Lasse

Why such radical thinking. Just black and white. True or false, one or zero.

Absolutely predetermined can not be. Predetermined in the past until the present moment. In the present i can have impact on the course of action.

This is true. Sooner or later if I am hungry I would eat it. Still I would have a level of integrity to change the course of action (i.e determin when I eat it)

So if I have a banana I can not decide that I eat it ot not. Everything is predetermined but I still have a free choice. It is some level of freedom. This freedom obviously can not be absolutely independent from everything else.

Why? Our freedom of choice will be as well always relative. It will be always effected by past social and cultural impacts, genetics, learned knowledge, experience, physical circumstances... Absolute "freedom" (separation) from the system can not be. Some level of individual integrity is detectable. If a theory does not describe the macro aspects of reality, than the theory is incomplete.

Death is an energetic change in reality. Every matter, every atom is there for the function, just not the Enegy One is. We know from thermodynamics that energy can not get lost just be the subject of change. I do not know you can call it life (most likely) but for sure that some level of conscious existence after experiencing death supposed to be... How could anything become energy, matter, information, space (time) free Noting... So you think there is a possibility(probability) that at the next moment of existance I am not me, what Nature ment me to be, but I could be anything and become a pink unicorn somehow? The freedom of choice impacting reality in the present moment seems to be true. You can not change the atomic structure without a lot of work. You can impact it's course in space Matter (the atoms you are) is impacted by energy i.e you still have to think to move. For me is seems to be a fundamentally predetermined system with some level of freedom...

It is good that you base your thinking on reality. Everything seems to be predetermined until the current moment.

Interesting point. My sense is that, if it is possible to calculate in such high dimensions with mathematics, than it is just showing the potential of mathematics and by that at least it should be able to express the recognisable physical reality. Clearly for the masses including me... I wanna see reality and I would like to count with it. I see that our sciences dealing with as much information (reality) as they are able to perceive. Including medical sciences. I think Science is on a good path. Thank you for the possibility to communicate my problems and recognitions. It helped at least me. Thank you for your thoughts. Sciences are! and should be united and rigoursly follow nature based evidences... 1/0= It has an answer. Science will have the answer. I can just believe this. I have faith and trust in Science. Science can be my Religion.

If the second is true how the first can be true?

What is proving this? And that it is true at the present time? The Future, since it did not happened yet, you can not count.

They were the first ones seek to understand Nature. Some of their questions still makes me think... It was a pre(different) state of science. non sequitur Mathematics fundamentally connected to the physical reality. Try to recognize something without it if you are looking for non sequitur. Or deny it's absolute necessity. Nature is the final source of information. Reality. How we think is Reality in every moment of spacetime. Digitally can even last forever... and I should not have believe in, that there is something to work for and it is achievable through Science. I like Scientific Clarity specially at it's fundamentals... It worth a question and a Honest (believed to be the best) answer.

Did not say that. I pointed that back than people seek to understand the nature of the physical reality. I.e. primitive(simple) physics presented through e.g. the Greek philosophers..

What about natural numbers? Pfff...enlightment that I recheck what is real end what is not... Koti... Exactly. And by that as good (true) as it possible. Mathematics is Science at the end of the day, Scientific principles apply on mathematics as well...It is the language of the Universe... Tell me something, what has no mathematically recognisable value through space, time, energy, matter or information...

You said there is everything to know Obviously I recognized that what I say is opposite somewhere what 7 billion ppl learned and know today... I had few questions along the path I think fundamental mathematics MINIMUM! has to follow Natural Reality i.e. natural Numbers. 0. 0 is a physical, mathematical, philosophical reference point. In our current recognition space (time) itself. An observation in the Universe can be executed just with one result and almost infinite physical reality related relative perceptions.

It took 10 years to recognize that....

In nature it is not ambiguous it is impossible, the closest you can get is energy and matter free space(time). Could you share that clear, simple concept with an explanation what is it based on and why?

Could you provide an example where the mathematical recognition is absolutetly has no relation to Nature? No, it does not Could you think without your brain? Could you have any mathematical recognition without it?

True, as does physics. Check the perception of space and time in the past 3000 years. So you think anatomy, physiology, microbiology, internal medicine, surgery, histology, pathophysiology, pathology etc.. is not based on evidence after a significant amount of time of rigours investigations, and by that the findings of Medical Sciences does not belong to Science and the trusted, Nature based, overall knowledge of humanity.... Do you think a physician could explain and execute a heart transplantation....? Can physics and mathematics show the same rigour with their results as Medical Sciences do? (e.g: infinite vs finite or 1/0=....)

Very true. True. True You can not know without evidence. True Let it be.

It impacts human cognitiv functions. The axiom that Never! can be proven true I think corrupt Science and the philosophy of science we spoke about.

Prove the following mathematical axiom with a physical example: 1*0=0 I don't really know why and how we count it like this but it not seems to follow any of Nature's principles.... Does not every mathematical recognition fundamentally connected to the physical reality? How can physics and mathematics say 2 different thing? And I should not be religious....

You own the freedom of mind, you think what you want. That is not Science.

True. The other perspectives of science is in the thread. I wanted to point that Science is APPLIED (purpose in the scenario and not the fundamental philosophy of science.) I really like the members responses. It takes time to digest information.... could not a moment be infinite? ..That looks quite impossible...but maybe it could last very very long, related to the physical circumstances. Medical science is science. Has to understand a lot of different aspects of sciences so please do not look down on it. It can save your life... I think we should examine your pink unicorn example a bit more profoundly. No harm...

True This we disagree on... I did not redefine what science is I supported it. I have showed a perspective from the "users point of view" I did this for a reason even you recognize that or not. My goals and faith depends just from Nature. I.e. even Science would take a religious turn and promote dogma(1/0) instead facts, I will believe that Natural Reality based knowledge, experience, questioning and learning is which can move me forward on my cognitive journey. I still think science is my Religion independent science has that recognized role or not. Believe systems are very personal and everyones should be respected until tgat does not harm anyone. A personal believe is not science independent from that is built on science or not. Scientifically proven and systemically tested valid theory just true and right can be. Does Time infinite or finite Swansont(The Time Keeper)? If some you know that best. What is your recognition after so many years of learning, studying and experiencing what it is? Can a moment be infinite?

You are right. Sorry for the expession. Science has religious tendencies. Imagine the human before the mayor surgery. Doesn't it need trust and faith that s/he lets an other human physically manipulating in the brain? If there is any problem during the operation his/her knowledge and experience and the our technical advancements s/he can believe in... That is science in application I often find that things I find irritating on others are fundamentally my problems... I am in constant conversation and I try to speak about things I think is interesting and important. I layed out why. I work as well so I do not have infinit (chuckle) time.... And you are accusing again... Why I can not take my time to learn and understand... why are you so stressed? We can have different opinion, I accept and respect that. That is why the conversation. There are few questions and recognitions in the thread which you could argue with reason. You seems to be lack of that. You rather accusing most of the time... Are you a scientist? You rather show the tendencies of a tired priest (chuckle) I have layed out a thought experiment based theory on space and time. We discussed the Nature of time and whether it can or can not be infinite. My conclusion is that it is finite and I reasoned this point in the thread. Point please if you comprehend where and why I am mistaken.(e.q expession of Nothing).