Unitive_Mystic

So you essentially agree that pale and dark skined people will congregate in some populations? The alternative to migration in such a situation would be intermarriage, of course. However that is highly unlikely, because when it comes to physical attraction people, especailly males, they tend to be attracted to people that look like them. Male might be attracted to the most subtle things that are actually a similarity. For an example a person with colored eyes might find a female with colored eyes more attractive than a browned eyed female. According to research reported in the July 2010 issue of Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, we are attracted to people who resemble our parents or ourselves. this would also include skin color. So by looking at society as a whole, the majority of people will probably marry those who are within their own race. So I am not sure if light skinned people will choose to do that instead of traveling to a coniferous forest, dicideous forest, or a northern mountain range. Perhaps some people will choose to intermarriage but most might choose to migrate. I personally know people that would choose to migrate and I think more people will choose to if they find it necessary. Do you agree? Why or why not? If that was the case everybody would be the same color. People that prepare for these disastrous events know to stock up on vitamin D because the point in that survival situation is to be as healthy as possible. "Stocking up on multivitamins, Vitamin-C, etc., is an important additional “to-do” on a prepper’s list. As modern life as we know it falls further into decline, you need to stay as healthy as possible in case the SHTF." "The point is, you should recognize that you will probably not be eating as well as you’ve been accustomed to, and there may be a need for vitamins in your preps." Health would be more important to us in a survival situation, especially if we have to live as natural as possible. And moving to our natural habitat would be a step to take in order to do that.

Lots of people today are homebound, have an indoor occupation, and alot of people with dark skin live in northern latitudes so it doesnt surprise me to see so many people vitamin D deficient. That doesn't make D deficiency harmless and in a collapsed society, it would be even more harmful (because of the importance of immunity to sickness and the preservation of energy) White people have been living in southern climates for hundreds of years. They used brimmed hats, linen clothing, natural sunscreen, long beards and hair. These methods are good but alot of times they were inefficient or made you even hotter outside, still had prematurely aged skin and a higher skin cancer risk. Still better off in their natural habitat. Let's change the situation and say that civilization wasn't collapsed yet and we all had a warning. Then, would you think that we should relocate to areas we can live as naturally as possible while we could?

I think you have been playing a little to much fallout lol. Half of the world's population is vitamin D deficient, but they have doctors, vitamin supplements, and antibiotics. In the beginning people will have cars. And that is how they would relocate. And people would only relocate if it would be necessary. Which in alot of situations it would. People wouldn't use sunscreen, sunglasses, lenin clothing and skin cancer treatment and vitamin supplaments if they didn't have to. I think that you might think that people with white skin living in southern lattitude would be fine without modern conveniences. History would say otherwise.

I think you may be misunderstanding the main point. Skin tone didn't force migration, migration forced the skin tone. Now that white people are adapted to northern latitudes, they will survive best in northern latitudes. This would force a migration in a collapsed society because they would not have access to the technology that allows them to live outside their natural habitat. Such as sunscreen, lenin clothing, sunglasses, vitamin D supplements, etc. Vitamin D deficiency itself wouldn't kill you, but it would hinder your ability in survival. Vitamin D would be more important in a survival situation. How? Because sickness would be very important to fight off and most people would probably be using more energy than usual. Vitamin D helps us in these areas. Why would knowledge be lost? It wouldn't, the resources would. Most mechanical tools would require not only knowledge but mechanisms and contraception that need to be welded and most people probably wouldn't know how or where to get these things. We would go back to traditional farming, probably using basic tools and equipment and planting heritage seeds (fruits and vegetables that are native to the land) so that it doesn't require any special soil and maintenance. Collapse in civilization in the sense we are using in this thread would be an economic collapse and a collapse in the way the world works in general. And a collapse in civilization from a ww3.

Only for a certain period of time. Tractors have parts that need replacement. Maybe a few generations down they will last.

What I also mean is that (modern) agriculture wouldn't be here without modern civilization. Modern meaning that if civilization falls, all the technology that only gets into people's hands by using money, manufacturing companies, and an economy. Tractors could no longer be used, for an example. Also there are alternatives to agriculture, like permaculture, which would probably be used alot. You are correct. Humans did spread out across the globe for thousands of years. And each part of the globe has a different environment. That is why we have people of different skin tones.

About inuits... skin tone is not all genetic: more melanin is produced when you are out in the sun. Sunlight exposure causes the optic nerve to signal the pituitary gland to release more melanin. Thus, you tan. But Inuits vitamin D intake wasn’t dependent upon the sun. They get all that they need from their diet, heavy on types of fatty fish that are naturally rich in vitamin D. The plentiful amounts of the vitamin kept them from developing less melanin. In fact, before milk was fortified with D, people living outside of Northern Canada and Alaska loaded their diets with fishy products, such as cod liver oil, to get their daily supplement. So despite their chilly climate and lack of sun exposure, it’s the Inuit diet that has kept them in their darker skin tone. Actually I wouldn't really consider them "dark" they are more tan than dark. The Inuit experience very, very, high levels of reflected ultraviolet radiation long wavelength ultraviolet radiation from the snow. So their tan skin actually protects them from this high amount of UVA radiation. So fish act as the supplement, while the murderous dosages of ultraviolet, they receive in the summer, acts as the driver for the retention of melanin in the first place. Agriculture probably wouldn't allow people to live outside their natural habitat. What allows people to live outside their natural habitat is technology. Which wouldn't be here without modern civilization. And Yes, because of the development of our language, people of different cultures would still be able to communicate. However this doesn't mean that they would live together because they still have to follow the enviroment that they are suited for. Vitamin D was a concern in a world without civilization. That is why Europeans developed white skin. Humans needed to adapt because their dark skin worked against them in northern latitudes.

You say that no civilization doesn't = No technology. Which I agree, but what l am saying is that technology that can only be created through modern civilization, such as vitamin D pills, sunscreen, sunglasses, brimmed hats, lenin clothing ect. So the white people living in the south will have to try and survive with no sun protection which can lead to negative affects and hinderance in survival. Black people in the north will have to survive vitamin D deficiency and in some cases lactose intolerance. And people in certain countries with a large range of biomes like the United States will have a bunch of relocation opportunities. And I'm sure science organizations and religious ones will team up to help people gain their garaunteed survival, and that could include helping people relocate. That being said my theory is that the different races will relocate to their natural habitat if possible.

So do you think people would have to return to the habitat they are adapted to for the most garaunteed survival in a situation of civilization collapse?

Vitamin D deficiency is present in almost all diseases and people with dark skin in northern latitudes are much more prone to getting vitamin D deficiency. What do they do about it? Well, there a vitamin D pills to help you, do all people with darker skin commonly do this? I imagine they would if they are vitamin D deficient, if they don't do anything about they probably don't know or care. And yes, white people did survive the sun before sunscreen and they had a number of ways like Zinc oxide Wide brimmed hats When working in fields, a handkerchief or bandana to cover the neck Parasols Cocoa butter, Petroleum jelly Oils/ herb mixtures Long hair Beards These methods (besides long hair and beards, which will only make you hotter) will not be available after a civilization collapse because these things will not be manufacture. People can probably make some of these things but probably not because they will be to busy doing more important stuff like building, traveling, farming, and hunting. However, vitamin D is much more valuable in a time of civilization collapse because you'll need to use alot more energy. So I suppose they would have a difficult time surviving.

Well I wouldn't say Afircans can live anywhere. Their skin needs more sun because the melanin levels in the skin makes you need more sun to get the proper amounts of vitamin D. So if people can live anywhere, why did they evolve differently if they didn't need to? Is it just survival advantages?

So I have been studying evolution and seeing how people from different parts of the world adapt to their enviroment. So the data I have gathered so far is that humans with a darker skin tone gives them the advantage in areas closer to the equator, people with lighter skin tone are adapted to lower light levels further away from the equator. Here is the further information. "Surprisingly, the team found no immune genes under intense selection, which is counter to hypotheses that diseases would have increased after the development of agriculture. The paper doesn’t specify why these genes might have been under such strong selection. But the likely explanation for the pigmentation genes is to maximize vitamin D synthesis, said paleoanthropologist Nina Jablonski of Pennsylvania State University (Penn State), University Park, as she looked at the poster’s results at the meeting. People living in northern latitudes often don’t get enough UV to synthesize vitamin D in their skin so natural selection has favored two genetic solutions to that problem—evolving pale skin that absorbs UV more efficiently or favoring lactose tolerance to be able to digest the sugars and vitamin D naturally found in milk. “What we thought was a fairly simple picture of the emergence of depigmented skin in Europe is an exciting patchwork of selection as populations disperse into northern latitudes,” Jablonski says. “This data is fun because it shows how much recent evolution has taken place.” Anthropological geneticist George Perry, also of Penn State, notes that the work reveals how an individual’s genetic potential is shaped by their diet and adaptation to their habitat. “We’re getting a much more detailed picture now of how selection works.” That being said, in today's modern day civilization we have the technology to help us live outside our natural habitat (sunscreen, sunglasses, skin cancer treatment). If civilization falls we won't have access to this equipment, sunglasses break and sunscreen expires. Where will people of different races go? Will Caucasian and Europeans move up north as well as Afircans and Mexicans move down south? Will they move at all? If not, how will they live outside their natural habitat without modern conveniences.

So I have been studying evolution and seeing how people from different parts of the world adapt to their enviroment. So the data I have gathered so far is that humans with a darker skin tone gives them the advantage in areas closer to the equator, people with lighter skin tone are adapted to lower light levels further away from the equator. Here is the further information. "Surprisingly, the team found no immune genes under intense selection, which is counter to hypotheses that diseases would have increased after the development of agriculture. The paper doesn’t specify why these genes might have been under such strong selection. But the likely explanation for the pigmentation genes is to maximize vitamin D synthesis, said paleoanthropologist Nina Jablonski of Pennsylvania State University (Penn State), University Park, as she looked at the poster’s results at the meeting. People living in northern latitudes often don’t get enough UV to synthesize vitamin D in their skin so natural selection has favored two genetic solutions to that problem—evolving pale skin that absorbs UV more efficiently or favoring lactose tolerance to be able to digest the sugars and vitamin D naturally found in milk. “What we thought was a fairly simple picture of the emergence of depigmented skin in Europe is an exciting patchwork of selection as populations disperse into northern latitudes,” Jablonski says. “This data is fun because it shows how much recent evolution has taken place.” Anthropological geneticist George Perry, also of Penn State, notes that the work reveals how an individual’s genetic potential is shaped by their diet and adaptation to their habitat. “We’re getting a much more detailed picture now of how selection works.” That being said, in today's modern day civilization we have the technology to help us live outside our natural habitat (sunscreen, sunglasses, skin cancer treatment). If civilization falls we won't have access to this equipment, sunglasses break and sunscreen expires. Where will people of different races go? Will Caucasian and Europeans move up north as well as Afircans and Mexicans move down south? Will they move at all? If not, how will they live outside their natural habitat without modern conveniences.