Handy andy

Excellent answer. However, are you saying conclusively that Testosterone is not the cause of stupid decisions made by many world leaders including African leaders like the renowned NOT Geniuses President Zuma and President Mugabe both with many wives. Are you also stating testosterone is not a strong element off Alpha type personalities. In support of your post, president Obama (Black mostly) seemed more balanced than President Bush(white) or the current jokers, Trump etc currently running the US. As a possibly irrelevant aside, Mrs Obama always looked happier than Mrs Trump, is it 1, 2, 3 or 4. Does mr Trump view his ladies as disposable pleasures rather than meaning full pursuits. Education Is there any consensus on this thread towards Africa might be lagging behind the world due to lack of education and opportunities in some of the poorer parts of Africa.? Not all African states are poverty stricken, at war, AIDS ridden, or in famine, some are wealthy. Politics Some publicized parts of Africa suffer from famine due to localized climate problems and wars, how would a similar situation be handled in Europe or America, would the other states come to help. Could a political change along the lines of a United States of Africa, be able to pool resources from all over the continent and mutually help each other move forward. Could Politicians in Africa come to a consensus to help their people move forward? Which way is forward for Africa? Future Does any one have an optimistic or pessimistic view point on the future of Africa. South Africa I understand is now developing an educated black middle class, that are no longer voting ANC. But the dumber uneducated electorate still vote and protest in ZA throwing bricks at any one who is not ANC, and destroying universities, built to help them get an education. Assistance Would it be better for the so called developed world to send teachers to Africa rather than religious missionaries. Is the developed world responsible for holding Africa back, to steal its resources? Most of Africa was living in the stone age 400 years ago, hunter gatherers and warriors, how many generations does it take for people to catch up and join the 21st century? Not Helping Much of Africa is viewed as having one hell of a lot of catching up to do politically and socially with the rest of the world. This may not be being helped by groups promoting differing religious and political systems from other countries, that may not be suited to Africa. IdeAmin, Mugabe(remember the Matabele), Ghengis Khan, Hitler, all continents and countries have had their fair share of leaders who over see mass murder, to maintain control. I suspect on a whole Europe has produced more empire builders than the rest of the world.

One of the many problems with the internet is any one can publish crap and state it as fact, even reputable science websites and universities claim discoveries or predictions that cant be verified and subsequently turn out to be nonsense. If presented with a thousand books which are all wrong and we read them all, we learn nothing, unless we question what is written. People who don't question everything in science might as well follow religion. Wikipedia is not full proof either but which Wiki link would you suggest.

Thanks for the reply, I will study the Pound-Rebka experiments. I started this thread under Engineering a legitimate subject because I am staying away from speculating. I did not know threads could be started under speculation. The below is one of many links I followed on Pound-Rebka experiment it does not confirm your assertion. There are many interpretations of the same experiment, your assertion above I think is unfounded. An object travelling into the well will experience shorter time dilation effects than an object travelling out of the well. http://www.circlon-theory.com/HTML/poundRebka.html As a photon goes into a gravity well it increases its energy and as it leaves it loses energy, its frequency therefore increases as it goes in and decreases as it comes out, blue and red shift. The amount of time measured for the return journey out of the gravity well will be more than the journey to the gravity well. I will keep trawling the pound-rebka experiment web sites to see if any web site agrees fully with your assertion, at the current moment I have found none, do you have a link that agrees with your assertion?

In fair societies charity is not needed. Speculating: When talking to friends in the US > the US is not fair to those at the bottom of society. In the EU states taxation is not aimed at the poor, people can earn a living wage before they are taxed, in America I understand people are taxed on every cent they earn or are assumed to have earned, via charitable donations (tips). In the EU charity is not so important as in the US because the EU has free health care, free or heavily subsidized education, fairer taxation, less violent crime lower murder rates and a superior and more diverse culture than the USA. The EU helps promote wealth at all levels of society and all economic regions, by fairer taxation better schooling for all etc. People are given more chances to succeed if they want to in the EU. The US leads the world in the more religious states with murder and gun crime, they also lag the world with education in the form of creationism in the same states, health care is third world unless you have the money or insurance to pay for it. Quote form the start of the thread " people of the more left wing EU states thinks that the government already takes care of those in need." Perhaps people of the more left wing EU states thinks correctly. Most of the EU states are more left wing than any state in the US. Having said that political parties, exist in Europe from the far right to the far left. Diversity being the spice of life, this is a good thing, not something to be scared off as it was in the McCarthy era in the states. I could of course be pro European, since I live most of the time in Europe .

Mr Plank wrote E=hf and Mr Einstein wrote famously E=mc^2 (not including momentum) giving the equivalent mass of a photon. Energy is equivalent to mass but does not mean actual mass as could be weighed on a set of kitchen scales.

The whole thread is a bit bizarre and seems border line racist or elitist, with no or little basis in reality. In addition to this I noted a thread a couple of days ago based on scientific research which discussed the levels of testosterone in decision making. Testosterone leads to bad decisions. Alpha type people generally believe they are correct even when they are wrong. It is simple question I raised do Africans have more Alpha orientated thought processes due to testosterone levels and does this lead to bad decision making. Incidentally they don't all have big genitalia its a myth .

What I am getting at is, does the direction travelled up or down into a gravity well affect the time dilation more in one direction than the other. I am trying to understand exactly how the time on satellite clocks is affected by gravity, before moving the thread onto, such things as how does the atmosphere affect propagation delays or how the ionosphere affect the accuracy of GPS. I have been lead to believe that time dilation is massively significant when looking at the accuracy of GPS. If it wasn't taken into account the GPS would not work, as well as it does today.

The product of anything multiplied by zero is zero.

How can the answer be neither,? My first questions were "If two identical spaceships were to approach a central point between them at equal speed and acceleration through uniform none stretched space, the clocks on the space ships would read identical elapsed times when they reached the central point. If they did a return journey to their respective starting points at the same speed and acceleration, The outgoing journey elapsed times would equal the incoming journey elapsed times. If the experiment is repeated with the midpoint being a potential well, time will again be slowed as the clocks approach the mid point in the potential well, if they turn around and accelerate against the potential well back to their respective starting point, at the same speed and acceleration will the elapsed times be longer on the return journey or less. ? "

I think first it must be established that it could it be done. I think the calculation is not so straight forward, because mass = F/g. If a "gravitational potential well" could be created above an object, the effective gravity on the mass would be 0 or -ve to cause lift. At the point where the g due to a planet = the g due to a artificial "gravity potential well" there would be no force. If it was a continual thrust against a constant gravity the amount of energy used to lift a mass could be calculated using basic Newtonian physics. I think this is not so simple, as the amount of gravity and direction of gravity changes. Another difficulty in the calculation is that normally height would be used to calculate the amount of energy required to lift the object against gravity E = mgh. This calculation is not as simple as it first looks and grows arms and legs the more you focus on it. Can anyone shed any light on how the calculation of energy requested by strange would go.

Something not mentioned above, but was alluded to on another thread on this forum, which I have been unable to find the link to. But research shows that hormones particularly testosterone affect descission making. Someone with high testerone is likely to make a bad decissions. Teenage boys going into puberty get hit with a large dose of hormones and can make bad decissions, more likely to crash cars etc. Education is waisted on teenagers as they know everything already:). I have heard Women going into menopause can appear irrational for a year or two as they get used to the new hormone balance. Do Hormones and poor education affect peoples behaviour in Africa? A common idea that Black Men like to portray is they have bigger genitalia than all other races. Does this give them more testosterone?. Do those likely to get into power have higher testosterone levels than those they are trampling over, Do Alpha (leader) type people have higher testosterone and make bad descissions based on their level of education. Are leaders from the "developed world" better educated than those from undeveloped countries, but given the same opportunities would make the same bad decisions? Should world leaders undergo hormone treatment to make sure they are thinking and analysing everything with their heads and nothing else, when making decisions that affect other peoples lives.

Why not turn the idea on its head, ? Photons of light have a gravitational effect around their paths. As a photon moves through space it is compressing the space in its path and stretching it in its wake causing waves as it goes. Gravity is caused by the stretching of space, could space be stretched more above an object than it is stretched below by a planet, using electromagnetic waves of sort. Could intense high frequency radiation be focused on a point above an object and cause a gravitational potential well, which would cause an object to free fall upwards. A small object having less inertia would move towards the potential well faster than the planet with high inertia.

Your question is not clear, are you talking about electromagnetic fields as in magnets or are you talking about radiation like gamma rays. If it is electromagnetic fields you are talking about, do you have any references. Gamma radiation and Plasmas as in lightning are well known mechanisms for ionizing gases. Gamma rays are not good for the complexion, and lightning can fry you.

From above If two identical spaceships were to approach a central point between them at equal speed and acceleration through uniform none stretched space, the clocks on the space ships would read identical elapsed times when they reached the central point. If they did a return journey to their respective starting points at the same speed and acceleration, The outgoing journey elapsed times would equal the incoming journey elapsed times. If the experiment is repeated with the midpoint being a potential well, time will again be slowed as the clocks approach the mid point in the potential well, if they turn around and accelerate against the potential well back to their respective starting point, at the same speed and acceleration will the elapsed times be longer on the return journey or less. ? The question above is to try and establish if space is flowing into a gravity well or is stationery.? It affects how the stretching of space causes gravity. ................................................................................................................ The question below, is a separate question, but again related to time dilation, and is a question of understanding or definition of what time dilation is caused by. Photons of light create a gravitational disturbance Photons of light compress the space in front of them and stretch it behind them causing waves, the double slit experiment works with both electrons and photons, the effect in space is therefore the same. The track of photons in a gravitational field is bent by gravity (the stretching of space) An electron orbiting an atom in a radioactive clock will be affected by its movement in a gravitational field. Can time displacement not more correctly be explained by instrumentation error. If not why not? Is time dilation and time travel not like the kings new clothes.

I forgot to mention elitist on my post above. The opportunity of getting an education and getting ahead does not always fall to the naturally gifted, an education can be bought and exposure to good educational environments improves dumber peoples chances to get ahead. Look at the some of the royal families of the world, genetic inbreeding does not produce genius, but they are amongst the elite. What direction is this thread going to take. Is it smart folks or the elite should tell perceived inferior peoples what to do, based on an IQ, physique, colour, birth right etc. Should smart folks be able to control the worlds resources and act the part of god in a benign dictatorship, and world government. Should children be given aptitude tests at kindergarden to decide what they will be in future life. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Epsilon etc could be stamped on their foreheads, or they could be electronically tagged in some Orwellian nightmare like Animal Farm. What is the ultimate aim or point of this thread? Is it to argue a point for elitism, racism or selective breeding to improve the human bloodline etc. All races off the world have differences, as do people in the same family. Most normal folks don't need leaders telling them what to do, or a race who perceives it is their right to order people about(The master race). This is what happens in police states and military dictatorships.

Yes I re read the link last night again. Thanks for that. How is the clock affected as it descends into the gravitational potential well?, I think this depends on the speed of descent, initially it will be going faster than the clock in the ground position, as it goes deeper into the gravitational potential well, how much does the clocks speed change with reference to the clock on the ground. I had another thought around the question I was trying to ask ref clocks at the other side of the universe, which backfired. Rather than using an analogy with wormholes. If two identical spaceships were to approach a central point between them at equal speed and acceleration through uniform none stretched space, the clocks on the space ships would read identical elapsed times when they reached the central point. Since they were travelling through space the clocks elapsed times will go slower than the stationery clock at the mid point. If the experiment is repeated with the midpoint being a potential well, time will again be slowed as the clocks approach the mid point in the potential well, if they turn around and accelerate against the potential well back to their respective starting point, at the same speed and acceleration will the elapsed times be longer on the return journey or less.

https://en.wikipedia...Gravity_Probe_A IF I read the above link correctly, moving in the direction of the gravity well speeds up time measured on a clock. In free fall you are headed in the right direction, until you reach ground zero (splat)

Is it not better to view all particles as being waves. Then everything is waves of one kind or another. Fermions being stationery waves, bosons being waves travelling at light speed.

Religion does not help people to get of their knees and help them selves, and can lead to extremism and wars, if not moderated. Religions have been messing with humanity for a few thousand years and are the main cause of most unrest over the last few thousand years, and religious conflict is a problem in parts of Africa. Maybe banning religion would be a good thing, but then those in power use religion to control people and claim it is a good thing, so we may be stuck in a loop for eternity unless the leaders change their methods of controlling people. The over whelming number of people like to believe what they are told and don't think for themselves. Also in colonial countries if people have been told what to think for a few generations maybe they will need a generation or two to work out politicians and religious leaders are generally lying thieving selfish manipulative pieces of human excrement, who would like to think people believe they are a benefit to society. Racism or Classimo is common place globally not just in Africa, if you do not come from the correct social group or have the correct skin colour or ethnic origins, your chances of progressing are reduced, by those controlling the education , money flow etc. Its a sad old world, where people just behave the same way towards each other again and again throughout history, because they are all just people doing what people do. Education could break them out the ground hog day mentality by teaching them to think for them selves.

I keep getting posts from various physics forums which claim their latest findings(I think often for funding and advertisement purposes) and then go quite when they find they have made a blunder, or cant repeat their findings. I think a lot of it is speculative but is interesting to read. Thanks for the link Gravity Probe A, from what I understood, I think it confirms what am thinking. Time as measured by accurate clocks can run faster in high geo stationery orbits and in free fall towards the earth, than it does on a stationery clock on earth. Time measured on clocks when moving at speed against gravity or in parallel to it runs slower. I am correct in saying, Gravity slows down the measured time, and in the absence of gravity or in free fall time appears to run faster, because the clocks are not affected by gravity so much?. When satellites are redirected to different parts of the planet at different latitudes does this also affect the clocks slightly, as may gravitational anomalies and mountain ranges and the moon. ref quantum entanglement it is not part of this thread but here is a link that is not relevant to this thread which is nearly easy reading for those that are interested. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement.

Those new Englanders knew a thing when they saw it. Trying to use the analogy of quantum entanglement and pop scifi was a blunder on my part. I am sure there is a thread somewhere discussing quantum entanglement in the speculation bin. I asked strange a question ref time dilation above, with reference to geostationary satellites and ground based clocks, also ground based clocks compared to those falling directly down in free fall towards a ground based clock. Do you have any thoughts or links that could cast light on this. I suspect that time dilation might speed up under these circumstances compared to the ground based clock.

Thanks for that, I had studied the written text in the link, but the graph was out of focus so had not paid too much attention. Here is the link again to save any one going back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation#Experimental_confirmation Satellite clocks are slowed by their orbital speed but speed up by their distance out of the Earth's gravitational well. Just as I thought. How do geostationary clocks vary with reference to one on the surface of the planet. Do they speed up?? Would a clock in free fall moving towards a stationery clock on the surface of the planet experience faster or slower time than the one fixed on the surface of the planet. Does it go faster ??? My understanding is entanglement allows information to move instantaneously. Do you have a link explaining otherwise. I know quantum entanglement is not clearly understood, I was using it as analogy to try and explain what I was getting at and that is also why included worm holes, to transmit information instantly I was using it to try and explain what I was getting at, not anything else

Basing my understanding on an assumption the speed of light is the same in distant galaxies as it is here, those galaxies are moving away from us and they appear to be ticking slower, from their perspective our clocks would be ticking slower. However if one could adopt some science fiction worm holes, or incorporate an idea from quantum entanglement, and entangle the clocks so that information was transmitted instantly across space, is it not the case there would be no time dilation, between two stationery clocks operating under the same gravitational forces at the opposite sides of the universe. Are you possibly saying that the time dilation is just a function of what we are able to observe with our instruments. Whereas it doesn't really happen in galaxies at opposite sides of the universe.? Agreed the time dilation will change as the gravitational potential increases, but if the gravitational changes are equal are the time dilations measured in the atomic clocks the same, in different galaxies. Agreed for information to get to us it is restricted by the speed of light, and is red shifted as the space between galaxies is increased. If a star super novaes a million light years away, it will take a million years before we know what has happened, this isn't time dilation is just a delay in the information being transmitted, even if it is red shifted. What I am trying to get at, is how does the distortion of space affects the clocks on satellites. You have stated above satellites in orbits at different altitudes have different time dilation. Assuming all the satellites have the same mass(which I know they wont have), I assume these are not orbiting around the planet with the same angular velocity, and those at higher altitude are going slower, otherwise they would fly off into space. Do the satellites at higher altitude have more or less time dilation than those at lower altitude. Those at higher altitude are going slower but space is less stretched less further away from the planet.

I mean free fall in open space or being accelerated directly downwards towards the centre of a stretched area of space, (a gravitational body), I do not mean moving at an angle to the gravitational force, like satellites do. The speed of light in another galaxy is the same as the speed of light here, why would the clocks not run at the same speed? If neither of them were moving in their own reference frame, (galaxy) or are being accelerated towards a more stretched area of space, caused by masses of equal size. Are you not just talking about the time it takes to get the information back here, rather than the rate the two clocks would tick?. The red shift is caused by movement through space is it not. If the clock is stationery in space in its reference frame, or galaxy how can they tick slower? I understand Time dilation to be measured by atomic clocks, that must tick at the same rate if they are not undergoing motion through space. If space is moving with them, they will tick at the same speed wont they? Have missed something important, and what is it please?

Could quantum entanglement be explained by something along the lines off, all points in space can be or were connected by a time independent spatial dimension, which can only transmit a very limited amount of information. Once the entanglement is broken between (packets of energy, waves)particles or photons of light it is broken for good. After the entanglement is broken between particles the usual forces are the only ones that come into play. @ Annuki, Ref the science fiction extra dimensions or parallel universes and paradoxes only one answer is right, but it makes a good story . @ All, Along the lines of extra dimensions philosophically could both space and zero space exist at the same time, with a zero space dimension connecting other space dimensions. Do any of the string theories available include extra special dimensions that cover this.