interested

Philosophically an idea occurred to me, but not being of a religious nature am not overly keen on it. But "in the beginning god said let there be light". Now if we drop of the god bit and any connection to the old testament, and look at unfolded space in a singularity consisting of perhaps N? dimensions. Space and time do not exist at this singularity in space. For a particle or energy to exist it exists outside of space time ie dimensions and time do not exist. For a photon time does not exist and neither does space, it is only in our space time that it appears to be restricted to c and be given properties. Philosophically could it exist in an extra dimension and just appear in our three D world at a frequency and speed. Bosons can all exist in the same place in space. https://phys.org/news/2014-05-does-light-experience-time.html

Apologies I had not realized that the threads belong to one person.

Dear mr swanson the OP is about space, how can asking questions about what space is be a hijack. Kind Regards

At he BB radiation existed, even if it came from a black hole disintegrating as per Quantum loop gravity. How you define space at this point might be open to interpretation. Space is a thing and it is expanding, and it may have more dimensions than just 4 dimensional space time. Are you saying an expanding space may have existed before the big bang. Are you also saying a singularity as defined under the maths never happened. You can not create energy or destroy it, what is your view on the zero energy universe concept. interference fringes assume space time exists, without space how do they apply? https://www.britannica.com/science/interference-fringe

To be infinite something is unattainable, philosophically we will never reach the edge of the universe so it can be regarded as infinite. Yes but what does that singularity look like in N dimensions. Philosophically an idea occurred to me, but not being of a religious nature am not overly keen on this. But "in the beginning god said let there be light". Now if we drop of the god bit and any connection to the old testament, and look at unfolded space in a singularity consisting of perhaps N? dimensions. Space and time do not exist at this singularity in space. For a particle or energy to exist it exists outside of space time ie dimensions and time do not exist. For a photon time does not exist and neither does space, it is only in our space time that it appears to be restricted to c and be given properties. Philosophically could it exist in an extra dimension and just appear in our three D world at a frequency and speed. Bosons can all exist in the same spot. Yes I know virtual particles are short lived quantum fluctuations appearing out of the vacuum from where? Could they also be popping in and out of another dimension of space. Why should there be an equal number of matter antimatter particles. As you are no doubt aware there is a theory of the zero energy universe, where both negative and positive energies may have created the original matter in the universe. (E+) + (E-) = 0. This is not the same as positron electron annihilation which results in a pair of gamma rays, the energy is not destroyed. But what would happen to a pair of gamma rays if they were in exact antiphase at the same point in space, they would cancel would they not? They even appear not to exist. At the original BB radiation originated from a singularity, it all existed in about the same point in space. Yes I know this as well #

I know space time are dimensions my question was ie if one thinks about the theoretical singularity at the point of the BB and the beginning of the expansion of the space time dimensions could there be other dimensions we dont perceive that perhaps did not unfold in the BB. A multidimensional Membrane making up space

How many dimensions does space have have. The edge of the visible universe is only the edge of what we can observe, we can not observe or reach beyond that point, the universe can therefore be regarded as infinite ie there is no reachable boundary. Could a singularity be defined as unfolded N dimensions If the big bang did originate from a singularity ie unfolded N dimensions of space then could virtual particles have combined to form the original matter in the universe.

Can space exist without virtual particles. Are virtual particles and space dependent on each other. Is the expansion of space driven by virtual particles, or does space expand allowing more virtual particles to come into existence. Edit which came first virtual particles or space. (Chicken and egg scenario) Has space and virtual particles evolved something else. an earlier universe than the big bang perhaps Could there be dimensions where space time does not exist.

This link is quite good, it explains a few things ref entanglement and non locality which I may have confused. https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1402/1402.4764.pdf

Thanks for the answer. No comment

I dont know Cahill so couldnt comment. Which definitions are you referring too? Strange appears to indicate its not a theory directly before your post. Is Quantum foam theory speculative or a theory whats the difference, it is not my theory. But it claims to agree with much of Relativity except the little bit about dark matter, which the holographic universe idea does not need either. Clearly there are different theories out there which might give some insight into how space could be manipulated. What I have been trying to do with this thread was to ask people using their limited knowledge of physics is it possible to distort space in any way.

Just to clarify here: are you suggesting that quantum fluctuations/foam are prevented by strong nuclear forces, or that the casimir effect still exists inside of materials but is just drowned out ie insignificant. Why is quantum foam theory not a theory it has the maths and using arxiv in the search throws up this https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0309016 and this https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0405078 . The above link also has maths. Edit: this link is more receent but you need to log in to get details https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2170763_'Dark_Matter'_as_a_Quantum_Foam_In-Flow_Effect

I know I know this also BUT the plates demonstrating the Casimir effect are also made of Atoms and Quarks, so why would a similar restriction of quantum fluctuations between atoms not appear similar to between the plates. What is the difference between a speculative concept and a theory, it appears to have lots of maths involved. Why wouldnt they produce the same effect Good question, I will pull out my school books and see what I can fathom, and then try and get to grips with the math editor on this forum, derivations from first principles as a performing monkey were easy when I graduated 20+ years ago, I am a trifle rusty now and no longer a trained monkey, but I guess its like riding a bike, and it might amuse me to have a bash. Looking at the molecular level say air or iron what would you say is the gap between the molecules. How large are atoms and how much empty space do you have inside of them? Clearly the gap is a lot smaller than the gap between the plates in the Casimir effect. Why not?

Is the Quantum foam theory not developed by physicists. Why is this theory not of interest and declared by you to be pop science when other theories are not. If two closely placed plates restrict the bandwidth of fluctuations then why would it not also apply between closely placed atoms or even inside of atoms. between individual quarks, it is very plausible.

You need to be aware of where the sun is most of the year. Is it mainly to the south or north of your location all year round or are you at a latitude wher in the winter time it is north of you and in the summer south or vice versa. Height makes no difference but angle to the sun does, the angle changes with time of day and season, so for the best performance obtainable it might be beneficial to make adjustable in some way.

So you think the work of Physicists looking into Quantum Foam and other theories to try and unify quantum theory and relativity is WAG or BS or something in Latin. I guess your just being Strange and not Interested In string theory space has a membrane that each end of a strings is connected to, these little strings way down at the quantum level represent quantum foam, or quantum fluctuations they are all talking about the same thing just describing it differently. Ifs buts and maybes. If space contracts when quantum fluctuations or virtual photons are restricted as MIGHT be happening in the Casimir effect and between Atoms then it MIGHT cause the stretching of space. The big question is can these quantum fluctuations be restricted or affected in anyway over a large area. Clearly if a single photon travels through the quantum foam, it may smooth it, leaving a gravitational effect that might draw photons together etc. Using radio waves or magnetic fields, virtual photons or distortions in space MIGHT actually momentarily smooth it and cause it to contract. etc

It is clear that the casimir effect exists between the plates, this effect must also exist in materials between atoms. I read some where on this forum that space does not exist without quantum fluctuations. So restricting said quantum fluctuations might cause space to shrink also. Gravity is caused by the stretching of space due to mass, it just kind of followed. And then I remembered this I saw posted earlier, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam and found this and tons of other stuff https://www.space.com/29629-quantum-foam-bubbly-universe-search.html. Viewing the absorption of quantum foam by mass as gravity and the none absorption of quantum foam as dark energy, is an interesting concept. The idea of being able to suppress it in any way or increase via the use of radio waves/ fluctuating magnetic fields etc was to me intriguing. Its is more commonly known as Bull Shit abbreviated to BS to be polite

I new it would be something simple

WAG? Wifes and girl friends DOH albecurrie froning warp drive

Speculating, by the use of intense short wavelength radio waves, the quantum fluctuations might be restricted to wavelengths similar to the wavelength of the radio waves or the gap in the casimir plates, but over a much wider area. Amusingly with enough power you might get slightly heated and the air may become ionized and glow a little as some electrons recombine, just like a UFO . I understand there is a weapon developed by the military for crowd control that uses 3mm wavelength radio waves to make peoples skin feel like it is burning.

Yes I know, like the Higgs boson it took a long time to detect it. But like Swansont says above there is not a complete theory yet. I have read a number of theories on this forum and on the internet that indicate quantum foam might be the cause of gravity and dark energy, others indicate it might something to do with entanglement, until there is a definitive answer I do not think there is any harm in at least thinking about or speculating about the subject. I think this is better discussed on the speculations thread, the OP of this thread I think has been answered in sufficient detail, (for me at least) thank you ALL for your input.

I posted this earlier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect a derivation and explanation is included. Are you thinking possible extra spacial dimensions could be involved?

Correct What causes gravity at the quantum level? Gravitons, Quantum fuctuations, fairies perhaps. Gravitons like fairies have never been detected leaving only quantum fluctuations which have been detected

exactly, that is why I was pondering the idea of trying to recreate the casimir effect using radio waves instead of metal plates. yes