László Hajós

No we do not agree that it has flaws, I told you already many times that the space as a 1D line can not be a real 3D world, only a representation of the volumes (cm^3 or m^3 or km^3) as lenght of line in 1D 1cm=1cm^3 as volume in 3D. 1D and 2D are different than 3D. Only the 3D can represent 1 to 1exactly our 3D (+time +extra 3D) world. The blue color lenght of the line is only correct at the 1D line. The distance is the REPRESENTATION of the VOLUME in 3D. I have alredy wrote this down above in the last post. At the circle I have wrote down that the total AREA of the outer circle is the same. AREA means it would be like cm squared. The blue color what you wrote there are NOT the distances between the points. The AREA of the outer circle is 2 il all cases, so the distances change between AB and BC. The distances are the biggest at the big bang, smaller at expansion after the big bang and the smallest at the maximum size of universe before the big bang. The AREA of the inner circle changes: 1 cm squeared at maximum size, 0 cm^2 at big bang and at expansion 0.5 cm^2 (it will grow ftom 0 cm^2 until 1cm ^2) Total areas (universe + void) are: 3 cm^2 at the maximum size, 2 cm^2 at the big bang and 2,5 cm^2 at the expansion. The total are of the universe + void grows from 2 cm^2 until 3 cm^2 The diameter of the woid is NOT 2. At the line it is NOT a diameter as it is 1 dimensional line. The length of the line is the representation of a 3 fimensional amount volume in 3D. And at the 2D circle they are AREAS and not diameter and the area is the representation of the amount of volume in 3D. No that is not 100% true. It is different than the physycal volumes and distances present at any time, but it changes the geometry at any time. Example: The extra dimension is -y at masses as gravity. Effect: the massless light travelling trought is distorted, and the force of gravity between objects. The extra dimension is +y at dark energy. Effect: expanding space, the volume and distances get bigger and the light is redshifted trough expansion. I will only talk about our 3 dimensional world in here: (-y and +y are the forces values in the extra 3D dimension corresponding to the same point in the 3D space what we see) The physical distance measured in short distances in lokal scale doesn't show the extra 3D dimension only the present 3D which we are in and distances are the distances what we measure. But in bigger distances the change from the extra 3 dimension can be measured as light goes trough as I mension abowe. At gravity (-y in extra 3D) light is distorted, trough expanding(+y) light is distorted. Forces from the extra 3D can be measured for objects localy as well as gravity (-y). Example: earth has a gravitational pull on us The force from extra 3D as -y is much bigger locally compared to the +y force from extra 3D locally, but where there is less matter and more bigger empty space, the +y forces add up to a big force between big distances I can't. Maybe it is not. Lets call my 7 dimensional model universal relativity, or UR

These numbers above (lenght of 1D straight line, area of 2D flat surface) represent the real volume of space available (what we see in "real "world) without the extra dimonsion. The extra dimension is the total amount of spacetime (which we can not see in real world). The extra dimension in 1D is an other (not straight) line next to the straight line. This 2D world (+ time) in 1D was my mathemathical explanation on wednesday where I called Lad (the extra dimension) (=Lab+Lbc+Lcd) as the lenght of the not straight line. The lenght of Lad or extra dimension was the representation of the total amount of spacetime volume (which is a constant and its always more than the "real world" spacetime which we can see). Peaks(+y) are dark energy, dips(-y) are gravity of masses in Lad. So once again: the volume of the "real world" spacetime is represented by the lenght (or distance) of the straight line between A,B,C, and D (x) in the above drawing In 2D as a surface: the area of the flat surface above in the drawing represents the volume of the "real word" spacetime which we can see. The extra dimension would be an extra 2D surface which wouldn't be flat and the area would be always bigger than the "real world" surface. So in 2D (+time) we have 4D (+time). The dips in the extra dimension would be the gravity of the masses and peaks would be dark energy. The total area (representing volume) of the extra dimension is a constant and is always bigger than the area of the flat surface above. In 3D as volume of the sphere inside in an other sphere would represent the "real world" 3D volume of space (+4th dimension is the time) or what we see. The extra dimension would be also 3D which would be in the "real world" 3D and it would have different "densities". It would be "less dense" at masses as gravity and "more dense" at dark energy as expanding space. Booth "less dense" and "more dense" means more volume as the "real world" volume present at the same spacetime. The total amount of volume of the extra 3D dimension has a constant value and it is bigger at all times than the amount of volume in the "real world" 3D (or in other words the volume of space what we see and experience. So in 3D (+time) the total amount of dimensions would be 3+3=6 (+time)

Your drawings are wrong. Here is mine. (3D ball would be hard to draw, it is the same as a circle, but with volumes instead of areas and the circle is the cross section) Ath the line: Maximum size: AD=3, Big Bang AD=2, Expansion AD=2.5 (2<=AD<=3) AB+CD=2 every time

The "void" is not expanding if "staff" has to be pushed away or not. There would be no spacial change or acceleration if space is a line, the line would be rigid I said that A stayes the same distance from B as a line of points if space would be a line. This is not the result in other diensons as I already explained today Space does't need to be "break apart". If flat as an area, it would be like marbles with the exact density (if there is no gravitation or dark energy in it) therefore the area (or density of marbles) would stay the same. Space as volume would stay the same as a liquid or gas with the same density You want something which is logically and phisically impossible. Once again space as a line and as a flat sheet is not the model of real space, only a representation. This drawing can be made in 2D flat sheet where space is an area, or 3D where space is a volume If I would have to draw space as a line like best representation of a 1 universe world, than I would draw a circle. The points of the circle's circumference would be the points of space. ABCD would be on the circumference. The circumference would get longer only by the BC distance getting longer. Then you can reach D from A. Then after some time the circumference would reach a maximum lenght, and later getting shorter by the big bang and starting to grow again

Probably I didn't or I scrolld through too fast. In a 1 D model you couldnt go through the universe while the universe is expanding more than the speed of light. But this is not a real world model, in real world you could go around ( or even acces the edge of the unierse if the edge is not expanding with the speed of light), altough that lenght of travel would be bigger as well if expansion still goe's on.

Again, if I understand you question correctly: in case I and case II and III if it would be a 2 dimensonal sheet (without the extra dimension + time): case I the universe is a circle with BC diameter. The void surrounds the universe. The area of the "void" is x. Case II BC diameter grows, so area of BC grows. But the area of void has to stay the same, this means that in this 2 dimension as a sheet, AB and CD is smaller than in case I. Only the area of "void" stays the same. In 3 dimensional (+ extra dimension + time) model the same happens put as volumes. The volume of universe grows, but the voulme of "void" stays the same. No, the area of "void" stays the same as I describe above

If I understand your question correctly than: you are asking how can you travel in the void so that you dont go trough the universe if the model space would be 2d sheet (without the extra dimension). In this case BC would be (more or less deformed) circle from an above view (BC distance or X is the diameter if the circle would be perfect). You would have to travel around the circle, X would be minimum half the circle of the universe in case III

I am sorry if I don't made clear enough or I confuse you. I am not a mathematician nor a scientist, I can not explain it as an expert would do and probably I can not answer all questions. It has an x axis, x=distance and points in the space, y axis, y=gravity or dark energy -y is gravity, +y is the dark energy, or the source of the expansion. So this is 2 dimensions + time is the 3rd. A, B, C, D have y=0 value at the big bang. (In a more real model B and C and possibly also A and D would have -y value because of the gravity of the black hole between BC). Dx-Ax= 3 this is the total space time before the big bang and the expansion. The lenght of the line is 13 ly (lenght of the line is all space time) Lad=13 ly. This value stays the same all the time. If it would be in 3 dimensions (+time) than it would mean the total of the area. If it would be in 4 dimension (+time) than it would mean the total of the points in 3D which can be less dense ( at masses as gravity) or denser (in space as dark energy). At the big bang: the line between AB and CD is the same as the distance between them. Lab=Bx-Ax=1 ly, Lcd=Dx-Cx=1 ly. These values stay the same until expansion stops. The lenght of the line between BC is Lbc=11 ly, distance between them shrinks to 0 ly. Cx-Bx=0 ly. The line only has negative y values not only in BC, which is Lbc(y)= -11 ly. But it is the same for the whole system: Lad(y)= -11y ly. The Lbc(y)= -11y ly value is the total energy (or mass) in the black hole. At the big bang this value is realased. In that moment Cx-Bx distance starts to grow from 0 ly but Lbc will stay the same 11 ly. In the first moment Lbc(y) changes from -11y ly to +11 ly,. And Lad(y) would be also +11y ly. Of course Lad=13 ly, Dx-Ax= 2 ly After the big bang: Cx-Bx starts to grow. This is the start of the expansion. Between B and C after some time lots of smaller L-y values appear (mass and gravity of the matter wich is created by energy) and between these L-y values lots of small L+y values remain. These L+y values are energy of the expanding spacetime or L+y=dark energy. Expansion continues until there are no more L+y left, BC will no longer expand. Now only the larger L-y (hypermassive black holes) remain and they can enter AB or CD. When the expansion stops, Dx-Ax distance will be 3 ly again. By this time L-y start to merge in to a new singularity with Lad(y)= -10y ly value. Trough the whole process Lad was always 13 ly but Dx-Ax changes. Edit: If I would count gravity of BC in AB and CD, than Lab and Lcd would be more than 1, example 1.5. In this case Lab(y)= -0.5y ly, Lcd(y)= -0.5y ly. Lad changes from 13 ly to 14 ly and Lad(y) to -11y ly before the big bang and -12y ly at the big bang.

And AD distance is 3 ly

Maybe, you can call it an extra dimension. Okay, this is the last time I will try to explain. We are talking about the same thing again and again. It is not so difficult to undarstand, yet I feel that I unable explain it. In 3D (or 4D with time) universe is an expanding bubble (or whatever shape) of water in a pool of water. In 1(or2)D, as a line: lets suppose there is only 1 galaxy (BC) and void next to it but you can't escape the void. AB and CD distance are the void and are 1 ly long. They are not expanding, always 1 ly. Distance between BC, the edges of the universe is 1ly before the big bang: this is the event hotizon, but the line is hanging down (mass) pointing to the singilarity (I am not counting the extra gravity which would make the line longer between AB and CD). This means that the line is much longer than 1 ly between BC, lets say its 10 ly. So the lenght of the whole line is: AB(1) + BC(1+10) + CD(1) = 13. Before the big bang the line could be pulled down more so BC distance gets 0. When the big bang happens, the line between BC "bounces up" releasing its energy and BC distance will start to grow. In the beginning the expansion is faster and then slows when mass is created. AB and CD distances stay the same all the way and also the lenght of the line (13) stays the same. Only distance between BC will grow. After some time between BC the line has more "peaks" (dark energy) and "dips" (mass) pushing BC more and more apart until all the "peaks" straighten. When all the peaks dissapear BC distance will be X. X would be 11 if there would be no mass left and the distance AD would be 13, the lenght of the whole line. But in reality there would be dips in BC, which would be the masses of the black holes which could at this point enter AB and BC because there is no more expansion between mass in BC. After this all the mass and energy would merge again into a singularity, repeating the big bang, which would be in a random point between AD. Distances change between BC but the line has to be always 13 ly long. The points of this line would represent points in real world 4D space time as a " liquid" of points, not a cross section of the real world

I cant expain it to you by math at the moment (would be nice if smoeone more clever than me would help me in this), only by words and simple math like before. I use the words "density" or "antigravity" only for explenation reason. The less "dense" spacetime where there is a mass, you can feel and see the forces of the gravity. These are the dips on a 1D line, or less "dense" liquid in 3D. In 1D example a black hole has 1 mass, this is 1 cm deep dip on the 1D line. Where there is "dense" spacetime or "antigravity" how I called it before, there is a 1 cm peak. This 1 cm peak is slowly getting smaller and "creating" more distance. We can also "feel" and "see" these forces (spacetime expansion, light travels trough slower) but we cant realy examine it (like we cant see directly gravity), it is only an empty space I will try to make simple mathemathic explanation tonight in a few hours if I will have enough time

I used the word "density" so that is simpler to understand. Thats why I used " ". Nonsense for you, make sense for me.

That is why I used 1 dimensonal lines for simplicty. Only in 1D stays 1ly a 1ly. In 2D is different, and 3 D is different. Spacetime "density". We can see it where there is "less dense" by masses (light distortion). But in empty space where the empty space is "more" empty space, or "denser" empty space, we can not see it (dark energy). More empty space is still an empty space.

I have tried to make it more simple in my drawings using 1D line. Now I see what is the confusion. Your drawing is 2D but the change in the second picture is like it would be 1D. If lines AD and DF stay paralell as you said (and AD EF paralell) than EF is 6 ly, but that wouldn't be the real world result in 2D and the new E and F and A and D points (on the 2nd picture) are not the same points of space as in the first picture. The results are the easyest to explain in a 1D line. The lenght of the line (space-time) will always stay the same. Masses "pull" it down (dips) and the peaks (dark energy, "denser" empty space) "pull" it up. In 2D this is much more complex. In 2D it would behave like example a points of rubber witch can change position but always stay the same dense and flat with no mass or no dark energy. Dips and peaks are the same but in 2D. In 3D is the most complex, space time would be like a liquid. Where there is no mass or dark energy (like in the "void") there the space would be exactly the same density. Where is a mass, example a black hole, the spacetime is "pulled in" and the liquid is not so dense around the mass. Where there are peaks (dark energy) there the empty space is "denser". The denser space time is the result of the big bang, and only exist in the universe, not in the "void". And it is slowly getting less dense creating more distance and the result of this is the expansion. The line (space time) is not straight. The distance is not the same as all spece in that distance. When you would pull the line it would stay the same lenght (with less peaks) but the distance would grow The area closer to the edge means the surfice of the universe (or sphere if it would be). As I said distance between masses closer to the edge could grow by: 1 spacetime expansion + gravitational pull from an external mass By local scale I meant example universes. In the universe distances grow, "more" space is "created". By global scale if I would examine example 10^7 universes and the space between them than the sum of spacetime would stay the same at all times as the sum of energy (or mass) would stay the same Yes thats correct, spacetime stays the same "dense" between universes. The "density" of space time changes only in expanding universes (growing) and only by the results of big bangs (shortening) the two cancel eachother. One adds negative, the other positive, sum of the change is 0. This is global scale. In local scale space time can get shorter by example a black hole growing and changing position but in this case the sum of "density" doesn't change. Example: black hole eats a star. Black hole was 1000, star was 1. Now there is 1001 where the black hole position is. So sum it up again: Rule: there is an exact amount of infinite energy which can not be created nor destroyed, in an exact amount of infinite space which can not be created nor destroyed.

I agree, and probably we will never have any direct evidence of an other universe. We are relatively safe in ours, but trapped. 5 ly becomes 6 ly the same way as the space expands in our universe. The line in BC is not straight and can be streched. You are talking about acceleration of stuff which needs to be moved. There is no acceleration of staff, the same way as there is no acceleration of staff in our universe. And stuff, or mass doesn'tt need to be moved, it stayes in the same position, only the "denser" (peaks in straight line) space streightens between ordinary matter, "creating" more space (the remaining "force" or energy from the big bang, peaks in the drawing I made) If I count the distance between AD, it grows from 5 ly to 6 ly. But if I would measure the line with all the dips and peaks, I would get the same result in booth pictures. Thats why space (sean and not seen) can not be destroyed or created, only distance grows in expansion, not space, space was always there. In other words I could say that in the expansion of our universe the more "dense" space gets less "dense" creating more distance. This "density" comes from the big bang and in my prediction globaly it should be true that the space is more "dense" where is less ordinary matter (example between galaxies, and even more between galaxy clusters)

I am not saying that it is very different. And also I would say that in an other universe with the same age as ours would be very mutch like what we observe. But still, what we observe is not tottaly homogenous even in the largest scale. The answer is very simple, 6 (if we think about it as straight lines as space)

I accept your view. Let's agree that we disagree in this.

There would be no acceleration measured. It is the same like our universe expands faster than speed of light. We on earth right now expanding more than the speed of light away from an other far away point in our universe but we dont feel any acceleration. You could imagine as follows: if only these two universes and the space between them would exist in the whole world. The line between the universes is in the middle. The line will not move, only X universe growing (from our point of view the closest edge will stay in place and every furthest point in the universe would accelerate faster and faster. The same would we see on the other side in the other universe

I call it force. Or I can call it spacetime peak, or hill. Does't matter what is it called., it is there. It is your right to accept what you think as correct, I wont try to change that. I see you don't understand what I mean. Space outside of the universe wont expand it will be "pushed away" by the expanding universe. Again, the easyest is to imagine it in a line. A is a point in the void, B is one edge of the universe, C is the other edge. AB is example 5 ly. AB is a solid straight line. BC distance is 1 ly first, the line between BC is not straight and not solid. It has dips and peaks. The total of the dips will always stay the same (energy or mass) but the peaks slowly push down straightening. BC grows to 2 ly, and pushes AB solid line away The centre would be exacly there where the ballon was compacted into a single point. We can only observe a small part of the universe, and even this small part is not totaly homogenous

In this model one important thing is that the space expansion (by the forces inside the universe, the peaks from the big bang, which I described before) will not go on forewer, they will stop in the far future. The "void" or space between expanding universes stays the same. Two neighboring expanding universes edges would always be the same distance from eachother until they expand (if there is nothing between them). But when expansion stops, then the supermassive black holes which remain from the dead universes will: get closer to the edge of an expanding universe by force of its gravity and starts to pull in the mass from it, or merge with another supermassive black holes. The void, the space between the universes doesnt need to expand, only the space inside the universe expands. Once again, try to think about it like the space is a line. A mass is a dip in the line (pulls it down). In the expanding universe this line is pulled up (result of the big bang) between the masses, this comes down slowly (straightens) allowing the space to expand. Between two universes the line is straight (if empty). The lenght of the line between these expanding universes would stay the same lenght. And as I said before, in this model the line (or fabric in 2D) would always stay the same lenght in global scale. It can be pulled down (and then straighten) or pushed up (and then straighten), the total lenght is always the same. In other words: space is an exact ininite, and also in this space energy is an exact infinite. Well, than I dont agree with that, you are right. But in the same way that can also not be proved, like my model so I and anybody alse dont have to accept it. We dont know what happend before or right at the start of the expansion. Once again (I have already explained this before) this is not at all like an explosion. It is a release of energy and space time. It is from a central point but behaves totally different. And if you think that it is not from a singularity (central point) than you can expain it to me how else can it happen?

What I say is; this "void" is not really a void as the meaning of the word. It is the same space like in our universe which is not expanding and could contain some huge black holes from dead and very old universes in it in small scale (closer) and other universes like ours (some younger some the same age, some older) in large scale (further).

What does it contradict?

You are correct, I can not prove that this force exists and I can not prove that there is an outside. Maybe in a few billion years we would be able to prove the force if humanity survives. But probably we will never see what is "outside" even in 10 or 100 billion years, if we survive. My hyphotesis accepts everything in the current model. It just adds to it.

Could you please clarify what you mean by this. Our universe is not a ball nor it is a solid object. It is a random points of objects. And an outside force, like example a large black hole would be next to our universes edge from example 10^12 light years away, has nothing to do with shell theorem as far as I know

"Pulling" from outside is the gravity of the matter (example large black holes) which is from other universes. This is just the way I called it. That is not gravity, it is the force causing the space to expand (behaves like a "negative" or opposite gravity) I don't know the answer on that. That depends on how big is our universe and how big is the observable universe compared to that. If the observable universe is only a small part of the whole universe (which I think it is probably like that) than the difference would be smaller. It also depends on the position of the observable universe. If its on the "edge" of the universe than that force would be bigger than in the middle. Lastly, it depends on the distance and mass of the external matter.