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If i think about it, i read on Quora: that after age 20, we lose 1 gram of brain mass per year. Given, maybe only hope to live forever: would be replacing some of neurons with artificial ones and slowly replace whole brain like this. Until your brain is slowly remade with artificial neurons. Because problem with transferring consciousness directly into a computer may be - that your brain dies and information is only copied. Than you would die and only your copy would live inside a computer! There is no proof information is immaterial and can be transferred like this. Going with former method, even so i think you would be just a copy of a copy. Here is why i think that: Because even in a living brain, neurons constantly die and being replaced. Memories are part of your personality, without them - you wouldn't be you. We lose some memories permanently, or at least they are lost to a consciousness. And even if we retain them, your neurons die and being replaced. So they are stored in different neurons.. you are just a copy of a copy. Even it doesn't feel that way, because we don't lose all cells at once. Or cells, that are part of immediate consciousness. There is no temporal death, like i would be dead for 30 seconds and voila now my brain is restored and i continue experiencing the world. But fact is we are probably copy of a copy, that cells that were processing a consciousness 10 years ago, some of them may be gone and you are just a copy of a copy. Psychologically: it sucks imagining working hard towards immortality, only for you to die and your copy continues to live on. Because we are motivated only by pain and pleasure - (negative and positive emotions) and with survival instinct, after all we are survivors. That's how we evolved/survived and even evolution has no goal, we are motivated to survive and feel negative emotions when thinking about death. So we want to live forever and because terror management theory, at least we need to deal somehow with death, to leave something behind etc. Even there is no logical reason and it doesn't matter, after you die: you won't care if you were homeless, or famous... So even we wouldn't die and replaced our brain gradually with an artificial neurons and than maybe transferred our minds into a computer. It wouldn't be really us, even for all intends and purposes we would be, lets say 100% human like, but in an artificial form. For sake of preserving consciousness: even we wouldn't experience death and had continuous experience, because delays of replacing parts of our brain would be so small to be conceivable and wouldn't affect everything at once. We would technically still die and be just copies. Question is does that really matter ? If we are already copies of ourselves... And we can't tell a difference. And unless we die and will be copied to a computer, do we really care ? Even some futurists etc. claim we may achieve immortality by a year 2045, some neurologists and scientists doubt that and say: it won't be maybe possible hundreds of years yet. Even technology is improving exponentially and if we make human like - intelligent ai and improve performance of computers drastically. Who knows really... because it is very complex. Not to mention, even if you were successfully transferred into a computer: your mind would have to be backed up in case of catastrophe. Or you would eventually die, so even after that you would become a copy of a copy! But still if you lived like 10 thousand of years, it would feel like forever. Thing is: imagine working whole life towards that goal and than not being able to achieve it... Today times are too boring, we can't even travel to other planets and galaxies and beyond, if we ever will... And small minority of them is habitable and rest are just wastelands, even we could terraform it eventually. And it feels we are alone, are there other species out there to meet ? People that are going to Mars not gonna have great lives, it will be amazing much much later... And free will is illusion, everything is predetermined, or random. Even there are other viewpoints and philosophies. Given human experience, i don't think there is a free will. It feels pointless to live without free will! Life is pretty depressing. Except maybe: if universe is cyclical and we are reliving same lives over and over, that would be immortality, even pretty depressing one. Or new universe is born and we live other lives - much better one! But that's not kinda of immortality, i am not talking of.

I usually like to read pages on wiki about authors, because there are some biased people, which think because people with OCD, can overcome their problem. That implies, that mind is immaterial or something. I don't even...

It is easy to find if an article was peer-reviewed, but who reviewed it ? That's important as well. It could have been scientist, which claims nobel prize winners eaten chocolate, therefore eating chocolate increases intelligence... I found an interesting publication and i would like to check who reviewed it. Not sure if there is a way to find out. If site for publications is of high quality, article itself is probably legit, but nothing is 100% perfect. I am honestly surprised, that you can't see who peer-reviewed it as well as names of authors, because it makes sense.

Ye i saw that. Wealthy will probably be able afford it sooner and get the edge. But from concerns project 2045 they aim to be affordable like for 300 000$. Still this is not version which will have computation power like supercomputer, you will be only in robot, who get into that first will get huge advantage. If like some cabal of rich people got first into computer with supercomputer power, that would be bad. Or even if people get there, there is 20% chance humanity will go extinct at 2100, because of global warming and endangering species and destroying environment... Or if ai destroys humanity.. Maybe people survive on mars, while die in earth who knows. It is pretty tough to survive in universe, to even have life supporting habitat and than to not get wiped by anything, there are pretty scary things in universe, so matter from quarks, which could poison whole planets and turn them into same matter. Or some explosion on atomic, or subatomic level, which could destroy whole universe and physical laws as we know them, or black holes and who knows what. Humanity probably won't survive even that long, who know if we will be able to achieve ftl, or even get to posthuman stage. And i agree torture is pretty ugly, people in middle age used to be cruel and disgusting, obviously even today some, why would you wanted to risk it and die painfully, if universe is going to repeat itself forever maybe...

I didn't ask about boredom tho, i am interested what point could exists for people to want immortality. Specifically rather, than obvious reasons to live longer, or survival because people fear death, or traveling to new planets etc...

This is lounge right, you can talk about anything here, i am just interested what people see about immortality. That's it...

Same even with immortality, is question: 1. if you get transferred into computer 2. or die and copy of your mind gets transferred Even even if so, what if someone kills you, or you die by accident, if you mind will be backed up and than copied to new body, it won't be you, but your copy. Even if you was lucky and lived like 10k years, eventually you will die anyways, even universe is probably going to end and it will be difficult to survive... Same there is no point, why would you do that ? So you can live another x years for what ? And it is so boring, everything is predetermined, or random, which is not any better... So you maybe explorer new planets, or travel through time, or to another dimension and learn some new things, because we are programmed to do stuff e.g. our survival, otherwise we get bored. Don't know how you see it, but this is so utterly boring.. Every possibility bores me to death, even ai starting to bore me already and it is rather new...

Ye i actually read a lot of articles when people do that, i google free will news often and 90% is crap, there won't be major progress in such a short time. And even in other fields people actually do that. It was proven that it is better to know multiple fields like elon musk to, he takes principle from other field and apply it in to something else. But not everyone have 1000 wpm reading speed and iq 200 to have time to study everything. Especially for simulation argument physicists and computer scientists argued a lot, but why if in our universe it would be possible to simulate another universe they think it would tell us anything about whether we live in simulation or not. In our universe could be less amount of physical laws than in theirs and even i we couldn't simulate it doesn't mean they couldn't, even bill nye said it would be to difficult to discern and i agree, i think we could never know.

Ye i just wanted confirmation, that this expression is crap.

Even achievement is illusion, someone born with high intelligence and didn't do anything, just got better coinflipp, even you know you did nothing, how you can feel contentment, if you have success with something. If everything you do is pointless, humanity will extinct sooner or later. People actually search for meaning, because it is important for their survival to live meaningful lives. I read study, that scientist have greater sense of meaning and there are studies about meaning increasing happiness, which is evolutionary mechanism for survival. Maybe you help save some lives, but than you can die painfully yourself, which is dissuading from helping others, because it doesn't even guarantee you won't die painfully. Like Turing, he killed himself, because court ordered him chemical castration, after saving 13 million people, 99% of people is cancer, i don't know what more you can do and see what you get in return. Still one can do very little. And everything is predetermined, or random it will be how it will be, you can't really change anything, that would be stupid to try. Even if you decide to help you can probably do small good, but humanity will still go extinct sooner or later, so it is ultimately utterly pointless. If probably humanity will destroy itself, animal life is already dying, it is predicted that humanity will extinct at 2100 on 20%. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190508113351.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190506093610.htm Even if humanity could survive in computer, or mars, this is still pretty devastating and a lot of people will die. Because corporations and elitists control everything and their only concern is to make as much money as possible, they know they will die and after that there will be probably nothing , so they don't care about future.

I read this article about free will and some neurologist was flaming there sabine hossenfelder for her ignorance and claims about other fields which outside her profession. https://mindmatters.ai/2019/05/can-physics-prove-there-is-no-free-will/ And than he himself talk nonsense, which is easy to prove wrong in my opinion. I think expression that probability is antithesis of randomness is flat out wrong. Because probability is chance that something happens against all other possibilities, like if you roll 1 on dice, there is chance 1/6 that it happens. But it doesn't say anything about why it happened, it could be predetermined by angle you throw it and gravitation etc. Or it could be cause randomly, by some variables. Events in quantum mechanics aren't without cause, but you can't tell exactly where particle will end up. Consider simple universe there could be only 2 scenarios, meteor hits earth and meteor doesn't hits earth. It would have been choosen randomly between these 2 and you can still predict probability something happen on 50%. It is funny how these people flame each other for something they said and they instantly blame it on that it is outside their profession.

Hey, i am in chronic pain and i can't do anything which involves thinking, because my head hurts, or doing mechanically, because i have repetitive strain injury and i am bored as hell, literally that bored as you can be, absolutely bored... And i am suffering from existential boredom and i think life is pointless, so i don't find anything interesting and meaningful and i don't feel pleasure, or content from doing anything and i thing free will is illusion, so there is that, but still, if i could do anything i would, because it is still better, than do nothing, but i can't. So i wonder if there are some pills to not feel boredom, or some method. Where i could just stare whole day to the wall e.g. and not feel bored. I read only that some pills temporarily reduce boredom, that's no use. I heard people with alexithymia - condition, where people have trouble identify emotions in themselves, or feel them. I read they can't tell difference between boredom and hunger e.g. , wonder than how would boredom feel. I read they have some physical sensations, so if boredom would feel like hunger or something. Doubt anything exists like that currently, or i read on quora once, about some pills that completely disable emotion, can't find that site anymore, not sure what would it do exactly. Anyway i wouldn't try anything, if i wasn't sure what it exactly does. I would appreciate anything to disable boredom, if there is such a thing.

You cannot change that universe is gonna extinct, you cannot change civilization will extinct much sooner. And that evolution is fact etc. Noone can...

Again how talking to someone change how the world is ? And i already did so.. Ye intellectually it cannot be answered, but scientifically it can, while science is based on materialism and observation of causal relations, that's best it gets and everything else is guessing. And i read scientific facts like evolution. I didn't choose my genes and environment, e.g. if borned in different environment with different genes, sure i would be a different person. My life is fine, i was lucky yet, i have above average life in terms of money and possibilities, that's not the problem. Why would i want to improve anything, when humanity is gonna extinct and even universe. What would be point of doing that. People are doing things, either because of pain, or pleasure, but that's just illusion, that's subjective motivator for our survival, it is not even real. How could i feel contentment for example if i had success, while i know it is just luck, i didn't do anything. And people with existential boredom cannot derive pleasure from doing things, because they don't see point in doing anything. I agree with point from this video: that if life didn't have meaning i wouldn't do anything in my life. Life if pointless that's it, i don't want to do anything...

I am going to the psychiatrist and 2 months i used to go to psycholog from organisation for people with autism, even that expert with 2 phd, which studied free will, he didn't disagree with me, not that free will exists or not, which you can't theoretically prove, or disprove completely, but agreed about genes, environment, evolution and what not. If i was delusional, than ye talking to psychiatrist can change your worldview. Or cbt, which only cost money, not that it would be a problem, but it doesn't do anything. There is nothing psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist whatever can do with this: It is point of existential boredom, people cannot derive pleasure from anything, if they don't see point in anything- don't take this literally. -Free will is probably illusion on 99.9%, even einstein didn't believe in free will, stephen hawking, nicola tesla, goethe, from living people: sean carrol, sabine hossenfender, richard dawkings and there will be more people i don't know -achievement is illusion: this article pretty much nails it. -Evolution is not even theory but fact. -These are theories, but still good ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe Even universe will cease to exist, why would i do anything, when even universe will end, life is pointless. I don't understand you have to know this. -If eternal return is true, we are experiencing same events infinitely over and over again. Two theories i read on quora are not much popular, but superdeterminism is not popular only because you cannot test it, not that wouldn't be bad theory. Roger Penrose is now working on universal rebirth. Scary think is even possibility of it. What is someone dies in fire over and over again. -Love is just chemicals in brain, just evolutionary mechanism for survival, so race is reproduced and so parents stay together, which increases chance for offspring survival, you can give octopuses ecstasy and they manifest social behavior, that octopus had surely will to choose that... Neurologists found out we are motivated by either pleasure or pain. -Altruism doesn't exists, altruism is selfish, if you help someone, you are motivated by pleasure, because he had to cooperate to survive and we got edge upon other races, because survival > selfishness, so it feels good, so you are doing it for your pleasure and there is bigger chance if you help someone he will help you back and 86% people believe in religion, so they think that it is right think to do help someone, but still they are motivated by pleasure and pain which can be related to hell and heaven. -There are no ultimate moral standards, it just social construct like patriarchy, moral standards are stemming from emotions. Emotions are just feedback from bodystates, emotions serve as evolutionary mechanisms for survival. Tho evolution has no goals, there is even evolutionary suicide - but nevertheless, we are pretty motivated to survive, it is how it is. And evolution is that just some forms adapted to their environment, they can use what they got for their disposal, on other planet lifeforms differs. - I was animal someone would kill me another animal, or human, i they would torture me for testing, or i would die from pollution... -Not sure how i am gonna die, i can die painfully. -There is no justice in the world -Russia is oligarchy, more than 2/3 of wealth is owned by oligarchy and it's mafia state, america is totalitarianism, myth of democracy, it is only democracy from outside. Australia heading towards corporatocracy in 2030. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check -Coporations have more economy than states: http://www.globalissues.org/article/234/the-rise-of-corporations globalization favors corporations and tax havens and stock buy bucks and america, they legalized lobbying in 2011, don't remember that law how it calls. And corporations made money from war in iraq - already eisenhower warned against military industrial complex and thanks to centralized banks elitists come to power into us. + i have another 20k reasons, or more, which cannot be changed by talking to someone, it is absurd, hilarious... I am realist, i have asperger, so i have damaged, or not correctly developed limbic system, so i have more developed neocortex(not necessarily), or because i have deficit in social interactions, i focus more on logic, or thinking, which gave me bonus, whatever, point is i am very realistic, not autistic :D, i know about autistic thinking and i don't observe no such thing in me, but i know everyone of us, we have slight delusions, it is not even possible to not have, unconscious knowledge is absorbed without applying judgement to it. I can estimate my intelligence very precisely, not lower, or higher, i know iq changes and it depends on various factors, i was saying that before i read anything and i was thinking, that everything on macro level is predetermined myself, before anything, because how straight forward it is. There was one kid, he was worst in math in school, literally terrible and he started listening to math champion counting and become winner of some global championship in math, because neuroplasticity, scientist said it was given genes, because not everyone could do it, you still have to have right genes. Eeh.. So if perfectly normal people develop brain tumor and they become pedophiles, that's ones interpretation neurological/biological theory ? I don't see how free will is possible. Evolution is fact for example, not even theory and Richard Dawkins said as materialist, he doesn't believe in free will. So for example article on ncbi that criminality is inherited in families, that's just ones interpretation on biological theory , when gut microbes can make us crave foods, free will would be possible only if world wouldn't be materialistic and that's impossible to disprove, because it is unfalsifiable. So it is guessing and i don't like guessing, because it is pointless, live in uncertainty and only option you have is guessing. Or if i borned in prehistory, i would die in fight, or to disease, so i wouldn't even get to live life and i would have no options, so i guess that would be free will, do you know how limited such life would be and evolution is cruel. I wouldn't even get mental capacity to decide and understand thinks and knowledge, so i would do something dumb, which would cost me my live probably. How it was decided that i am atoms which merged together, i could be bacteria if events was different, it is from same atoms that i am... Everything on macro level is determined and in quantum mechanics indeterministic and even deterministic in some interpretations. By definition cosmology studies universe as a whole, we are parts of it, we are atoms.. And is connected to the fields of metaphysics and ontology. Particles which are indistinguishable from each other and particles have no will in the first place, will is emergent phenomena, but it seems more like automation than agent that is able to decide freely to me. http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2016/01/free-will-is-dead-lets-bury-it.html http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/07/limits-of-reductionism.html http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2014/01/10-misconceptions-about-free-will.html Second link says, she grants believing in free will thanks to failure of reductionism, but than she says it takes more than that to convince her into believing in free will. Counter arguments to the free will: https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0208104 There is new theory ribosomes may be selfish not dna, not certain yet so it is useless, but can serve as remark, because how other things are e.g. survival. Ribosomes are just replicators, why everything replicates, it may be how permutations of atoms touched themselves and make it so, it is just emergence - random luck, it seems at least. http://www.eoht.info/page/Defunct+theory+of+life I know thims.. xD but i use it as perspective and than i search more to find facts and verify it. I found out atoms are not going anywhere, they still exists when they form molecules, does that mean that if something move is it alive ? Atoms in rock are constantly moving so what, does that mean rock is alive ? Atoms from that rock could be used to build you or me, if you had skills. When we say something, or think, it is just emergence of consciousness from interactions of atoms it seems. What about extremely talented kids, which read newspaper in 3, if they had no inrited superior genes how is that possible, anyone could do that, every kid would be doing that. Or some kid have exceptionally good shot-term memory and remembers whole song on first trial and can reproduce it on piano. Right away find something good about iq hmhm wait, i need more time, i read over 1 million articles, i couldn't find again everything even i wanted. To answer properly i will just have to google week or some ridiculous time and i feel worse everyday. Personality was found by twin studies, but even than it wasn't successful completely separate genes from environment, i know gene studies are iffy, but it is getting better everyday and still it affects a lot and that's they point. Ye he studied free will problem.

I already talked with expert with 2 phd, about meaning of life and free will and he didn't say he disagree with me in any of my points. Not that free will is illusion ,but like everything will extinct, even universe and about genes etc. I think on 99.9% that free will is illusion, you didn't choose your genes and environment. Personality is up to 40% determined by genes and iq up to 90%. People which develop brain tumor become pedophiles. Free will seems that is obviously illusion. We didn't choose our preference and we are influenced by external factors. Even tesla said he feeled like automaton, he couldn't even sleep, because how much he was delved into his inventions. I don't see point in living, when free will is illusion and everything will cease to exists anyway so... BTw talking to someone doesn't change how world is, it doesn't do anything.

We are just atoms, which forms molecules and molecules make neurons and emergence of consciousness is just caused, by neurons communicating with each other, like viscosity, or order in ant colony, no part knows what whole part is doing, but each communicates with its adjacent part and sync up. It seems that we are just biological supercomputers. Odd belief ? I don't think, it is fact we are from atoms, which are indistinguishable, if my atoms scrambled differently i would be just rock. Even tesla said we are just energy. I don't believe i just look at fact, but even facts are just observation of abductive reasoning and it repeats a lot of times we say it is fact, but again like determinism, before we knew qm, we though everything is predetermined, which stil maybe is. I am terrible at making examples, philosophers only could guess, before we got technology, what i want to say, we are limited by our perception. Same i read over 1 million articles about everything, i don't see a point in doing anything, i am gonna die and everything deletes, even i was successful in something, free will doesn't exists, i did nothing. Same we are living in totalitarianism, corporations controlling everything, chips implants will be mandatory say some sociologist and biologist, i checked that up on mediabiasfact check it is legit. We will be probably controlled like in orwellian dystopian future, privacy already doesn't exists, democracy is illusion. Maybe in 10-20 years if global warming starts irreversible sequence of changes and arise so called hothouse effect, planet will be uninhabitable. Same human race will go extinct in some point, it is completely pointless to do anything....

Even if everything would be indeterministic, that isn't any better. We are just particles, particles have no will. And even if by any chance like 0.01% there would be free will, if you don't know it for sure it is dumb. And from counter arguments to free will from arxiv.org - qm isn't without causation and from one phys forum even radioactive decay happens because there has to be particle in the first place. I read about causal indeterminism, i think if it refers to its stochastic component. But again indeterminism isn't any better, if anything is left to some chance. If i can't prove there is or isn't free will on 100% that's dumb, live in uncertainty. But probably free will is illusion, that's all we have determinism and probabability so fun... Determinism is boring as hell and coinflipping, or rolling dice isn't any better.

Hello, i think even if thanks quantum computers human brains were fully understood and proved there is no such thing as free will, people would still believe whatever they want to. 4/10 people believe than world isn't older than 10k years in murica... https://www.livescience.com/46123-many-americans-creationists.html Btw evolution is fact, it is not even theory... Because everything is predetermined, or coinflippy and it is beneficial for us to believe we have free will for our survival and we also think we have free will from experience in everyday life when we are deciding, so it is hard to believe for people it is illusion, they would probably still believe in free will and 86% are religious and have no brain. I used to know girl with iq 160 which was religious and good in math, problem is, how are people raised e.g. or kept in dark, without information in middle east for example, it doesn't do anything, first iq isn't intelligence and if you are brainwashed from young age. But really believing to something, who someone written in some book, in past, who was druged and had hallucinations, i don't know how old drugs are, or who had delusions, is crazy. I would never believe, guessing is beyond dumb, but sometimes in our life we are forced to guess, if things going down to probability, which is dumb that you are forced to guess, intelligent people are suppose to have lack of prejudice, people are just cope with their mortality by tnt and 1000 more another reasons... It is stupid, if i didn't know about gravity i could believe if i jump from window i don't die, it is stupid guessing, that's it. Either you know something or not and problem with science it is based on axiom of materialism, before we have microscopes and technology to study quantum phenomena, we though about world on macroscopic scale and we though in newtonian era, that everything is predetermined, because we couldn't simply know any better. So everything is essentially guessing, because we are limited by our perception, we can't know anything for sure, even facts established by logic proven to be false like that everything is deterministic by newtonian physics, but in quantum mechanics it is maybe indeterministic. So this is not even good example, because many-worlds. Religion is cancer tho, in 14 countries in middle east and africa they kill you for non-believing, it is for controlling masses and religious people are rich and hording money and it was especially abused in medieval age, still even today it discriminates and devaluates current life and creates dogmas and telling people how to live and it creates social constructs and it helped establishing patriarchy myth. I read about another 100000 things what it does, i just can't remember without context and won't list them of course all. I would put people which are religious to mental institution, because they are having delusions and i would give them books about evolution and psychology and i would give them free trial on lumosty.com and brilliant.org to train their brains and other them diet using nutriogenetics and than i would release them only after testing on polygraph and i would delete every religious text from internet and destroy or religious books, like seriously biscups, or how they calls, abused kids i read on ncbi, because they can't have sex, religion is worse than anything. https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-religion-be-abolished I know 1st countries are secular and promote belief if it isn't malicious to other peoples, they can believe in religion, but it is, religion is worse than almost anything, it does discriminate, promote crimes, racism and whatnot and it goes into politics, where it has nothing to do, church of scientology even infiltrated goverment and do malice against science and harward university student was kicked because had sex before mariage or something. Like you can't even argue about religion is cancer, that's just fact. "Noone is more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free" - Goethe tesla said something than he is automaton, he couldn't even sleep and drink because how he was obssesed with his inventions and when he went for walk into a park and got vision, ye he definitely choosen vision popping in to his mind......... Einstein, stephen hawking, tesla, goethe all didn't believe in free will. Sabine hossenfelder, sean carol, richard dawkins and one prominent physicists all don't believe in free will 40% of genes determine personality and our behaviour is affected by external factors, even smell can change our beliefs, gut bacteria promotes what to eat, we already proven than everything is determined on macro level... There would have to be some crazy twist like, suddenly all changes and you wake up and this was just simulation in universe where free will exists. Like you see everything is predetermined, there is no such thing as free will. How do you want overcome genes and environment, which both you didn't choose. Problem is if i am not, i can't choose, so something must be given to me, before i can choose, so i don't have free will. Even if atoms had souls and it would be some external force than your body, it works how it works, there is no proof that something external affects you in present and there is increasing evidence how genes determine our choices, but environment matter even more, which you didn't choose either. It would have to affect your genes from past, so even they are souls, everything would be predetermined stil. If perhaps new genes popped out of blue sky to your body than maybe there would be some ridiculous twist, than everything is cause by souls or what ever, but they don't you have what you have from past and that's it. Like this: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/apr/27/success-isnt-free-will-luck-determines-everything-oliver-burkeman Ye and btw scientist gets nobel prizes, how they can feel content, they did nothing, just borned superior and than better luck on environment, emotions are just evolutionary mechanism for survival, there are no ultimate moral standards, moral standards stems from emotions and are just human construct. Everything just is, pleasure or pain is just illusion. And even evolution has no goal, just some lifeform adapted to its area and these who didn't procreate didn't survive, they is proof of evolutionary suicide when genes go awry, but we are motivated for survival for sure, not that it would be our goal, but it just emerged and developed like this. So fun, when i achieve something i feel nothing, because i did nothing, i am just automaton and emergence of 100 billions neurons in my brain, i don't even exists i am stardust, tesla already proven we are just energy, life doesn't exists, because something is moving does that mean it is alive, even atoms in rock are constantly moving, does that mean it is alive, we are no different than rock atoms are indistinguishable from each other, even we emerged, it is stil matter of permutations, that rock could have been you, this is so dumb, absurd and stupid, i don't even.

Yet you could get outside worlds boundaries, but it could be still a simulation or not the ultimate reality. My opinion is, that it is utterly pointless to ask whether we are, or not in simulation. Because you could never know. What if you found bugs and they would just delete your memories or something. What if bugs was not because we live in simulation, but how actual reality is. Like some artifact, like you could pass through wall, if you were lucky enough - like 1:quantilition or more. It would seem like a bugg: "wait what i just passed the wall, what is going on ?" - you would be telling yourself, if you didn't know about quantum tunneling... Or even at microscopic scale, if you didn't know about that, it could seem like bug i guess, this may not be best example, i am terrible at presenting examples. What if there are some boundaries you can't cross, we probably die in this gallaxy, because of inflation, but it may not be true, roger penrose is making some theory, kinda like eternal return and doesn't like inflation: link. Ye in essence everything is based on guess, what if solipsism is true, or biocentrism was true, because it is unfalsifiable, you can't know anything for sure, what if last thursdayism is true ? Okay... Science is based on axiom of materialism, that this is ultimate reality, we can observe - thanks to causality and physical laws. If same results are repeating enough times, we say it is fact, but it showed faulty, for example physical laws are deterministic and irreversible - so you may say everything is predetermined, but it is not true - due to incomplete information and axiom that your information, on which is based your logic, is valid. But in quantum world everything is not predetermined. But you couldn't know that yet in times of newton, they didn't have tech, like philosophers contemplating about love, didn't have mri and biology and couldn't know how it works - for example But it doesn't mean we ever will know how it is, as we gain more knowledge and it doesn't mean it is even possible to know more about nature of this world than is set, we can go extinct for example. I don't like much abductive reasoning, but logic isn't any better, again based on some axiom. I came into existence after 15 bilions years and what do we know if big bang is actually beginning of universe, because of singularity, there are alternative theories. I mean we are so negligible and to young, knowledge takes time and we don't affect almost anything and given determinism, or randomness on quantum level, free will is probably just an illusion, we are just slaves. Do you agree that it is pointless to even ask whether we are in simulation, or no ? That was my point from the start. I ask, because it seems funny to me - like some scientists from computer science making arguments about computer simulation with relation to quantum mechanics, without knowledge about physics. Than elon musk says something, that it is 1:bilion against us, that we aren't in computer simulation. He isn't probably engaging in simulation argument 24/7 and i don't know if he has phd from physics, quantum mechanics and computer science at the same time :DDDD, because it is probably not question of one field solely and he has business to run and he is overconfident, he says stuff sometimes, which has no clue about. But isn't all of that just random guessing ? Like give me proof right now, it is not entirely guessing game to postulate, that we live, or not it simulation and than even hypothetically we may someday know,(note not necessarily in a computer simulation). If you can't than i guess it is just guessing. That's why it seems so hilarious to me: chasing unanswerable question, it is sorta like absurdism, even posting this is question absurd, i am expecting to get answer, which is unanswerable, but i guess i am determined to do so But what if, i am not sure. Like if is true, we can never know, because it is perfect, or they will just delete our memories, than i guess i have my answer and this is already guess. But i already put so much effort to this post i don't want to delete. So i would rather i ask, do you agree, that everything is blatant guessing, whether we can't disprove, dualism, solipsism and such things ? Like everything seems so dumb to me, it is just predetermined and random and yet free will seems real, like a time, but it is just illusion and even guessing is illusion, because it is predetermined, i don't even...

Elon musk was saying something, that we are living in computer simulation in 2016, than there were some counter arguments and i read some article from 2017, that current scientific knowledge and studies disputed it. I mean if we lived in computer simulation how we could ever know ? Why it would have to be computer simulation in the first place ? What if someone in laboratory was poking in your brain and what you are experiencing isn't even real. Even bill nye said, it would be to complex to detect. I think if we live in some sorf of simulation, there is no way for us to detect it, unless our creators allowed it, or made some mistakes. It is like software on computer, can never know how computer works. Like does it make even sense to ask this question, how we could ever know ?

Hello, i am curious, are there any physicists, which would agree with compatibilism, i found only and mostly philosophers, or neurologists, which support compatibilism. In physics seems most favorable is indeterminism, because it is first condition for free will and because determinism cannot be tested and what cannot be tested is pointless to even do, you could stop doing experiments right here, because which experiment you choose to do and what varables you will set is already determined. Most of physicists deny free will completely, or at least they are incompabilists, or can yet support indeterminism. I personaly don't think compatibilism allows for free will to exist in any meanigfull way. And second, i can't find almost any living physicists, or quantum physicists, i tried google living quantum physicists and it found list on wiki, in which 90% are dead. I tried google them using like 20 phrases and found only couple. Can you link me most prominent living, physicists please ? I am especially interested in those who engage in free will, or at least expressed themsevels about free will.

Are there any updates on two stage cogito model from martin heisenberg from 2009 ? Surprisingly i can't find anything. I am stil skeptical, that this prove free will in any meaninful way. That bacteria doesn't react only upon external stimuli doesn't suprise me, humans too doesn't only react to external stimuli, but have some itnernal mechanism too by which decide. If superdeterminism was true, everything is determined, but because of complexity is it hard to prove, there is no free will certainly, so we have nothing to do, i hate this, scientist abandom this and prefer indetederministic approach, only beucase indeterministic is viable for making experiments. Only sabine hossefender and g t'hoft and tim maudlin is engaging in superdeterminism. NEXT VIEW IS LIKE PARTIALLY DETERMINISM AND HALF INDETERMINISM: Even given macrocropic level is stable long time and succumb to physical laws, it has been proven that quantum indeterministic phenomena affect even macrolevel, like chemicals in birds and enzymes in horses, even quantum phenomena has little effect relatively, it is so complex what do i know, one small random occurence can make all difference, for example flowers woudn't exist - i read photon goes everywhere, but encoutering plant makes it collapse, hmm if you think about it, it doesn't sound random at all, if i use analogy of destiny, life is a journey, but you end up at one destined place, particle can literally be everywhere, but encoutering plant makes it collapse, wow what a coincidence(i mean that ironically). And birds woudn't know where to fly, i don't know if it plays any meaninful role in free will, it can be difference between life and death for birds, existence or non-existence for existence of complex life. But if it can play role in human mind, i don't know if there is proof, of quantum phenomena in human mind, for example quantum tunneling, if it can play some role, i read quantum mind is speculative at this point. So back to cognito model: even that was true - you generate randomly some options and than decide to think again, we already know that 35% of personality is determined by genes and iq up to 90%.Or people became murderes, after developing a brain tumor. So even if you have free will, it is very limited and based on luck, with which genes you borned and environment and i woudn't call that even free will at this point. But i stil want know more about cogito model, can't find anything and that it is from 2009 and i cannot find updates doesn't make me optimistical about it..Generally there are not much articles on free will, like on prominent site as sciencedaily.com Maybe because it is almost pointless to solve at this point, make quantum computer easy peasy Me personally i don't even thing it is necessary to wait til quantum computers, i don't belive in free will at all, after read over 500k to much things, theories and facts. Thing is like if qunatum particles was sub-system of some system and that somehow determined our behaviour, hm it seems like wishful thinking and absurd. We already know that genes and enviroment even more determine a lot, i read also to much articles on prominent site psychologytoday.com After what i read i belive 0% in free will... Before i was born i coudn't choose my preferences, because i was nothing, not nothing, but not yet formed more precisely and for example that genes determine 35% personality, is already hard proof, that at least partially your choice is determined, don't you agree ? And yet i can't prepare for everything, i can't look around 360 degree on street around myself all time, or prepare for meteorits, or for all kind of viruses resiliant against antibiotics. And at some point humanity ceases to exists and so the universe, i mean big freeze, even that is theory, still, like i said for example that perfectly normal people became murders after a getting brain tumor, ye they had certainly 100% choice..., more likely 0%. That is not random coincidence.

External agent with free will, like souls ?, i know it can be anything like magnitude of things, i.e. gravitation affect macroscopic things and we don't undestand how gravitaions is formed, seems to good to be truth for me tho. There is no proof of soul existence. And particles are just particles, they have no will as sabine hosselander said, of course it can be just system of an external agent which would have will theoretically, which sound stupid to me: like bio centrism. Can it be even be discovered and proven, if we are just encapsulated in some sandbox. People die of terrible deaths by murder or accidents, or during birth delivery, or brain tumor, which made people pedophiles and murderes, if there was some external agent with free will, why would it make someone to get brain tumor, what would be reason for that, who deserved to die at age 2 innocent for example, souls are just ridiculous, it seens like determined, or coinflipp. What do you mean by just as we place our order ?

It is exactly like you said: We could even venture that this is compatible with free will since we have a free choice of everything on offer.We could also venture that it is deterministic that we will not buy say tea or brown bread ice cream, neither of which are on offer. Maybe you are free to decide, but fact is a lot is still determined by genes and environment, which is already pretty grim and unfair and i don't see a point. How i can feel contentment, when i achieve something, so i borned superior to someone else, coinflipp... Some people die in fire for example, you can't prepare for everything, so that is already random.