Kafei

No, it was closed because the MODs who were just being introduced to this research hadn't readily comprehended it just like you. If it's closed, like I said, will only reveal the biases that are operative among the forum.

I'm not making the claim. Again, that'd be the professionals involved in this research. I'm merely reiterating precisely the evidence which has been demonstrated by the science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV3a2G9GS_E#t=11m47s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT_WjwbSwPU#t=13m48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UF5l7wxN-k&t=53m52s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsgKUglCI7g#t=7m13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWvIp9XtUc#t=8m17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bu3q3GMHfE#t=34m36s www.atpweb.org/jtparchive/trps-41-02-139.pdf https://files.csp.org/Psilocybin/Barrett2017Phenomenology.pdf

That's not my claim. That'd be the professionals involved in the research. You've obviously overlooked this fact. I am not lying, but I've been accused of deceit by many atheists who've not been able to come to terms with this research. It's quite common, in fact.

I maintain I've not misrepresented this research. If you believe that's so, then please, point out specifically what I've misconstrued. I truly doubt you can. Why? Because I'm merely reiterating precisely what's been demonstrated by the research. This is simply the biased atheist narrative you tell yourself to deny the actual scientific evidence which has been demonstrated. Did what? Attempt to save face in light of the scientific evidence?

If people are having actual experiences of the divine, then what's the problem? What's your disagreement? Schizophrenia is not mystical experience. How is this relevant? Then, you've contradicted yourself. If people experience the actual divine, then you say it doesn't give the divine an objective reality, then you've contradicted yourself, and you've failed to comprehend how the divine is defined within the context of this research. Really? Care to point to some evidence? I have evidence for my case. I've not lied. I've been as honest as possible in regards to my responses here in this thread. Of course, I maintain this is scientific evidence for God. The best that humanity has produced. I never said that. No, you're creating a straw man. To the very contrary, I've explained quite otherwise.

The only person projecting a bias or conspiracy is yourself. I've not even spoken on these topics relative to what I've presented, I've only cited the research which has been established. If you really believe that to be true, be specific. What precisely do you think I'm misinterpreting? I really doubt you can point that out. Why? Because I'm not saying anything other than what has been demonstrated by the research. Yet no one is able to specifically point out what these supposed "misinterpretations" are, and that's 'cause I have no misinterpretation.

What you don't seem to grasp is I'm not espousing personal beliefs, but rather reiterating precisely what has been demonstrated by the science that's been done.

Your antics are common amongst them. If you're not an atheist, you certainly act like one. That doesn't make sense. If people are experiencing the actual divine, and you deny that people are actually having experiences of the divine, then you've contradicted yourself, and you miserably failed to recognize a point which Joe Rogan has emphasized in many podcasts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ1Dm-dcl68#t=50m38s

They've addressed me through PMs. Okay, but you can't throw in the term "divine" and maintain your atheism. That's my point. No, this is just another biased atheist reaction. What I've presented is legitimate science despite the atheist's opinion on these matters such as what you've expressed in your above post. I'm disagreeing with you for a reason and that is because I'm representing legitimate science that's been established relative to these topics. If a MOD puts this thread to an end, it's not because this is pseudoscientific or their criticism is valid, it'll be more likely because they've misconstrued the research and so it speaks more to the biases that are prevalent throughout this forum. Not no forum. Visit dmt-nexus.me/forum or erowid.com, and you'll find this is common knowledge. I have no agenda. I'm merely redirecting people's attention to the established scientific research. You go do that, and find out the hard way that I've been telling you the truth all along.

Again, as I emphasized before, if MODs shut down the thread, it's not a criticism of the science I present or what I've said here in the thread, but rather more a comment on the biases of this entire forum. I never mentioned anything about conspiracy. Again, I'm merely redirecting people's attention to the science that's been done, and I'm accurately portraying it as opposed to your effort thus far. Likewise, disagree all you'd like, but when you do your so-called questioning, you're in for a rude awakening. To the contrary, the modern science supports the Perennial philosophy, it doesn't consider it "inconclusive." No, you're actually creating more misinterpretations. You're doing a disservice to the science that's been done.

@beecee Why do you keep posting out-dated articles? You must be getting really desperate. You do realize that all the contentions made against the Perennial philosophy have been utterly refuted by the more modern research I've cited, and which I've made many attempts to emphasize for you? Apparently not.

What you can't seem to grasp is I'm not being pretentious, I'm merely reiterating the science of which has been established over decades. It's merely your emotional attachment to atheism that you must respond in such manner. Yeah, because I'm dealing with biased and close-minded atheist such like yourself. Jordan Peterson has commented on this, that the atheist cannot fathom that there is science out there that undermines their position by virtue of the fact that they've years of emotional investment and prolonged identification as an atheist to the point where it actually impedes them from properly understanding the science that's been done relative to these topics. This is rather the cynical point-of-view simply detracting what our modern science has established as a "complete" mystical experience as mere hallucination when absolutely no professional in this research defines it in such away. This is just more evidence of your atheist biases to interpret such things in this fashion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ1Dm-dcl68#t=50m38s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51PK6Hvaddg#t=1h30m08s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwkDgyIuao#t=23m04s I disagree. As far as I can discern, more and more people are awakening to this research. Again, if you actually refer to the research, the implications are much greater than than your myopic summation. This comment is simply further evidence that you've not understood the research. The Perennial philosophy is not necessarily a philosophy, per se, but rather a perspective on the major religions which is, indeed, congruent with our modern science. I disagree. As I've said, more and more people are awakening to this research, and it is, indeed, our best scientific evidence for the existence of God. Just because you feel it's not spreading fast enough, doesn't make the established research false. It's spreading right now in this very forum and myriads of places across the globe. To the contrary, no matter how much you naysay the science, your criticism won't be true. As I've emphasized, this is established scientific research, and your attempt to criticize it is merely your own ego attempting to maintain the delusion of your atheism.

[1] I never said there's a conspiracy, it's more accurately that the MODs haven't understood the research and perhaps are just being introduced to it. [2] It's not that the science is holding this research back, it has been in the media, and while many people are, indeed, waking up to this stuff, it's definitely not readily understood upon being introduced to this scientific research as it has a very rich history initiating with the work of William James, and many people are ignorant to A.) what is a mystical experience, and B.) historical views on the major religions such as the Perennial philosophy. [3] Mystical experience is evidence for the Perennial philosophy which is a view that sees mystical experience a glimpse into the universal divine source which underlies all the major religions. [4] Yes, like I said many people are just being introduced to this research like yourself, and so they might assume it's about a philosophy because they see the word "philosophy" within the title of "Perennial philosophy," but it's not necessarily a philosophy, per se. It's more accurately a perspective on the major religions of which is aligned with our modern science. The view on the major religions referred to as the Perennial philosophy is also known as Perennial wisdom or Perennialism. I've already pointed out that it's simply your atheistic biased proclivities that prevent you from recognizing that I've already answered your request. Your atheistic bias is evidenced by the fact that you have pre-scripted insults that you probably sprinkle throughout all these threads, terms like "God botherers" or "religious fanatics." What you don't realize is I was actually an agnostic prior to learning about this research, I never adhered to any religion in my entire life, and I've no issue now referring myself as Perennialist, because that was, indeed, the core finding of the research, that the mystical experience is the very evidence for the Perennial philosophy. And by the way, you never highlighted any claims that contradict this research, you simply highlighted a comment from an article out-dated 2009 which is not representative of what the more recent research has established of which I linked to throughout the thread.

Yeah, perhaps if you tried reading those texts, you'd realize I've already offered what you've requested. I'm not mind-boggled by any of this, but you surely seem so. Just a quick typer, so I'll take it as a compliment.

I've attempted to show you a few times by now. You've not shown any signs of comprehending the research. Rather, you've simply displayed biased atheistic tendencies which actually prevent you from grasping the research.

Trust me, you wouldn't be able to have sex, let alone walk during one of these experiences. And I did say I had a "complete" mystical experience which is definitely not described in the fashion you've displayed above. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwkDgyIuao#t=23m04s That's not my misinterpretation. That's literally what these researchers are claiming. For some reason, you have trouble accepting this fact.

Well, I attempted to explain for you, but it's quite you're going to continue to ignore the fact that this science has demonstrated the existence of God probably for the rest of your life. Only I am speaking of scientifically based claims, you simply reject them out of your biased atheistic proclivity. At this point, it's rather obviously so. I'm perfectly calm, and I've actually had a "complete" mystical experience myself. It's quite a beneficial experience, and I never experience anxiety or anything you're suggesting, and it's partly due to the fact that I've had this experience. The science has even shown of the volunteers that they invariably come out more open-minded, more calm, more patient, more open to express their emotions, etc.

You do realize that Albert Einstein expressed a Perennialist view? Einstein was a theist, make no mistake. The science actually confirmed what Einstein already knew in the first place. Einstein himself admitted to having a mystical experience. https://www.sociology.org/did-you-know-mysticism-and-religious-experience/

What mythical beliefs and what religious beliefs? You do realize I adhere to the science that's been done and have no issue at all referring to myself as a Perennialist, as an adherent of the Perennial philosophy. After all, that was the core finding of the scientific research. The only ranting and raving I see here is coming from you. It's quite clear that you're so far emotionally invested in your atheism that you cannot even fathom that there's actually science out there that undermines your atheist stance.

Yeah, that's a complete mischaracterization of the research as the implications were far greater than simply that as I've explained above in my post to beecee. I'll continue to accurately represent the science. If the MODs decide to shut the thread down, that's not a criticism to the science or what I've laid out there. That rather speaks more to the biases that go on here, and the very proof of this fact is the amount of downvotes my posts are accumulating. Keep 'em coming. It's quite clear there's a large amount of atheists that attend these threads that obviously cannot come to terms with this research.

I've already explained that it's not expressed so crassly. No professional would reveal in a peer-reviewed article, "Science has demonstrated the existence of God." I don't know why atheists think it would be displayed so ambiguously and unsophisticated. Instead, they say that the mystical experience is evidence of the Perennial philosophy, that the universal mystical state of consciousness is the glimpse of the divine in each of the major religions. To quote a professional on this research: "This mystical consciousness we've come to, at least, I would argue that it's evidence of the so-called Perennial philosophy. In each of the great world's religions, there's a word that points to it. You know, samadhi in Hinduism, nirvana in Buddhism, sekhel mufla in Judaism, Theoria or the the Beatific vision in Christianity, wu wei in Taoism, baqá wa faná in Islam, The One in Neoplatonism, it is the Gnosis of the Gnostics and so on. It just seems to be something that's intrinsic to the human organism, and it can be facilitated in many different ways. Not everyone has to take psychedelics drugs, and actually there are many people who take psychedelics and don't have this experience, but it happens in some wonderful meditative states, it happens in sensory isolation and sensory flooding, sometimes it happens in natural childbirth. We guys can't explore that option. Sometimes it happens in midst of creative performance or athletic heights as in the runner's high, but it's just there, and some people would say that it comes purely as a gift of grace, you know, some people just wake up in the middle of the night and POOF! There it is. And it's so profound in its many variance. I like to distinguish between the visionary states of consciousness where there's an ego, you're everyday personality kind of looking, beholding, relating to something that is incredibly inspiring, but it's within the subject-object dichotomy. Then there's the unitive mystical consciousness where the ego or everyday personality seems to die, and immersed in this unitive state, sort of like the Hindu drop of water merging with the ocean, and then the rebirth of the ego afterwards. I would define that as the 'complete' mystical consciousness." - Dr. William (Bill) A. Richards "A mediating mechanism (psychological or otherwise) for a transformative perceptual shift after an introvertive mystical experience is that the individual now knows that a portal to something of inestimable and ultimate value resides within -- an access point to a sense of the transcendent, which is variously described in religious traditions as Soul, Holy Spirit, God, Brahman, or Buddha Nature." - Dr. Roland R. Griffiths https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsgKUglCI7g#t=7m13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWvIp9XtUc#t=8m17s https://files.csp.org/Psilocybin/Barrett2017Phenomenology.pdf I'm not saying it's evidence for God, that'd be the professionals involved in this research. To the contrary, you will find evidence for God, and it's more likely that your mind won't change as it's become quite clear that you're far too emotionally invested in your atheism to even fathom that there's science out there that undermines it. Again, this is established science and it's evidence for not necessarily what I claim, I'm not making any claims of my own. It's evidence for what these researchers are claiming. Well, I have no doubt that you'll continue to ignore the links in order to maintain your atheist delusion.

I've been following this research for decades, I'm not calling out conspiracies or anything like that, I mentioned a phenomenon that Jordan Peterson had spoken on, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a conspiracy. I was merely pointed out that many atheists (I realize you're agnostic) have these type of misconceptions about the divine which completely deny how God is defined within the context of the Perennial philosophy which is congruent with the findings of the research. I've time-stamped the lecture below where this is explained by Dr. Bill Richards, a professional involved in this research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsgKUglCI7g#t=7m13s

Is this your go-to narrative throughout these threads? All I've done is merely reiterate precisely what's been demonstrated by the research. What you can't seem quite to grasp is that I'm not saying anything other than what has been demonstrated by the science that's been done. Yes, it will continue to stand. This is scientific research and as it continues to build, I believe it will continue to shed more light on these type of experiences for which religion has alluded to for millennia. Again, I don't know how many times I have to emphasize this point, but these aren't simply "YouTube links," these are lectures given by actual professionals who perform actual science relative to these topics. These professionals are speaking on the very science of which I've cited. These studies have been peer-reviewed and published in The Scientific Journal of Psychopharmacology, and I have posted the links to the peer-reviewed material, by the way.

Yeah, and I told him I would participate in the forums as a favor, but I also pointed out to him that this is a toxic environment filled with close-minded individuals who'd rather find ways to contort and deny the science, rather than to accept what the science has demonstrated. Perhaps this is simply the phenomenon that Jordan Peterson has recognized about atheists who are so emotionally invested in their atheism, that when they intuit anything that contradicts their stance, they react with a gut-level disgust which drives their mental gymnastics and causes them to deny or even contort the evidence being presented the suit their atheist agenda.

The research I've referenced is in no way pseudoscientific. Jordan Peterson noted on this phenomenon within atheists, that atheists are so emotionally-invested in their atheism, that they're actually blinded by it and would fail to recognize evidence if it was presented them, even deny it and contort as you've done here. This is actually a very good example which perfectly illuminates the sort of motivations behind some of the atheists here. Intentionally or perhaps subconsciously reject or even contort evidence to the contrary with a gut level disgust that drives their mental gymnastics or any actual psychological terminology for their motivated reasoning.