years ago we were waiting for a taxi home, and a group of 20 or so teenagers decided they wanted a scrap...literally in 2 mins, the police arrived, very impressive, there was no time for anything to happen, and it does make you feel very much more secure. However these examples, and tackling more serious crime such as isolated murder and rape cases is a completely different kettle of fish, and you can't solve such crime by scrubbing away graffiti, and making a stand. If there are numerous murders in a certain area i.e gang violence, then the broken window idea, would certainly be a good start. If you improve the environment where people live, they 'should' in theory want to maintain those improvements.

I.E gravity is controlled by an invisible monkey with infinite arms, pulling objects towards other objects...that can't be shot down either, because it's non-falsifiable, so non-testable and therefore makes no predictions. It certainly doesn't mean it's correct, or that I'm 'on to something' with my monkey conjecture...quite the opposite.

I can't seem to find one decent animation of the earth / moon orbit, that will show spunnery exactly what's being said here.

Well who 'accepts' crime, except the criminal ? Also, there are numerous reasons why crime exist, poverty, upbringing, imposing laws incite people to break them et.c et.c How would you go about trying to stamp out crime, when there's so many reasons crime happens. If we're going to take your personal example, then I agree, there shouldn't be areas that have high crime rates, but families with little money and possibly poor upbringings are lumped together, and it's a recipe for disaster. So it stands to reason there are crime rates, because for a lot of people, in order to survive, they have no choice but to resort to crime. They're born into that way of life, and that's all they know. I certainly don't think it's accepted, even by them, but there's no clear cut solution. There's areas near where I live, that I'd be happier walking through Tegucigalpa at night, with a 'God Bless America' T shirt on, in fact I'd go as far to say, our local train station is the most dangerous place on the planet Nobody 'accepts' that this is how it should be, but policing et,c costs money, and you can't expect certain areas to have 24hr surveillance I don't mean just CCTV. Just the other day, on the way back from work...a couple of girls got on the bus, and started abusing people, throwing things around, stealing hats et.c Now it sounds quite tame, but everyone on the bus sat there in silence, and didn't do anything...that's just fear. There was an incident recently when this behaviour led to someone being stabbed, and nobody intervened...again fear. What exactly are you supposed to do in a situation like that, get stabbed yourself...so as much as I sympathize with your view, there's pretty much jack you can do about it. So I don't think anyone 'accepts' crime, there's just little can be done, and this is economic and social problems that cannot be remedied at the drop of the hat.

That's almost exactly what my house mate said, when I told him the next day

My dreams range from the utterly mundane, to the indescribably messed up. I've had dreams where I'm merely brushing my teeth, to fighting some sort of evil force where I have to manifest into something, more destructive and powerful to combat whatever I'm trying to defeat...I usually win. As you can imagine, the whole dream gets out of control, I've ended up being a huge ball of spinning blades roughly the size of a solar system...hmmm, slightly over active imagination methinks. A theme that does seem to crop up now and again, is that I dream I wake up in my bedroom, and believe I'm awake...and then the goal is to try and find out I'm dreaming by looking for clues et.c, this can happen several times in a dream, (going back to sleep, waking up...though all the time I'm dreaming) until I do eventually wake up. I posted one of my favourite dreams of this type on here sometime ago. One of the techniques is to try and fly, as soon as I do that, then it's obvious I'm dreaming, and the next stage of the dream will kick in. Another is serial killers, and houses filled with psychopaths is another popular theme, where I'm trying to escape, or sometimes trying to talk my way out of being tortured et.c, it can usually swing round that I realize I'm dreaming and I turn into some huge gun wielding robot and blast the crap out of everything. One that really sticks in my mind, is a combination of the two above...I woke in my bedroom, and there were loads of newspapers strewn around with the headline 'local girl murdered.' I then realized, this had to be a dream, because I don't have newspapers strewn across my room, I awoke again, and the same scene...this time I was trying to recollect maybe I did bring a newspaper into my room, so I read the article. The murder was commited by somebody dressed as a green chicken (the kind of animal suits that people wear when giving out leaflets.) A photograph slipped out of the paper, and I could just recognize that it was a photograph of my mates, but one of us was wearing the chicken costume. Are faces were blurred out. This was all a bit much so I went back to sleep, convinced this wasn't real. I awoke again to the phone ringing...and in the room was still the newspaper and photograph (where I had left it) so now I didn't think I was dreaming (I was of course.) I answered the phone, and my Dad told me to come up to my parents house. When I got there, I went into the back garden, and the girl who had been murdered, was hanging from an apple tree. Her eyes suddenly opened, and as I moved round the garden her neck would crack as her gaze would follow me. So naturally I got the hell out of there. I met up with my mates and we went to a house, to work out who had commited the murder. We were all sitting around discussing, and the conversation got more and more heated, and a lurking sense of fear and paranoia was building. The photograph, appeared to start to reveal the murderer (it was a bit abstract, can't really describe it) however it kept on changing as to who commited the haneous act. Suddenly one of my friends couldn't take it, and started attacking, scared of who it could be...he started beating one of my friends senseless with an object, then my other friend pounced on him, and had an axe in his hand. It ended with one of my mates hacking my other mates head off with an axe. Then I really did wake up. It took about a minute, when I really did wake up, to adjust to the fact I was really awake...and yes I did scan the room quickly for a newspaper. And there it was !!!! Err, no not really. It was a pretty messed up dream, nonetheless.

But, if it's hard to define person, how can somebody give a convincing argument that 'is' what they are...and I mean convincing, I've met people that would say, 'well, I'm a person, it's obvious ain't it', I wouldn't class that as convincing, and they certainly wouldn't be classed as having mental problems per se, maybe intellectually challenged. Not meaning to nit-pick. Just about to leave work, I'll try and think of something, but it's got to be pretty impossible to define, unless you have some degrees of freedom to the definition e.g mentally disabled person et.c

I meant revolving..., sorry I keep on getting interrupted. Yes, the earth and moon rotate at different speeds, so you're correct.