interested

Yes, I genuinely think Trump is of zero benefit to me and most of humanity, I also can not think of one single benefit to me coming out of Palestine, although I do have a suspicion you do think you have benefited and may be Christian perhaps. Christians might think celebrating the Romans torturing to death of a mythical religious leader on a cross is acceptable. The Jews do not have any record of the mythical christian religious leader tortured by the Romans, and certainly do not accept a person in history who never existed as giving them any guidance on the future. Since Jesus was meant to be Jewish Royalty you think they would know. What would happen if the Jews turned around to all of those of a none Jewish faith in Jerusalem and said get out your religion is based on bollox. I will of course be celebrating the winter solstice with all my other friends and family this winter.

Yes it will form a quark gluon plasma and it will get hot. A black hole is full of hot dense plasma, if you keep compressing it, quarks will break down to radiation. The entire universe from the Big Bang filled a singularity, ie it was not a very big universe. I agree it happened in the past in real time. But as you say the maths breaks down so claiming the singularity exists in the future is based on what, a broken mathematical theory. I speculated that light iniside a black hole can not be constrained by light alone. You clearly disagree. I asked Can you give an example of an experiment showing that light can be constrained by light, as it would have to be in a theoretical boson sun at the centre of a black hole. I have no idea what your last sentence is meant to mean. Are you saying that light has mass, If so you are wrong. It has energy and inertia, not mass.

You appear to have set views, do you think it is a good thing what Trump has done? Do you think on average it will benefit your average Israeli and Palestinian? Do you think your average American will benefit in any way? Do you think it may benefit the arms trade? Do you think it may benefit the oil industry outside the middle east? etc

I did not know about the theoretical max temperature 1.417×1032 kelvin, thank you for that, it is a new number in my collection. This still does not answer the question, during the theoretical Plank epoch of the big bang these temperatures were attained. In what way does a very hot black hole full of radiation not resemble the conditions of the big bang. Can you give an example of an experiment showing that light can be constrained by light. Light has energy which is represented as inertia in the Einstein field equations. If the inertia of photons is supporting the core of a black hole as theorized by Hawking what happens when all the core mass is converted to inertia. There are a number of theoretical exotic stars the Planck star was mentioned earlier not by me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_star I was more interested in the Boson star, both have a repulsive self supporting action and in fact would expand if not constrained by mass.

The resources of the middle east belong to the middle east to do with as they see fit. What if in view of Trump upsetting the Palestinians the whole of the oil producing countries in the middle east, decide not to sell as much oil? Who would that benefit ? Which other countries have oil that they can sell on the world market ? Who on this planet might benefit financially from causing a restriction in oil supply globally? My ancestors whilst trying to be decent human beings doing what they could to survive, rarely got rich, and had little to do with political decision making. Palestine has no natural resource I am aware off which has been stolen to improve the wealth of myself or any of my ancestors. I also suspect you would be hard pressed to find any increase in wealth globally because of the problems caused in Palestine by international interference, unless of course you are involved in selling weapons, which I doubt. Ps the thread is about trump and palestine not me

Why should WE police the middle east. What political right do we have to interfere in the politics of another country. If the outside world stopped meddling with different countries we might have a more stable world now.

Exactly "interpretational problems", and it is the curvature of space and time which I think can be viewed in a way which gets around interprataional problems between Quantum mechanics and relativity. But I strongly suspect you wont agree, having done a bit of background reading, on your posts on other threads started by others on this forum over the years. Time travel is one thing you might have to accept is an interpretational problem, that can be explained away, a bit like a pendulum clock operating in different levels of gravity. A pendulum has mass and measures time reasonably accurately in a stationery gravitational field. An atomic clock has mass and measures time in a stationery gravitational field, I would not assume the pendulum clock had travelled in time if I accelerated it or if I changed the level of gravity it was experiencing, and time either slowed down or speeded up. Quantum excitations resonate as do mechanical systems made up of quantum excitations. The time dilation effect seen in atomic clocks could be the same effect as seen in a pendulum clock. Only the measured time is changing not actual time, also Quantum fluctuations not experiencing gravity might resonate differently and last longer in real time than they would in a high gravity environment. As you can see I still mulling the subject over.

When the maths fail, does not help a little to fall back on speculation as to what might be happening inside a blackhole in terms of temperature, using known physics. If you take all the matter in the univere and start squashing it down, it will become hotter than the conditions predicted at the start of the big bang. Edit I know you dont agree with the concept of radiation supporting the interior of a blackhole, preventing the collapse, but what would happen if most of the interior was turned into radiation. Would gravity still work the same, if there was no mass in the blackhole but just radiation with inertia. Are photons attracted to each other by gravity, or do they converge with each other because of waves interactions.

Ligo is a bigger version of the michelkson morley experiment. It works by detecting a change in length of its arms which are about 4km long. The ruler analogy you are using is equivalent to the arms and it will expand and contract as the gravitational wave passes by as you say. Here is a link that attempts to explain it, but if you google how LIGO works, you will lots of hits https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-ligo-works

At the end of the second world war many displaced Jews went to Palestine, so you could argue it was Hitlers fault. We are not responsible for the crimes of our ancestors, and in no way is the action of dead politicians our fault today. The Politicians of today are failing to agree not the general public who will be affected. The consensus appears to be the Palestinians have been wronged. I wonder what the average Israeli who has been living in Jerusalem alongside Palestinians thinks of Trumps decision, I also wonder if the Israeli Politicians think it was a good idea, for trump to do what he has done. A lot of innocent Israelis are going to get hurt as well as Palestinians. Normal people just want to get on with their lives without wacko politicians looking for a fight, over land resources or some religion, based on fairy stories, originating from earlier religions based on fairy stories, and astrology. The Palestinians and the Jews are genetically the same race, separated by religion, and politics. Edit- Perhaps a solution to the political problem with Jerusalem, is to declare it as an individual state like the Vatican in Rome. The religious leaders could be given diplomatic immunity and travel the world on diplomatic passports advising politicians what to do. Perhaps the Pope or an elected politician could reside there and rule over it all, like the head of the holy roman empire, maybe the king of spain could go there as well, to give it a bit of Royal class. The above idea is based very losely around revelations. Is that what Trump wants.

To say the people were just Nomads, and therefore it is OK to grab the land, could apply to any historic land grab possibly America, South Africa, Australia. The consensus is Trump is a nutter. The people in the middle east of today were not alive thousands of years ago, but are basing there hurt feelings on historical injustice. They will throw stones and get them selves shot, it most likely will escalate. Would a better way of calming hostilities rather than trying to provoke them not been a media campaign explaining how the world works. Religion is simply a tool for controlling society and helping groups have some form of social cohesion, ie form into tribes, it is not based on fact. Politicians use tribalism as a tool to control people etc etc ad infinitum and has been going on for millennia. The people who are going to get hurt are those who are dumb enough to believe their religious holy places are worth dying for. Leaders and politicians cause wars, not individual generally uneducated people in the desert who just want to get along with their lives, behaving as they do because that is what they were taught. In the case of the Palestinians they are percieved as been wronged. America occasionally claims to support world justice, in this instance they have supported injustice.

I thought the problem of time was common knowledge, I am very surprised you do not know about it. It is not my idea, it is the work of scientists so I am making nothing up. I have already posted a couple of links on this subject, hoping someone would discuss it under the black hole thread I started. I will start a thread specifically on this subject, as time is not really to do with quantum entanglement, I will re-post some of the links I have posted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_time I have formed an opinion on the subject already, so if you can change my mind, it would be interesting to see what arguments you can put forward against my view. Many Physicists seem to have views in the same direction as me, so I guess I may not be a million miles from the truth. Since it will be speculative on my part, I will start the thread under speculations if that is alright with you.

Not quite, what I am saying is, he is a religious and a nutter, I dont think pious comes into it. Since he got into power he has helped destabilise North Korea, and now it seems hes having a full frontal go of upsetting the whole of the middle east. He is looking for trouble rather than trying to calm it down. Yep the problem in the middle east goes back along way in history with all the Colonial powers, the english and french fought over it, the russians are there still, all with their own vested interests, playing with peoples lives to control resources and territory. BUT since the WW2 america has largely been in charge. America ie President Trueman declared the state of Israel to be legal about five minute after they declared independence from the rest of Palestine. America has been Israels strongest friend since the beginning. Today it is President Trump upsetting the Palestinians, at the end of WW2 it was President Trueman, so I guess the Palestinians do not view America as a friend. The Palestinans are of course good friends with the rest of the world, and are seen as the wronged party by most of the planet. This might upset ignorant people in the short term. Education re the purpose of religion and politics in society as a tool for controlling ignorant people who might want to fight over land, buildings and territory. Trump has caused a problem today

As you see going around in circles has benefits, it works like a drill, and gets a deeper understanding at each pass. Thanks all for the inputs.

Time.

A better analogy is that the model is taking a black box with known inputs and known outputs and trying to theorize what is inside the black box causing the outputs from the known inputs. Garbage in garbage out, if the model does not take into account all the inputs it may not be completely correct.

I fully understand the concept of electrical noise, and have had in my earlier career some very expensive laboratory equipment at my disposal. I am also familiar with fourier analysis of wave forms, and how to extract signals from the noise. So yes I fully get this explanation. Thanks you very much indeed. Quantum fluctuations are equivalent to electrical back ground noise and are virtual particles. Quantum excitations are equivalent to the signals on the circuit and are real particles. Yes I know it is about the accelerated expansion, you will see in my response above that quantum fluctuations accelerating the expansion of space is exactly whatI was alluding too. I also thought I wrote it in such general terms that it could not be shown to be wrong. Thanks for the link.

The problem arose with Israel after WW2, many displaced European Jews went to Palestine where they settled eventually out numbering the locals and took over, so I guess you could blame it on Hitler. You could also draw analogies between many other points in history where one country occupied for thousands of years by one race is wiped out by another who claims it as there homeland. If there are no or few survivors no one complains, unfortunately for Israel much of the world especially in the middle east do not believe the Israelis should have been granted the land they have from the Palestinians. The problem with Jerusalem is that every religious nut in the world connected with the old testament based religions have a holy site there, and the Islamic types are not fond of the Jewish types. Trumps acceptance of Jerusalem as the new capitol of Israel is at the very least going to cost quite a few lives, but I guess they will just call it CAPITOL damage and is to be expected, now that Jerusalem is officially a capitol according to America. Uhmmmmm yes. I took an interest in the news when the US elections were on for entertainment and I distinctly remember the nutter sitting down whilst other nutters put hands on him and prayed for him. He appears to me to be a Nutter and Religious one at that, and to make it worse the Vice President is even more crazy he is a creationist, and they have more bombs than they can use.

It all depends on how fast you swing it, if it is in a higher gravity environment it will tick faster. If it is in a lower gravity it will tick slower until there is no gravity and it will stop all together. The clock itself is a mechanical oscillator and not an atomic clock which works differently. An atomic clock is a harmonic oscillator of sorts, that might be affected by moving through a gravitational field in an analogous way. Does an atomic clock speed up with higher gravity and slow down in free fall, would a particle oscillate slower in free fall than it would in a strong gravitational field? You can see my line of thought above and why I wrote what I wrote. You are most likely correct, the analogy was a quick response, however it has started a line of thought as you can see above which I might start a thread on once I have a line of questions worked out and checked to make sure no one else has already covered this angle. There is already quite a bit available on the internet ref the problem of time it is not a new subject but just one of those things where two highly successful theories do not agree. It is therefore interesting. I suspect both may be correct but are looking at things from slightly different angles. Gravity affects harmonic oscillators especially mechanical ones could it affect an atomic clock, in the same way. If this was the case the problem of time would vanish, would it not? I may be having a problem with the concept of expanding space and dark matter, not helped by reading links like the following https://www.universetoday.com/135570/new-explanation-dark-energy-tiny-fluctuations-time-space/ I have been viewing everything as quantum fluctuations in space including everything from virtual particles to real particles to everything in the universe. I need to go and have a bit of a read up on the difference, between an excited fluctuation and a quantum fluctuation it could just be a case of wordology on my part. Should the MANTRA be space is supported by quantum fluctuations that give rise to field excitations. I think I need to have a bit of a read on this. I am a engineer the maths does not scare me, but like everyone else I do prefer simple explanations, ie the executive summary before I get into detail. I have read a lot of what has been written mathematically on the forum and it is mostly understandable to me. How can you start to model something without having a "what or concept of what is" to model. --------------------------------------- Will a virtual particle in a zero gravity environment last longer than the same particle in a high gravity environment ?

Is this not just a case of religious nutters being religious nutters. Trump certainly appears to fulfill the both the religious and nutter category? Watching the TV picture of him rocking backwards and forwards at the wailing wall, appeared psychotic? Being none religious it does not concern me what religious nutters do to each other, I am however a little concerned about the safety of innocent bystanders who are unfortunate enough to have been born there, and must be bewildered by what is going to happen. I think if someone had taken bulldozer to Jerusalem and Mecca at the end of the 2nd world war, the world might not have the problems it has today. A world without religion could be paradise on earth. BUT Religion is big business and gets the likes of Trump, Bush I & II elected etc, helps to control society in uneducated ignorant countries, and is therefore a useful political tool. Religious nutters will be around for eternity until they run out of people to harm. I guess the tourism trade in Jerusalem and the middle east is going to be affected for a few years to come. I wonder how many American Christians are going to expect a friendly welcome in the Holy land now and for the next few years to come. It is not some where I would want to go, but if I did I would have a T-Shirt with I an NOT American written on it, or perhaps the union jack on it, but I would definitely not want to be mistaken for a American. I do think that the Palestinians support for the return of Texas to Mexico is very important, it is after all the Mexicans homeland, and there is actual evidence they did live there recently. However the mexicans were conquered by the Spanish who stole everything from the people who lived in America before they arrived, who in turn conquered the previous people who were there etc etc. Is it illegal in America for people to behave in a way that is likely to cause a breach of the peace? Has Donald trump used his powers in a way that is likely to cause a breach of the peace across the Moslem world? some of whom live in America. Will this move help the so called war on terror? Is it in Americas best interests? Does anyone have a sweep stake running on how long it will be before someone tries to kill Donald Trump.

The above statement is the only thing I stated above which is clearly wrong, if you swing a grandfather clock around your head quickly the clock will tick slower, as it would if you lowered it into a black hole, making the pendulum experience more gravity. If you drop a grandfather clock from a great height the pendulum will no longer experience gravity and slow down whilst in free fall. Clearly no one wants to debate the problem of time between the quantum world and space time. Is an atomic clock analogous to a grandfather clock? What tends to interest me, is what people do not know, not what they think they know. The problem of time has suddenly intrigued me, because no one attempted to discuss it, and that also is intriguing to know why. Ditto , almost everything I have stated or has been posted by others in answer to questions are from links to the work of various scientists. In my previous post I tried to point out to you that this thread is about QUANTUM entanglement not relativity or space time. Mordred told me, also read Mordreds thread on what space is. Ref requests for citations I have already posted links earlier on, on this and the dark matter and black hole threads. citation required

Both Portugal and Czech Republic have Socialists governments, not Capitalist. Would politicians implement this system for instance in an economy controlled by big business and lobby groups. Similar to the American and possibly the rest of the English speaking world?

Your view on space is blinkered. I will try and make this as simple as I can for you. 1) First remember the Mantra everything is quantum fluctuations, this includes everything from virtual particles to planets and entire solar systems. got it, if not go back to 1. 2) Ok lets move on, space is expanding at an accelerating rate due to Quantum fluctuations otherwise known as Dark Energy got it, if not go back to 2. 3) Mass absorbs quantum fluctuations giving the appearance of stretched space equivalent to space time. got it, if not go back to 3. 4) The apparent contraction and expansion of space is due to Quantum fluctuations in space, being produced at a steady rate, but absorbed in proximity to mass at a rate greater than they are being produced, causing a flow towards mass, to fill the vacuum. got it, if not go back to 4. 5) Quantum fluctuations can be entangled and particles separated by distance can act as one, information is transferred instantly. got it, if not go back to 5. 6) To avoid violating relativity information transfer between entanglement particles requires at least one more dimension. got it, if not go back to 6. 7) Quantum fluctuations appeared originally out of empty space got it, if not go back to 7. 8) Space without quantum fluctuations is philosophically zero nada no dimiensions, no time no space time etc. got it, if not go back to 8. 9) Space only exists with quantum fluctuations, a vacuum in space with no Quantum fluctuations constitutes a black hole. got it, if not go back to 9. 10) Under Quantum entanglement all things could to a certain degree be entangled. got it, if not go back to 10. 11) From your Mantra above: quantum fluctuations make up all things they appeared out of space and can appear directly connected whilst still separated by space. Space time explains the apparent curvature of space. The common thing between Quantum fluctuations and space time is SPACE. got it, if not go back to 11. Quantum entanglement requires an extra dimension to explain entanglement without violating GR. Is that dimension the substance of space. I think we already have discounted the concept of infinities and singularities in GR as stretching the truth a little, the concept of everything being squashed down to the plank length we also agreed was a nonsense. If the Big bang concept is to be believed starting with radiation, we must consider the reverse process otherwise known as the Big Crunch. When matter is crushed it gets hot, in a black hole if all the matter in the universe was squashed to the plank length it would have temperatures equivalent to and exceeding those predicted for the theoretical big bang. Hawking also predicts that the centre of blackholes may be full of radiation possibly resulting from matter decomposing back to radiation due to immense temperatures and pressure. He theories this supports a Black hole core and prevents it from collapsing, raadiation has inertia and may well be able to do this, but what happens when the core all becomes radiation. etc Any way the thread is about Quantum entanglement, not space time, I was just pondering the concept that both GR and the Quantum world are explaining the same thing but looking at the problem differently. There is no time travel in quantum mechanics, or in entanglement, at least that is what Swansont tells me. So from that point of view the time problem popps its head up yet again. If you swing grand father clock around your head it will tick slower due to increased inertia on the pendulum. If you move an atomic clock at an different angles to a moving gravitational field it may effect the time also. The movement of Quantum fluctuations are what makes space time equations work. Space time does not exist without quantum fluctuations. Quantum fluctuations and entanglement require an extra dimension to allow instant information transfer. That dimension is not time, unless you are talking about space\time in which case you are on the wrong thread.

MACHOs are dead. WIMPs are a no-show. Say hello to SIMPs: New candidate for dark matter https://phys.org/news/2017-12-machos-dead-wimps-no-showsay-simps.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter I suspect the search for dark matter is the search for something that may not exist. Or is a misunderstanding of what space is, and how gravity works.

Ive seen it but thanks, I like repeats, and the links are good too.