Handy andy

No I do not, however there are multiple papers published on vortex stability under different conditions, all of which I need to be member of an institution to get my hands on. Since I have not been institutionalized yet I do not have access to papers that may cover this. They would be interesting to read and may go some way to support the idea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The concept of space flowing towards a mass causing gravity, would have difficulties in that space needs to move away or disappear to allow more space around an atom. The concept of low energy gravitational bosons being emitted and absorbed seems to have problems around black holes. Nature has a habit of repeating it self on many levels. All the many different theories on gravity are all be partly correct. The graviton concept is one I wrestle with from time to time it gives rise to two directional flow. Bubbles rising from the ocean floor are less dense than the water they rise through. Any mass floating on the surface above a stream of bubbles will become less buoyant, and sink. The bubbles expand as they reach the surface. Hot air rises and cold air falls to replace it. Space if viewed as a liquid around all fermions and bosons will get disturbed by their movement. Could it be that space is boiled away from atoms and cooler space descends. Causing the appearance of stretched space, or a gradient.

Please do, the thread was started as a result of a speculation I bracketed and intended only as a joke, which your average English person would have understood, and not responded too. But due to cultural differences it was taken seriously and some poor responses were posted. Out of devilment I decided to engage. Apologies to all concerned. (The speculation was along the lines off what happens to multiple photons as they descend into a gravity well, or are absorbed by an atom, ie become trapped in a very confined space equivalent to their wavelength. Could they become particles?. Could fermions become photons on decay. Could multiple photons combine and become a higher energy photon) I sited electron positron annihilation producing gamma rays, the thread has gone progressively downhill since it started, it isn't even amusing anymore). Please lock the thread. It wasn't my fault I couldn't help it someone else started the thread not me

Not being of the religious sort I would disagree with your statement about giving life meaning. Apparently at the fall of Jerusalem during the first crusades apparently a Coptic Christian talked to the people defending the city, who apparently didn't want to give the city up to the crusaders. Paraphrasing someone asked what purpose was there to life without religion, and he replied all things have a purpose even a river or a stone, religion does not give any one a reason to live, it only gives fanatics a reason to kill.

The concept of time dilation being proved by muon lifetime is interesting. Using the dipole concept of an electron, which is a stable particle. The muon would be similar having the same spin but larger mass. Basically it would look like a donut shaped fog spinning. If space was flowing in the direction the muon was moving, it would be in a more stable environment and last longer, like a stable whirl pool in flowing water. Space flowing towards a mass is a strange idea because it would then have to disappear. Space expanding between galaxies causes them to move apart, why can space not contract and disappear around a mass like some fluid boiling away.

Yes I have and am not sure why you appear to disagree with or ignore what I have written. Do you disagree that gamma rays are emitted when an electron and a positron annihilate each other.? Are you stating in addition to the above that something else in addition is also part of the result.? Do You agree Cosmic Radiation takes many forms including EM "waves" and Alpha and Beta "Particles" etc.? Do you agree an electron travelling at a fraction of light speed is a beta particle and can affect atoms.? Do you agree electrons are included in negative discharge to ground from lightning clouds, which cause very hot plasmas.? Do you agree Plasma implosion after the lightning strike will result in an increase of temperature in the core of the plasma, to levels suitable for atoms to break down.? Do you agree that lightning produces positrons from atoms affected by the high speed electrons in the plasma. ? Do you disagree that gamma rays are emitted when an electron and a positron annihilate each other.? If gamma rays resulting from an electron positron collision do not happen, then please explain what does happen. An interesting link for those getting bored with the slow speed of this thread. https://phys.org/news/2014-06-universal-lepton-universality.html#nRlv

It is clear to all religious and atheist alike, that the world has a problem with religious extremism. In what way would you modify religion so that people don't follow the worst aspects ? Other forms of extreme behaviour are legislated against by law, is it time that some form of legislation was introduced to curb extreme religious behaviour.? Smoking was extremely popular but found to be bad for public health, it is now heavily taxed and is on the decline in most countries. Every other form of social activity is taxed, why not tax religion, or at least those considered to be backward looking.

Cosmic Rays combine with atoms in the atmosphere creating new particles, such as muons which decay down to electrons(which I know are leptons) and gamma rays Photon radiation is called gamma rays if produced by a nuclear reaction, subatomic particle decay, or radioactive decay within the nucleus. It is otherwise called x-rays if produced outside the nucleus. The generic term photon is therefore used to describe both subatomic particles include muons which are used as proof for time dilation and decay down to electrons and gamma rays Gamma rays are produced in lightning strikes. Those gamma rays did not exist until the lightning strike happened. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can bosons become fermions and vice versa? The answer is at a minimum, unstable particles can decay into smaller particles and bosons. If heated in a plasma and other particles are formed, again radiation can be given off. Positrons are created in thunderclouds which do collide with electrons and do result in gamma radiation. You were asked to explain your self a number of posts back, you havent

For further support of religions tenacity to survive "read the why we still believe in god thread" Peoples beliefs are being challenged by reasonable people and trolls who are being deliberately offensive, but people still hang onto their belief in a god. On the Previous Post I mentioned Rosicrutianism is a religion, they claim it isn't. You can still be a Rosicrutian and be a Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Moslem, Hindu etc, and still practice Rosicrutianism etc, Bye

I suspect you are being deliberately obtuse, in order to discourage me from asking further questions, it would be easier to ask, or simply not answer the posts, unless you felt like engaging in trolling for amusement. As a teacher if you are trying to explain something you have failed to explain yourself. Electron–positron annihilation occurs when an electron (e−) and a positron (e+, the electron's antiparticle) collide. The result of the collision at low energies is the annihilation of the electron and positron, and the creation of gamma ray photons: The above is non ambiguous, the wiki link goes on further to explain some other additional stuff which I am fully aware off, some of which you mention. Thanks all, for the mostly interesting and sometimes helpful comments. This thread is completely of track and should be locked.

This has to be one of the most extensive answers you have given on the forum. You obviously put a lot of effort in It raises more questions than it answers, but never the less well done +1 for effort.

Why would you want to bring them back to life, would you have them as a zoo exhibit or dress them in a suit and put them on the underground, maybe they never went extinct.

IMO That doesn't sound encouraging and is not new, it is more like older religions trying to return to the surface, here is paragraph from the rosicrutian website. As a Rosicrucian member, you will receive many benefits that will all contribute to your physical, mental, emotional and spiritual development, including a spiritual family that has members from many different Wisdom Traditions including Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam who work together harmoniously to bring Light into the world through the recognition that Divinity resides within each one of us and that our work is to actively seek to express that Divinity in everything we do! Here is a link to their claimed development from Europe to America. http://www.brotherhoodoftherosycross.org/history.php They also do a pretty good line on the occult. Belief in the occult comes out of ghost stories or belief in an afterlife, whereby being nice to the ghosties will induce them to help you in some way. St John is the nice side love the spirits and give them presents, and King Solomon is the bad side with human sacrifice etc Here is a wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mystical_Order_Rosae_Crucis Having many splinter religious off shoots is not encouraging , there are numerous new age groups all with their own ideas, it could become like religion out of control generating all sorts of wacko ideas. So No I do not think that the new age beliefs should be encouraged either. Chocolate unicorns are a troll device that we should not be concerned about and was meant as a joke. Edit : Forgot to mention the link with new age and Rosicrutianism. Wicca is the newage version of Rosicrutianism and was promoted by Alistair Crowley a British Freemason around 190? . It started apparently with Fr Kristen Rosencrutz a catholic priest who was never excommunicated from the catholic church, where as Martin Luther was in the same era for trying to instigate reforms around 1500 ish. Speculating the religion may have been an attempt to create a unifying religion that overlapped common parts of various world religions, dumping some of the worse beliefs.

I would call them reasoned lines of speculation and interesting. Are you able to reason sensibly and speculate, or are you going to carry on with your trolling insults as you do on almost every thread I see you post on. You actually started the flowing space line of thought with your inaccurate post, which I reposted at the beginning of this thread, the links above are interesting and I would think might also be to others. Maybe I am wrong maybe I am right, but without speculating we don't get to explore the concepts, and the BS ideas put forward by some posters, which we all do from time to time. A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement. Are you amused

Wikipedia agrees with me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation This post is way more interesting.

I know 2 fermions are not 1 fermion, are you arguing about some perceived typographical misunderstanding. Each fermion results in a gamma ray being emitted, when they are destroyed, a can not make it any clearer than that, even Wikipedia agrees, as I have stated above.

People are drifting off thread but interestingly we have a clear demonstration of how people with a religious belief defend religion and their right to believe in the unbelievable. All religion does exactly the same, people are programmed with a belief that no matter how much they are told otherwise fail to change their mind. The thread was about " When will religious belief, or belief in gods become a thing of the past? 100 years? 300 years? Never? Do you think most of humanity will ever drop superstition and embrace scientific and secular worldviews? " There is absolutely zero, zip, nadda, diddly squat, evidence that Jesus ever existed, but both Moslems and Christians have been programmed in their formative years that he existed and nothing will change this opinion. Richard Dawkins used the tea pot orbiting the sun analogy. If people believe it exists, for them it exists, everyone else stares in disbelief, but they educate their children and the belief perpetuates. The cargo cult started in the pacific, with dumb people believing the gods delivered boxes from heaven if they were good. If the Pope speaking for god on earth, gave a speech admitting that in 325 AD by emperor Constantine created the New Testament based on the Egyptian religions which predate much of the old testament, in an attempt to create a unifying religion to support a failing Roman Empire. Religious fanatics would either kill him or ignore him. Pope Pious X stated the Jesus Myth served them well, they know its all nonsense and they have admitted it. Religious belief will just carry on, along with all the religious hatred and intolerance for eternity, unless people become less tolerant of this nonsense and stop giving respect to leaders who believe in the fairies. It has come to my notice that some people on this forum are quite prepared to believe in chocolate unicorns in black holes If you tell your kids this or gullible people they might believe you. Most wont unless you get thousands of apparently clever people stood around stating its true and reassuring you that you must believe in the nonsense.

I understand that both positrons and electrons are fermions. These two fermions annihilate each other, ie they cease to exist as fermions and gamma rays with equal energy are the result https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation even Wikipedia agrees with me. I also understand gamma rays are bosons. I see no windmills, not even through the fog, if there is something I have missed you are not making it clear. Conservation laws are not broken an electron with 511eV has the same energy as the gamma rays released. Nothing is lost nothing is gained. Every one will find this link interesting ref what is inside an atom. That energy has shape and fluid properties, which would be like vortices. Almost like the space is a fluid making up the fundamental particles, inside the atom. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-deepens-dynamics-quark-gluon-plasmas.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter The quark gluon soup is moving around like a liquid with a few vortices representing particles in the soup, which are drawn together and pulled into each other. Ah Windmills One can imagine a photon coming into this soup like the blades of a windmill, and being caught in or around the vortices adding to the energy in the nucleus, where it can combine with other vortices or break up into even smaller vortices. Once released the photon becomes a windmill again. Windmills are not a god analogy for photons who put that idea into my head . Light flows like a liquid interesting idea, someone has thought of it already. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-stream-superfluid.html?utm_source=menu&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=item-menu -------------------------- I was trying above to draw comparisons between the interior of atoms and black holes in space, the following link is something I was going to post on another thread ref gravity but didn't, because of risk of hijacking. I was contemplating creating a gravity anomaly above an object to do something sci fi . http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/06/05/scientists-create-molecular-black-hole-in-laboratory-using-worlds-most-powerful-x-ray-beam.html In the links above inside the atom fermions and even bosons are referred to as a superfluid. Speculative Question to all : is a superfluid like a none detectable liquid that can move in ways like a particle or a photon and is most likely not detectable if it isn't moving? could a version of the ether be a super fluid that all things flow in ..) ?.

-------------------------------digression alert Mystery I wrote: I was digressing, but then you noticed only my digression on the post and ignored everything else I wrote stating "No No No OK" I visualised you slowly banging your head on the wall whilst writing your comments I guess people can believe in teapots orbiting the sun or Chocolate Unicorns in space if they want too, but these are arguments used to avoid looking at possible real solutions, so I suspect you are being silly . But when you think about it where would the ingredients for chocolate unicorns in space come from, and what would one look like squished in a black hole, would it melt ---------------------------------end of digression I will try and be simple. When electrons (which are fermions and fundamental particles) hit positrons (which are fermions and fundamental particles), is the result gamma rays or is it not??. Antimatter destroys matter when it collides am I right or wrong???? Or am I going mad Gamma rays are bosons aren't they?? Photons are absorbed and released by atoms as they raise and lower energy levels. This was fact when I was in school, has it changed. Focusing: what I was speculating about was the blurring of what happens to a photon which is a boson, when it is absorbed by an atom, which is made up of lots of fermions, swirling around inside the space taken up by the atom. I was also wondering about what happens to a photon captured by an intense gravitational field whilst spiralling down into a black hole, where it finally spirals into tighter and tighter orbits until it catches up to the back end of its own wave. A bit like the Oozalem bird which flies around and around in every decreasing circles until it disappears up its own orbital path. What I am digging at "is their any way that a boson could be twisted, constrained etc and become a fermion" I know quantum matter, matters here, Feynman diagrams might also momentarily at least. For the religious folk, In the beginning was there light which was twisted, constrained etc and became a particle. Would Feynman diagrams even help here. Could string theory cast some light on it.

I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, ref the gamma rays emitted after electron positron annihilation. Can you clarify? Are you in actual fact stating that an electron can orbit around a positron as a particle, or are you agreeing with me that when a positron or electron is destroyed, the result is gamma rays which are bosons. Positron colliding with Electron = 2 gamma rays 511eV = 2 bosons Yes? https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/fermi-thunderstorms.html (The concept of electrons and positrons orbiting each other is interesting from the perspective of lightning balls, which have some reportedly interesting properties like being able to pass through walls, which would rule out heavier atoms, in the air, gas can't flow through walls.) Nothing is beyond speculation, what goes on inside a particle or black hole is massively interesting, and may have similarities, please feel free to speculate I find it is very useful All things are waves even photons trapped inside an atom consisting of fermions which are a different sort of wave. Unstable particles decay into bosons do they not. There is no violation of conservation of energy rules outside of the KNOWN universe. Waves colliding in a confined space inside a black hole or an atom might become distorted and develop a different shape, that could become a stable shape and become a fundamental particle wave.

I cited positrons and electrons both exist in nature in large thunderclouds http://www.nature.com/news/rogue-antimatter-found-in-thunderclouds-1.17526 These have been detected by various scientists including NASA Positrons can be created in the lab using positronium I think and are very very expensive, but nature creates positrons FOC in thunderclouds, they also can appear as a result of radioactive decay.

The answer was not no no ok, thankyou both for your improved answers, ref positronium this is not what I was referring too. positrons are created in thunderclouds and from radioactive decay I have some one at the door

I will use as an excuse for this light hearted response one used by a friends kid "I cant help it, its not my fault" Electrons colliding with positrons become gamma rays with 511eV of energy. A gamma ray is a boson. Yes Does anyone know what goes on in a black hole and how matter is created. Maybe not Does anyone know what goes on inside a particle. The individual fermions have inertia, they move in space and will distort space as they move through it. Where does all matter in the universe come from. Don't really know do we. Heavier elements are formed, in suns, black holes, super novaes. Yes Blackholes pull all bosons especially those with low energy back in, the graviton if it existed is low energy and would be pulled back into a blackhole, and the blackhole would disappear up its own ???? No I do not believe in Gravitons. OK In any mathematical solution approximations are always made, what is considered irrelevant is dropped out and an approximation is arrived at. GR does not take into account the movement of the fermions inside an atom, which affects atomic clocks. Gravity is a field, without spin, unlike bosons and fermions, which have spin. Bosons and fermions exist within the gravitational field, as waves, causing fluctuations in the field due to their own movement. Yes Yes and Yes I am guessing the additional -ve points come from someone who exist in a coffee shop at the other side of the world.

I understand that Schizophrenia may be inherited, do any of your family members also have Schizophrenia. A friend of my family developed Schizophrenia, after he was married for a second time, his first wife died in child birth, he got married again and had more children. Both his first son by his first marriage and his first son by his second marriage developed Schizophrenia, his 3rd son broke of contact with his family, but I understand he also may be having problems. The family friend drowned himself after his second marriage broke up. The medication for Schizophrenia may have improved over the years but I understand they could induce Parkinsons disease. Also the medication for Parkinsons could induce Schizophrenia. There may be better drugs available now for Schizophrenia. Are you taking medication? Is this a life long thing that you will need to do?

Clearly I need to get my hands on some good text books, and revise my maths before responding. I am getting too much from the internet and Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your response. I was commenting on your remark, my comment was not meant to start another discussion, sorry again. I think I have already started too many threads and don't wish to start a new one just yet. ( However this is not part of this thread, but worryingly might result in a new speculation in the future. I commented a few posts ago. Ref fermions and bosons having spin and space not. When a particle is destroyed it becomes a gamma ray. A fermion can therefore become a boson. In a black hole can this be reversed, bosons becoming fermions? Does a photon become a fermion or inside an atom, and then decays back to a photon, when it is released? Matter forms heavier elements inside stars, can photons combine in gravity wells to become stable particles. etc. ) I have a barrow full of other ideas swirling around in my head, it could be the onset of early dementia. I wish to go quiet for a while now. Mordred and others have given me some ideas I want to think about, I am not sure what concrete examples you are looking for, but I will give the concrete a whirl too, to see if I can come up with a solid mix. Thank you all for your comments.

Does any one have anything sentient to say about the United States withdrawal from the Paris Treaty, and global sea level rise or warming.