Area54

Why are you moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about Christians. You didn't specify a particular subset. Please provide evidence to support your contention that the USA has more 140 million YECs. If you can't please state that you were mistaken.

I don't think that flies. There is little reason to expect such a membrane to be stable in interstellar space (quite the reverse). It is stable in a specific portion of the Titan environment. The importance of its stability in that environment is that it provides a locale where a metabolism may develop and possibly evolve. All the panspermia hypotheses I have seen envisage the organisms surviving interstellar space safely embedded within minerals/rocks, or spore like bodies with thick protective coatings, not layers one or two moelcules thick.

So what are these astounding results? It really should not require us agreeing with your preamble before you present them. That is not the way science works. Mendel didn't withold his findings on the ratio of pea chracteristics until his audience agreed that some were smooth and some were wrinkled. He stated such was the case and relayed the pertinent observations. I accept that you are no Mendel, but many modest achievers have been known to follow the same approach.

If you read back through the thread you will find me enquiring as to whether or not it might be possible. I had no idea how it might come about, but I do not presume that my ignorance means it is impossible. My ignorance is really quite extensive and if I based my belief of what is possible on what I found credible, or what I knew was possible then I would be even more messed up than I am. And I notice you never actually answered my question. So, I'll turn it into a statement. I believe you were using an argument from personal incredulity.

I meant life. The biochemical processes we call life increase entropy more effectively than non-biochemical processes (with the same broad suite of base chemicals). Consequently life shortens the time until the end.

My point was that your ephiphany celebrating the "victory" of life over entropy is misplaced since life is hastening the demise of the universe.

There is a rich treasure trove out here. First this 2008 paper acknowledges Gorierly's proposal, but attributes the high speed particles, which generate the short lived isotopes, not to the actions of the magnetic field, but to a companion neutron star. I find this unconvincing, but that is based on my ignorance of the ease or difficulty of detecting neutron stars. I imagine that if there were a neutron star companion it should have been detectable by now. No subsequent papers citing this one discuss the NS hypothesis further. It seems that HD101065 is not the only star with transuranic content in the photosphere. HD465 is also anomalous. This is mentioned in passing in a couple of papers. I have not yet tracked down the original research. In an earlier post I mistakenly stated the half life of Technetium was 17 hours. I should have referenced the half life of 145Pm as 17.7 years. (How time flies when you are having fun.)

Excellent. I confess I was too wrapped up in investigating the peculiarities of Przybylski's Star, highlighted by Moontanman in another thread, to take the time to confirm my suspicion. I hadn't even thought about C-14, but only the potassium. Of course the same parents who doubt evolution would also likely automatically suspect anything with the word radioactive in it. IIRC MRI devices use nuclear magnetic resonance, but the nuclear was dropped from the name in order not to scare the ill informed. (Or is NMR a different thing?)

Not at all. It was the alien reference that grabbed my attention. I was rather hoping it would be more of a possibility than has (apparently) turned out to be the case. Also note that Gorierly has only proposed a hypothetical solution. I can find nothing in subsequent literature that any of the tests he proposed have been carried out. The attitude appears to be "ah yes, that would explain it. I have more interesting problems to work on than to confirm that." I shall probe a little further and see if I can turn up anything else buried in the several papers on Ap stars in general that I have located with my literature searches today.

There is probably more radioactive material inside an individual than there is radioactive rubidium inside a rock sample. That is a parental objection that should be easy to handle. I am confused by your statement about the discovery of DNA leading to "even more robust evolutionary theory". DNA was discovered (I prefer identified) in the same decade that Origin of Species was published, long before the Modern Synthesis was developed. It's structure was determined in 1953, a decade or two after the Modern Synthesis was developed. Your point about acceptance versus belief is an excellent one.

Life accelerates the increase in entropy. The victory is short term. Life brings the end nearer.

@Ken Fabian. When I read your reservations about economic feasability, it is almost as if you don't understand compound interest.

It is a positive thing that you recognise your ignorance on this matter. It is a negative thing that you think that ignorance extends to everyone else. There is still much that we do not understand about the universe, but a great deal more is known about it than you imagine. Just some pointers: weight is a measure of the attraction of the Earth for any objects on it. The weight of an object varies depending upon where it is on the Earth and at what altitude and upon the composition of the Earth, especially nearby, because all of these things influence the magnitude of the attraction. It therefore makeslittle sense to talk about the weight of the Earth. We can talk about its mass, which is a measure of the amount of matter it contains. Look at the articles on weight and mass in wikipedia and ask questions if necessary. But to avoid further derailing of this thread ask them in a new thread.

I've done some further digging and found this is a fascinating topic. As I noted in an earlier post this is an Ap star, noted for its short term oscillations and strong magnetic fields. The magnetic field contributes to the absence of convection in the star which promotes stratification of elements and thus accounts for the anomalous high values for the Lanthanides and REEs. The presence of truly short lived isotopes has been confirmed by multiple investigators, including Technetium with a half life of 17 hours. (I need to double check that). An obituary on Biddleman led me to a paper by Cowley, which led to one by Mkrtichian, hence to a 2007 paper by Gorierly that appears to answer the problem. Here is the link to the paper. Here is the abstract. Context. Recent observations have suggested the presence of radioactive elements, such as Tc, Pm, and 84 ≤ Z ≤ 99 elements at the surface of the chemically-peculiar magnetic star HD 101065, also known as Przybylski’s star. The peculiar 35<Z<82 abundance pattern of HD 101065 has been explained so far by diffusion processes in the stellar envelope. However, those processes cannot be called on to explain the origin of short-lived radioelements. Aims. The large magnetic field observed in Ap stars can be at the origin of a significant acceleration of charged particles, mainly protons and α-particles, that in turn can modify the surface content by interaction with the stellar material. This paper explores to what extent an irradiation proces s resulting from the interaction of the stellar material with energetic particles can by itself account for both the abundances determined by observation on the surface of the chemically peculiar star HD 101065 and the presence of unstable elements. Methods.Due to the unknown characteristics of the accelerated particles that could be held responsible for this nuclear process, a purely parametric approach is followed, with the proton and α-particle flux amplitude and energy distribution taken as free parameters, as well as the total fluence Results. This kind of irradiation process, at least for high fluences, can lead to a rich nucleosynthesis, including a significant production of Z >30 heavy elements, as well as radioelements like Tc and Pm, and even transuranium. In this respect, the energy spectrum of the accelerated particles plays a crucial role. Many observational aspects of HD101065’s composition can be explained quantitatively. Conclusions. The possible existence of high-fluence irradiation events need to be confirmed by hydrodynamics simulations but, most of all, by spectroscopic observations through detecting short-lived unstable elements on the surface of chemically peculiar stars. That rather seems to be game, set and match over the aliens.

To answer the question in the title, absolutely not. Here are two alternative questions with their answers. If there is life on Titan, could this be part of how it got started? Quite possibly. If life were to develop on Titan, could this be part of how it would develop? Quite possibly. There is no evidence that vinyl cyanide, or any of its derivatives were involved in the emergence of life on Earth. The conditions for its formation were very unlikely to be present on the primordial Earth. Even if they were, there is no apparent path to convert a vinyl cyanide membrane to a bilipid one. What we can say is that if bilipid membrane sacs were central to the emergence of life on Earth then vinyl cyanide membrane sacs could perform, or could already have performed, an analagous role on Titan. I find the concept of such protocells a compelling one and it is interesting, possibly important, that here is a mechanism to produce similar features in a radically different environment.

Isn't that an argument from personal incredulity?

Do you have any evidence that there were no wars? If we look at tribes living in more "natural" and "ruder" conditions today, in for example the Amazon rain forest or New Guinea, we find wild beasts, poisonous insects, precipices, floods, forest fires,etc. And yet, despite this, or perhaps because of it, clan fights and mini-wars are commonplace. Humanity is united and divided at the same time. The tribe (clan) is everything. Other tribes are treated with suspicion, although there may be some exchange of young people between adjacent tribes for marriage (a smart genetic move). Inter tribal warfare is commonplace and a significant cause of death, These are established facts you can confirm in any textbook on anthropology. What evidence do you have that things were different 100,000 years ago? You claim there were no drugs or doctors 100,000 years ago. Perhaps not, but have you heard the expression "medicine man". At some point in the last 100,000 years and perhaps earlier, humans had identified plants that had medicinal properties and were using them effectively. You say men needed to stay together if they were to avoid dying early, yet die early is just what many of them did. And a quite minor point - most of our ancestors did not live in caves. It is simply that caves are the most likely place where the remains of our ancestors, their tools and their rubbish will be preserved.

He appears to be stating that the "short lived" elements identified in the star were produced recently (in astronomical terms) within a nearby supernova. As someone, perhaps yourself, noted earlier the discussion is not much more than waffle until we have identified exactly which isotopes are involved and what their half lifes are. He is suggesting that if there are any "short lived" isotopes, where short lived is thousands of years or less, that these are decay products of some of the (slightly) heavier "short lived" isotopes with million year (+/-) half lifes.

He's obviously never seen my hammer!

But the signficance of the two Testaments, their relevance, their context, etc are quite different. It is entirely reasonable that you should be unaware of this since you have not studied them. However, it makes your pronouncements about them rather silly. It would be like me making declarations about the Kreb's cycle based on a half remembered wikipedia article. It may be possible to fashion an argument whose conclusions are similar to yours based upon the theology and practice of Christianity. It's just that such an argument would be quite different from the one you are using, in that it would be logical and based on fact, not fantasy.

Przybylski's Star is unusual in several ways: 1. Low concentrations of iron and nickel (slightly lower than the sun) 2. High concentrations of Lanthanides (by two or three magnitudes) 3. Presence of various short-lived isotopes (Unknown? in other stars) 4. High velocity relative to neighbouring stars 5. Rapid oscillations - 12 minute period. (Type for roAp star class.) It seems likely that most or all of these features are initmately related. Alien garbage disposal corporations need not apply. I would focus on point 2. to establish underlying cause(s). Here is the link to the original paper announcing the discovery of the peculiar spectrum.

Ask him if you hit his big toe with a hammer every hour, will his brain adapt to ignore the pain. After all, he only has to deal with a small change in his environment.

I talk to him from time to time. He is either a very good listener, or he is not there.

Many scientists are religious. Many people interested in science are religious. Why would they be any less likely to be on this forum thant those who are not religious? Your viewpoint appears rather narrowminded. That's not scientific. One might almost be tempted to ask why someone with a narrowminded viewpoint would be on the forum. But I'll resist the temptation. You're not Richard Dawkins by any chance?

Would it be more accurate to say "that it is expanding and cooling from an earlier hot, dense state", since we do not know what preceded the initiation of that expansion?