Alter2Ego

MSC: The "meat" of your argument actually provided support for the need of an Intelligent Designer. You should have stayed away from the argument about the complexity of the eye. Then to shoot yourself in the foot further, you used the watchmaker argument. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

exchemist: I am quoting scripture from Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, for the benefit of people following in this thread who happen to believe in the Bible. You don't qualify as a Bible believer, obviously, so don't flatter yourself into thinking I was quoting scripture for people who insist in believing in Darwin's macroevolution myth. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18 Bufofrog: Earth alone is conducive to life; it is not a "lucky fluke." That's the way Almighty God intended it to be. "As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, But the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16) The other planets serve various purposes as part of our fine-tuned universe. Some of them support life on earth by protecting earth itself. Scientific evidence proves that. Alter2Ego _________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

MSC: If anything, your OP actually supports the argument that there had to have been an Intelligent Designer aka Almighty God Jehovah. One of the worst examples you could have used to argue against a supernatural Intelligent Designer/God is the complexity of the eye. As stated by sources: "The human eye is brilliantly complicated, made up of a superb, interconnected system of approximately 40 individual subsystems. . . . There are approximately six to seven million cone cells. All of them are concentrated near the macula, the oval-shaped pigmented area in the centre of the retina. Additionally, there are three varieties of cone cells that are sensitive to different colours of light. Between them, they span the visual range of wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum (400–700 nm)" https://creation.com/complex-human-eye But, hark! Let's not forget about the even more complicated creation, the brain, which plays an important role along with the eye to produce vision: "After an image reaches the optic nerve, it travels along it to the visual cortex in the occipital lobe at the back of the brain. Using our eyes takes an incredible amount of brainpower. 20% of the brain is dedicated to visual processing, but it takes another 40% to help with vision in connection to meaning, motor functions, touch, and attention. Many times a second, the brain absorbs and processes a new set of visual data, and that’s how we perceive, understand, and react to motion." https://visionsource-opticalperspectives.com/2023/05/03/what-do-you-know-about-your-eyes-anatomy/ Now, if you want to claim that all of that happened at random/by itself, without the intervention of an intelligent being to guide the outcome, resulting in vision, suit yourself. In fact, you made it clear in the last paragraph of your OP that it is simply about your personal denials and the fact you don't want to accept the reality of a supernatural Intelligent Designer. You stated at line 1 of your final paragraph. "The Teleological argument has just never sat right with me." That's right. It's all about you and your personal philosophy. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Dimreepr: Dawkins is wrong because his entire premise: "God, almost certainly does not exist," because it's "a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence" is wrong. Evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Designer aka Jehovah God is revealed in the creations around us and our fine-tuned universe. Dawkins has not presented any "strong contradictory evidence" that says otherwise. He is simply spouting his personal philosophy. "For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20) Alter2Ego

DaniWhite: You seem to have disappeared from the forum. That said, perhaps you will return and provide a credible explanation for how, after the supposed big bang, "...the universe develops itself and leads to life on earth." Do elaborate on how our fine-tuned universe could possibly be the result of undirected events. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

DrmDoc: Your comments, which I have bolded in blue, give the impression that "non-believers" aka atheists do not have faith and therefore are not religious. The reality is that atheist have far more faith than theists. A further reality is that atheists are as religious as theists. As for your comments, which I bolded in red, where you explain that, to quote you: "faith is a shield believers use against life's doubts, insecurities, and traumas," that's interesting. Particularly since atheists routinely use their faith as a means of coping with life's doubts, insecurities, and traumas. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

ALine: Humans were created with the desire to worship. All humans belong to some form of religion, whether they care to admit it or not. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

PaulP: Mathematics is one of the ways of proving the existence of Almighty God Jehovah. Another convincing means is the scientific method. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Aidanbuk: Your speculation, which I bolded, is on point. According to Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, God is eternal. In other words, he has no beginning and no end. Notice the verse of scripture below: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2 -- King James Version) Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18