dhimokritis

Senior Members 3150 18748 posts Location: 珈琲店 Report post Posted 19 hours ago I’m not doing any such thing. I’m just giving you my opinion on your posturing. And I don’t know why you keep going on about “moderators” answering you. Swansont is answering you as a physicist and member of the forum, not as a moderator. Strange. You have not answered on my post to you. That sorry - because I appreciate your "erudition" especially for the theme of "sub particles". You have urged my curiosity. Can you show shortly for me, some of their works? I want to see how simpleton are my ideas.

Senior Members 1423 9214 posts Location: Somerset, England Report post Posted 23 hours ago Well I'm sorry you don't consider my answers 'satisfactory' I am pretty sure this is due to a language difficulty. I am guessing here, but can you tell us why Pretty well every time someone offers you an explanation you come back with new expressions that are not scientific English. I try to keep the English simple to avoid this but Mass charge ? To me this is the weight of gunpowder you put in a cannon or musket. Shadow Surely a photon is a quantum particle of light. Even in normal ordinary English a shadow is the absence of light. And what does the statement that an electron possess an electric charge and two electric charges mean? To me that adds up to three charges. Can you not get some help with your English ? This would be much less painful. Studiot Thanks for the replay, your gentile soled with mild irony. And you have not why be sorry. Any way: About my ill used English of word "shadowed". Let say for kind of joke: the light is white, the absence is black, together they gave gray. Have you explained why the atom is neutral? No. The gray neutrality of atom "i think" is its magnetic moment, which is the " gray shadow" of electric charges out side atom, of their interaction inside of atom". Let you see it as a non happy figure by me. About " mass charge". I repeat the formula of mass energy of electron particle : Ee = me * c^2 = G * M^2 / Rc = ((Rpl * c^2 / Mpl) * (Mpl^2 / Rc), Rc Compton radius I have suggested that Mpl * skrt alpha "must be the charge of sub particles" that create Common mass of particles ( electron, proton, neutron). This my hypothesis. It is your will to throw out of your consideration.

Strange: Don’t play the role of an attorney for moderators of forum that have shown kindness to answer on questions of folk participants like me in this speculation forum. I am grateful for the moderators that have had a conversation in my posts, even though when I have not been satisfied. The conservation in the forum is on free good well of every body. I have not any power to impose any body to answer me, or to have any right to blame some-body that his answer was not satisfactory “for me”. About the evidence, I means that I have not any “own personal evidences”. But the known evidences by scientist, I have used in my post, with out waiting for your suggestion. So if you have good well, please answer me about those evidences, without “sophism or rubber stamp statements”: 1 - Electron and positron particles have electric charges. Photons that are by - product of their collision have not. Don’t you see a breach in the law of “Conservation of charges”? 2 – Electron is a point particle. If so it has zero volume. How much is “specific mass” of electron particle? I think - “answers in my post have been not satisfactory”. If you think they are, you are free to think whatever you want. You say: don’t make claims. Why not? If my claims of Hypothetical “sub particles “ give a satisfactory answer for both questions? Are they speculative? I admit they are. The rest of your post will have an answer by me, after and if you answers about subject of my post, and not about analyze me..

’’’’ Your short rebut sentence is about two different issues: The absence of any evidence. The absence of any model. Well. The debut of non professionals in speculation forum can’t bring evidence. They have not knowledge in many aspect of physic, they have scarce mathematical baggage. When they see from exposition of science issues, that scientist time after time gave for folk, they feel admiration. Mostly. This not exclude doubt for “statements” that smells as “doubt inventions of scientists” and “not reasonable discoveries”. Here they dare to find “flaws” in the “ doubt theories ”. Especially in those theories that seems openly set up for only philosophic agenda. The only evidences that “non professionals like me” can give in some case, are “question that show disbelief”. And the lack of answers, or a set up one, is in itself an evidence, that here is something that smell flaw. About my model of “sub-particles of matter” . It is a naïve model, that tried to find answers for some questions that moderators of forum don’t give a satisfactory answer. Or that answers are blatantly counter intuitive. The model of “sub particles of matter” as the “things” that structure all kind of particles, mass and mass less, is a feeble effort to link relation of mass particles with those mass less. I have exposed my parts of model in all my posts, with aim that together the mosaic of them can stand and support each other. In this long trip I have changed some ideas. Most of my posts are closed. This post that I asked a question for Studiot, about “ Conservation of charges” , is triggered by absence of an satisfactory answer, about absence of charges and mass in product of annihilation. And the absence of answer too, by you, about blatant statement of “ point electron particle” .

Where said I that charge is energy? An isolated charge, in a Euclidian space is without any meaning. An isolated charge, in a Physic space (Which is in the fact space that differs from sterile space of Euclidis) is (after my hypothesis) the ability of “sub particle of mater” to posses an electric field extended around itself in that space. How farther go this extension, let discus some – time, again. e / (4*pi*ε0* X ) = U1 * (1 / X) = (1.4399643*10*-9 V. *1m. / Xm. Here X = (Equipotential radius X--- in meters.) And “electric energy” of “electron particle” (Ee): Ee = e * (e / (4*pi*ε0* Rc ) = e * ((1.4399643*10^-9) * 1 / (Rce) Here Rce is Radius of electron particle after Compton wavelength. I doubt that my poor English, may create confusion. When I say “ electric charge I doesn’t have in mind electron particle. Electron particle (in my hypothesis) posses an electric charge evident and two electric charges like photon in shadow state “”” Potential energy, is a “possibility for an energy of movement of mater”, after the freeing the matter sub particles, anchored in what - ever anchor.”” Probability of finding an electron at a particular location. I doubt that you misunderstood my idea. An electron posses an electric charge (which is evident), and two electric charge in shadow state (equal one photon in cyclic movement), anchored in the evident charge. An electron particle is not only charge, it posses mass. And I made hypotheses that “ mass of common particles like electron particle” is result of “mass charges M” which is the ability of sub particles of matter to attract or repeal via gravity law. The mass charge doesn’t mean mass. It is ability to create common mass in particles, moving in cyclic circles. And in precise radius Rx, like electron charge. So “electron particle” move differently from sub particles of matter that structure it , electron particle move as an integrity.

Swanson say: That phrasing is not accurate, with respect to what was being discussed. Charges will be involved, in some way, in the creation of a photon (more specifically, the electromagnetic interaction will be present), but photons themselves are uncharged. I think that it has to do with what is being discussed. Because is exact the “disappearance of charges “ that has to do with conservation of charge, and the “appearance” of them in so called annihilation and absorption of them which is “in some way”. “” Before going to identify mass energy with electric energy I think we need to make some reflection. What differs their identity? I think: In general --- what - ever kind of the energy, it is the result of movement of matter. We have in consideration in this post two kind of energy: Electric and mass. We identify them in their amount. For example: Electric energy of electron particle is: Ee = (e^2) / (4*ε* Rc) Mass energy of electron particle is : Eme = me * c^2 = (G*M^2 ) / Rc Here Rc Compton radius M= Mpl.*scrt(alpha). Ee = Eme They are as amount the same, in the same particle. But they differs when display one or other kind of energy.”

I don’t see (even in my scarce English) any contradiction. The electric charges and mass charges are different things (Notions). And “having not any evidence” doesn’t mean that for sure don’t exist in shadowed form May I am wrong but the next part of your answer that --- “electric charges is within an atom or not ---- is irrelevant “ that astonish me There is a “probability distribution”, of what that I can detect? This “probability of distribution”------ can’t it be the “existence of something that cycling with 10^20 Hz”, in a tiny surface of a tiny volume is “everywhere

So electrons in particles, where are embedded charges, are fix in an atom? That seems strange.. Isn't electric fields and magnetic fields the property exclusive for charges? .

My question to Studiot was about the meaning of “conservation of ….things”. If there is a conservation, this must be in a specific volume. And there must be a precise amount. After your post in photons the charge equivalent of waves is 3,3 time bigger than electric charge. And is “virtually” that it is nowhere. This is not “conservation” I think that here comes the necessity to explain for not professionals: exact the concept of charge. For this was my post. In my hypothesis a charge is embedded in “some – thing” that I call “sub-particle of matter”. The sub particles of mater may create different common particles of matter with mass. They posses gravity. They create spherical structure. Are centered in bodies. Have not any evident charge via conservation of equal numbers of +e, -e . That is “hidden charges”. But their existence gave some perceived phenomena. The sub particles of matter may create different common particles of energy, which are called photons. They don’t posses perceived gravity. They don’t present a perceived center of charge. They move in radial, linear movement. They create helicoidally structure in their trip. The evidence of existence of electric charges is display of their transitive electric and magnetic fields ( Which are the main properties of electric charges) in the physic part of space where they pass-by. As for their gravity properties, my hypothesis is the same.

Studiot Your answer about my question is somewhat in right sense. But IT ISN’T fully satisfactory in my opinion: You bring as an answer the lack of evidence of charges in atom, via “Conservation law”, when we are sure for existence of them. It is interesting using some “rubber stamps”, instead of clarifying openly the essence. So the question: “conservation law” ----- what this mean? In this case needed clarity: exists electric charges in product of annihilations or not. I mean in Photons? This was my question. If “conservation law of charges” applied even in this case, I say yes -- they exist. We know that in atoms they exist, but shadow each other. Their existence is in a certain “specific volume of space”, moving in spherical trajectories so they create spherical bodies that we call atoms. They are anchored in spherical bodies by ”Mass charge” with which they “coexist” in sub particles of matter. In the case of photons we have electric charges positive, shadowed by the same number of electric charge negative, (via Conservation law of charge--- right or no?). I say – yes. But in photons we have not an evidence for some mass charge. If in photons were not something that balance the attraction of “+e” with “-e” the multitude of frequencies would be impossible. And here became imperative existence of “ Conservation of Mass charges” even though in photons. Absence of any mass in photon must be explained in the same phenomena of shadowing of the contrary charges as in electron charges. That is in existence of anti Mass charge.

Studiot. I am curious to know your answer: where are gone two electric charge of "electron" and "positron" when they are annihilated. Are they really annihilated? And by the way ---- even their mass.

I am interested about so called Darkmosphere around the cosmos mass objects, and i think that maybe really must be something in the space around cosmic bodies, with variable density from the surface of them and beyond . But this something is not only DM (aka Planck charge of anti - mass, I suppose, but even electric charge +). This may explain why the density is more near the surface caused by electric attraction of DM with negative shell of surface, but not interacting with mass of surface of bodies via anti - mass repulsion. The space around the bodies is physics, with some anti-gravity property, i speculate, which may be the cause of some kind of levitation of gas - molecules, and the evasion of most of them in bodies with lighter mass gravity. I know that this post by me, will called hijack, but seeing that all opponents are only opposing the idea of O.P. without giving any help about his idea, on the other hand having nothing to say about the mysterious theme, show only that the moderators are predisposed against whatever new idea, that somewhat go against main - stream.

In Newton law, as in Coulomb law, the “mass gravity energy” and “ electrostatic energy are in Planck hypothetic charges: “e” (for electric phenomena), and “M” (for mass gravity) static phenomena (Relative for cyclic movements of two bodies).: For static cyclic movement (where don’t change the radius), formulas of energy ( in Planck hypothetic two sub-particles are: Ee = e * e / (4 * pi * ε * (Rx -> R) ) = e * U * (Rx -> R) = EM = G * M^2 / ( Rx -> R ) It’s simple “logarithmic laws”. I prefer logarithm with base 2. But those formulas are for relative static status, in mean time we are sure that every thing is moving and “generally normal” in cyclic movements, that is in frequency laws. On the other hand, static logarithmic laws are for an immense broad span of energies from zero till Planck energy (if we at least put a border: Planck, other ways from zero to infinite). This means that I would have (With my crap (coined by you) hypothesis) an infinite different “me” and different “mp”. This post is in support of a new hypothesis that state: Parallel with electric frequency we may have a mass gravity frequency, and a new energy for this kind of frequency. I found and explained, above, that this frequency depends by inverse of Rx^2 and it became “1” for energy hm = 3.32762149 * 10 ^-13 j / Hm. Around this point in span of mass gravity frequency are cornered “me” and “mp”. like possible stable particles. At least so I suppose and hope. If you see, the sub – particle’s charges ‘e” and “M” alike Siamese brothers, the brother “e” is leading in the trip. Hence frequency of “M” will have alpha. ------- About “hyperphysics” that corrected Bohr, can I know when is ‘invented” ? And in the span from Bohr till this invention, atoms have been “flat” and nobody was concerned? About: protons are not elementary particles. I don’t say are “elementary particles”. I say electron and proton are elementary COMMON particles, and with this I intend to hypotheses that both, even “me”, are composed by more simple sub particles. In femto-cosmos I am trying to implement some thing from Planck and Einstein works, which both were not too happy with quanta- mechanics extremism. I admit that is a shame that I have misused and deformed some of their ideas, transforming them to conform my hypothesis. It was like a dwarf that dare to correct the works of titans. About: Show me the math, or this thread is finished. The only math I have is based in hypothesis : Physics dependence of static energy of electric field in what-ever point of space around is inverse by segment “Rx” between sub particle and point. The same for field of Mass gravity and its static energy. The dependence of electric frequency is inverse with radius Rx. The dependence of mass gravity frequency is inverse with radius Rx^2 This all I have to say.

In my first post in this forum, I introduced idea of spherical movements of the “hypothetic sub-particles of mater” that posses in itself both electric charge “e” and mass charge “M” = MPl.* α. Those charges display self, alike, but some kind different properties, which became evident in the same moment when one sub-particle interact with another sub particle. In this interaction both subs “want” to move via planetary mode, forced by field of Mass gravity charges. In the same time electric charges want to move in planetary mode but in different plane. The result is a spherical linear movement, in which are involved two or three subs. Obtuse. May be. Until (for an analogy) you show me how hydrogen atom of Bohr is generated in a spherical atom. Don’t forget that Bohr used only Newton law. Yes “me” is for elementary common particle of mater, and “mp” for proton, both the main basic common particles that together of an immense number of photon particles and neutrinos create everything in nature.