The_Questioner

Now, with all due respect to all: first of, thank you for participating. Otherwise, unless anyone has a question, I would like to end this topic, as I did get an answer to my question: Can't be done. Respecting this as answer, to me, it can be ended here. I will answer all further questions, if any, but I will not actively engage the topic any further. Again, thank you all, this was an interesting experience.

You missed the point of the question, Sir. The original question was: calculate the odds, starting from Big Bang to now, us, being it possible to be just pure luck.

Oh, Bob was the god of rasta!!! I fully agree there with you.

This post was not towards the YOU, an individual, but the human species as whole. And not just the human species, but life here in general, from microbic over plants and animals, to us. Here's what I find to be strange: We consider ourselves to be intellectual beings. We made incredible constructs, transportations, one names it. Yet, when asked to calculate the odds of all being mere coincidence, we come to see, this is impossible...

It is just that that brought this whole post. Indeed, it occurred to me, that the chances of all this, of you and me, and 8 billion others, was astronomically small. Ball of gas turns planet. Comets rain down providing water, and lo and behold: one of them has a microbical spore on board in the form of a simple cell... It dropped at the right time, seemingly, at the right spot even, almost as if making sure this cell was to survive. In my humble opinion: it looks almost providence (this in the NOT religious way!!! So please do not turn this into an " I am trying to change minds!!! It is all but this, in fact, this is personal). Meant to be, guided. IF guided... then WHO or WHY would be the next question, logically... This post should now probably be moved from Applied Maths, as we clearly cannot answer the first post (calculate X), and we moved on into non-maths water? Thoughts?

I almost would agree... if the Big Bang and everything after this event had no impact. But, that it does. No Big Bang, no us. Wouldn't you agree, good Sir? It's almost Chaos Theory... a butterfly flapping etc... . And yet, in ALL that chaos: behold structure, order, LIFE! As if conducting an orchestra.

I love all instruments equally. To me it is about the music, not the instruments. Sir Robert Tiso, Glass Harp genius, here-under, with 2 massive pieces, -Beethoven, Ludwig van - Moonlight Sonata 1st. Mov. Listen to the added deepness... Followed by Ravel, Maurice - Bolero (this time entirely on Glass Harp): Not an instrument used in either, still... But that be me.

Merry Christmas, everyone. May the best life can offer you be on your path, evermore. And then some!!! Happy Holidays! The_Req

Very well, thank you (as to: how are we getting on). Kind of you to ask, sir. Theoretical-Subjective probability, would be my answer. We do not have the means to calculate a true outcome, ALL the data required, nor the openmindedness. I hoped for an approximate, based on our incomplete data and abilities thusfar. It was, for the record, for personal use, not to shove it in someone's face and go like: "See, even Maths yapyapety-yap." Does this answer your question, Sir? Addendum: I will not engaged in the battle between you two, have fun there, you two. Or did you had something else in mind with your question?

(Apologgies, I cut the text a bit, to save space) My initial post is pretty straight forward, I think, sir. But we did digress from main topic, that I admit too. And thus, true, there's a lot of stuff that is unrelated. I admitted to this in the lengthy post. But, sir, though not an excuse, only an explanation, I got there through others, in part... True, there are three meanings to it, you said, sir, to the probabilities. I made a bad line turning that into three probabilities. My mistake. I have issues at times to express myself in the right way. Now, I did not give any values to anything, no data, this because I have no idea as to how to fill this in. I am neither a mathematician nor scientist. I (literally) hoped someone could fill that in, sir. As for outcomes, I cannot give a value, as that, I feel, would influence the outcome, while I wanted a fair one. Unless, I misinterpreted this... Thank you. Very kind of you, sir. Thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it! Kindest regards: The_Req

Thank you for replying, sir. The question was more: how big is the chance that all things considered, this is all just random luck. Therefore, it was not quite about religion per se. Though yes, I DO believe in a higher something, this question was NOT stated from that position, but from a position that sees both outcomes as equally possible or not possible. This "god" does not have to be "God", or something divine-like. As i said, it can be just as well an alien playing Sims. Now, I posted it here, as the question (calculating a percentage), is basically math, and thus this seemed the most logical place. I am no mathematician nor scientist, hence I came here for "the answer", where "the answer" would have been a probability, and not a God-set truth or scientific FACT. I do understand the fundamental truth, that there are a ton of unknowns, therefore an absolute answer is "impossible", however, it could have been a nice approximation, sir. What precisely do you mean with the three probabilities, sir? And this, I reckon, answers your question about my knowledge of these probabilities. Again, good sir, thank you for your post. PS: nearly forgot this part: "Hmm debatable." Where precisely did I make a "breach" into the site CoC/rule set, please?

@ Sir Strange, Moderator: With all due respect, sir Moderator, and I must say, I do not know you, I ONLY react to your responses here, but you seem to be an uptight, narrowminded, biassed and judgemental person. Let me elaborate, please: I came here with a very simple, 2-part question: what is math to you, and please calculate X, where X was the chance of ALL being merely luck. Nothing more. Right? Being 50, I have no fun in childish games like trolling, forcing opinions or ideas on anyone, engaging people with nonsense, ... . Not sure where you surf on the net, and note I am a Netizen (I virtually live in my computer), but I do not see many half-century aged folks do that kind of thing. However, I admit, I can be mistaken, this statement has no scientific value, therefor. Still, I have not met many half-centennials that keep themselves busy trolling and annoying others on forums. I believe that those that do these things as hobbies are mostly Millenials, children or immature, frustrated and bored people. But, I need to admit, here too Icould I be quite wrong, and thus this as well has no scientific value. That aside,I do not agree in your disrespective, patronizing and judgemental reaction to me, sir. I did not deserve this. You told me, can't be done, I accepted that answer, even though I asked to explain why this cannot be calculated. To which I never received a response explaining this impossibility. This was asked, so I could understand the reason why this was impossible to calculate. To learn. What, or so I figured from a logical point of view, a SCIENCE FORUM was all about? Was I wrong to assume this, sir? OH YES, I spoke of what I thought, experienced. But this was "provoked" by other people here, that politely asked/spoke to me me about this. Being polite myself, sir, I thought it was only reasonable, logical, respectful and polite to reply to their interest in my humble point of view, whatever their reason was. MAYBE they were actually genuine interested in my thoughts. And seeing this is a forum, I figured, it was not bad to have a different opinion spoken out, WITHOUT forcing this upon anyone. In the end: science, for part, is discussion, correct, sir? And adults are 'supposed' to have the tact and skill for a respectful discussion, no? Yet, this option is taken by you. As stated, in that regard, sir Moderator, I do not care for religion, sexual preference, colour of skin, language, to me there are only 2 species in the uni-/multiverse, whichever you prefer (and even that stated i could not give a flying fuck about your preference, correct?). But no, you deem me an invader, a pest, a troll, something to be very far away from. Now, again, I do not know you at all, I ONLY react to your responses and the lack there-of in the question as to why it cannot be calculated. But these responses, from a claimed "scientific based person", are all but correct in approach, as I understand science. Science is about OPENMINDEDNESS in ALL MATTER until either PROVEN or DISPROVEN. Is that not so, sir? Now, sure, regious people have not proven a goddamn thing (see what I did here?) to prove anything even remotely, and I completely get and respect this, sir, but SCIENCE HAS FAILED TO DISPROVE IT AS WELL, and I expect YOU to get and respect this, and thus act as such. This simply states that both sides are at an impasse, incapable of proving it either way. And this, from an adult and scientific point of view, SHOULD tell you not to spew conclusion nor bias on the bloody topic? As, from a scientific point, both should be considered STILL EQUALLY POSSIBLE, thus VALID? Think the cat in the box, the sadist Schroedinger (poor cat, he had to get in that box himself)! Both are correct, until observed (thus proven or disproven). Or am I wrong here? If so, please tell me, and support that with proper motivation, in a respectful way. After all, I am here to learn, and thus, if needed, change my point of view on the matter. When i am wrong, I am wrong, and I will act accordingly. Still, you going hard towards my person on my religion based question is FAR OUT OF LINE, good sir. I did not deserve this. As to prove that I am actually not here to "force my opinion" as you see my attempt to gain a maths result and information, later on the topic went to music and Maastricht. This alone states, that I am "not solely here for the religious aspect of the topic", or to troll and annoy all here, as you appear to think, but to get an answer to both questions. The topic was basically closed, however, by you stating 'can't be done'. And i did go into a different discussion, not topic related, this I very much admit!!!!, with, who I consider a nice person, sir BeeCee, who did NOT condemn me on my question, although he stated in honest to me, that he too was unsure of my intention at first. Which, when he explained why, I can understand his prime reaction. Still, the good soul gave me a pass, a change, still. Others too were cautious, but none really got onto my case, thusfar. Heck, i can even unsderstand YOUR thoughts on the matter, just not the way you respond to me. I find it to be, quite frankly, appaling, not suited for a Moderator to react as you did.. I AT LEAST should have had the benefit of the doubt, being NEW here, and not being cast out to be a pariah from the very start onwards, sir. Again, with all due respect, of course. As for: "I don't care about your opinions. This is a science site.": have I forced something upon you? Have I said something to make you say this? I think not, as, as said afore in this very post, all i wrote was "provoked" by third parties. And I replied, polite and respectful. This sentence by itself is damn disrespectful towards my person, and frankly, it gives me the impression that you are (most likely incorrectly, but this I cannot tell, I go by the responses I got so far, and this line in particular) a, and please, excuse me my French here, prick. And if you excuse me now, sir Moderator, I would like to close the religion part with you, and, with your permission, PM with sir BeeCee about music, and answer to the kind people here that did get into a healthy discussion with me on religion and other topics? OH, and BEFORE you accuse me of being patronizing, I use SIR as an expression of RESPECT and POLITENESS, sir, NOT in an attempt to be patronizing. Just for the good record. Kindest regards, Merry Christmas, and may all the best life can ever offer be on your path, evermore (this is to all people here, btw, not just jou, sir Moderator). The_Req. Addendum: please forgive me, sir, for any typo's and/or sentence structure errors, again, English is not my prime language... Also, as stated, bear in mind, as i stated before, I have Aspergers and ADHD (for which I take 200mg Rilatine a day, just to be able to function somewhat 'normally'). If you believe I am out of line, then bear in mind the following FACTS!!!: I was not: -impolite -disrespectful -insulting -judgemental -attacking anyone/anything -forcing an idea -trolling -break ANY rule of the forum I DID however, trail of the original topic a bit, this I formally admit, and I apologize formally for this. Overall, I was quite bloody correct towards everyone and everything, I think, sir. But of course, you DO have the power to ban or suspend me. Or to remove this very post. I just think, it would not be correct. In many ways. But then again, who am I... If you want to discuss this in all respect, politeness and maturity, then I am all yours, good Sir. _Req.

Oh, yes, I FULLY agree with this statement. And yet, as I wrote before, it feels just a bit too orchestrated, too organized, too constructed, to be just stupid luck. I live in Meerhout, Belgium, so quite near Maastricht, indeed. I LOVE Andre Rieu, and James Last, Beethoven, Bach, ... I love 40's up to 90's, I love ethnical music, black and death metal, I am somewhat over the whole planet, music wise. Do you, by accident, know the Gyoto Monks, these throat singing monks from Tibet? MARVELOUS "music". Oh, rest assured, i do not try to place God anywhere. God is, for me, MY thing. If you believe, good. If you don't, just as good to me. I do not care for what you believe, good sir. You see, in MY autistic universe (or if you prefere, multiverse), there are only 2 species in the complete whole that is creation (where creation is not ment in biblical form, but in post-big bang era): The ones I can live with (whether animal, human, alien, whatnot), and those i severely dislike (racists, criminals, ..., the "not nice people" if you like). My black and white existence is sooo simple and cool, one cannot believe... I respect anyone, everyone is my friend, until he/she/it crosses me in one way or another.

Why is it impossible, sir? Precisely, you worded very nicely what I meant, thank you. I believe in a God, yes. Now, let me repeat myself from the first post: I consider myself a free-thinking Catholic. I do not believe that God and the Devil are 2 opposing forces, but that both are one and the same. I do not believe, i CANNOT believe that God is only good, where the 'devil' is only bad. If God is omnipotent, if He is ALL, then surely, evil is His as well. One cannot create what is not in his power. If God was indeed all-good, then evil would never have existed. God created, gave FREE WILL, and a ball for us to do with as we please. Kind of nice, I think. Maybe He enjoys us doing what we do, maybe He created us because he was bored, and he sees us as a game of Sims. I do not know. I do not even know, He exists!!! And i am not even remotely kidding here. BUT! I do NOT DENY it either. I cannot DISPROVE Him. Or Her, it, whatever God, or the Creator is. When I look at the whole existence, I cannot exclude The Creator, because it just fits together all too well. Take Earth. We fly around this glowing ball in JUST the right spot, not oo cold, not too hot. But we do this in an elliptic, egg-shaped traject, not too far of on any side, JUUUUST enough to get seasons. Around us is that other, tiny ball, we call moon. Now that one does make a fairly perfect circle, juuuuust rightly, so that we get eb and flood. Which oxygenizes our seas and such, and thus provides air for water creatures. But in JUUUUUST the right balance, not too much of one, and not to little of the other. Then we got our Earth spinning around it's own axis, which is slightly tilted, not too much to any side, no, juuuust right. Back when Earth had cooled down, and seas were formed, a few comets, accidentally carrying a few simple cells, fall into that uniquely well thought out play of stellar objects. Falling juuuust in the right place with the right speed to not kill these cells off. And for Godknowswhatreason, these cells figure: well, we're bored, lets for up and make plants. And more complex cells, And even more complex cells. And even MORE.... hold on, what do we got here... a... fish? But lets not stop there. Crab, eel, blah blah dinos blah blah ooops, meteor, all dead, but that's OK, we managed to survive, let's start allover.... Dogs, cats, elephant, human... And from a scientific point of view, all having VERY awesomely working organs and whatnot. Juuuuust right. Juuuust perfectly right, all... IMHO, JUUUUUST a BIT too perfect for everything to be just a frikken fluke. Too orchestrated, too constructed, to be just a heap of luck. But, that, well, that is me. And me are not scientist, me are simple people. So me think this idea not suit you. Feel free to have a different opinion, Sir.

Thank you, Sir. Appreciate your reply on the first question. Now, could you be so kind, to do the maths I requested for, from a neutral, and thus unbiassed, point of view? I myself am no mathematician, and have no clue on how to begin on this... Hence i came here.

Thank you for the swift reply: I believe we have a mis-communication: idea is not to calculate the odds of us being here (which by itself has no religious meaning), but the odds that all this that is and this since the Big Bang, is pure luck, and not a creation by X (whom- or whater X may be). As for size, place and type of the sun and our place in the solar system, I consider this to be the 'golden chance' (or 'perfect' considering all could have been quite different, hotter sun, other type sun, the place of Earth in the system, ...). Please note that my primary language is not English, but Dutch, and mistakes from my side in explaining things, or putting things a bit bad or awkward, are a possibility. Greatest importance (in existing form), this had to be. My apologies. And I fully agree, we humans are by all means a pest, we are locusts. Quite damn literally. We are the smartest dumb species on the planet. Our planet would have been much better off without us. As "for my God: did He want this?" That, Sir, is not a fair question!!! He gave us free will, He is not the cause of OUR FAILURES, WE are, sir. Did He want children to die of hunger and thirst? FUCK no. He gave US the option to fix this, but WE chose to be selfish, self-centered and completely uncaring for those suffering. Hell, WE are the ones that rather send poor bastards back to place of origine, because we do not like to share our space with them, for whatever reason. That is US, not God, Sir... With all due respect: I asked a mathematical chance of everything being just pure luck. I did not ask to be mocked with. I do not care, good sir, whether you are gay or not, religious or not, or anything else. I respect you for who you are, and I do not mock you for your ideologies or feelings. Please give me that same courtesy? Thank you.

Greetings: Before anything, I am a 50 year young man with Aspergers and ADHD that considers himself a free-thinking Catholic. This question is in two parts. And my sincere apology for the length of the second one, it might seem like a wall of words, but i saw no other way to properly post it without changing anything in the question's content, interpretation or meaning. 1) First, a personal question, this is to see just how far math and science is related, in your person: "How important is mathematics to you, what place has mathematics to you, and how far does mathematics have an impact on your thinking/accepting?" 2) Here we have the actual math question, the one I warned you about: a) Could you please calculate the odds, percentage-wise preferably, just how big the change is that the universe and everything in it, thus, the universe from Big Bang to this day in age and everything that comes with it, such as the placing of all bodies, the creation of elements, the creation of our solar system, the perfect positioning of Earth in the solar system which has the perfect sun to sustain life (as we know it, for the record), the forming of Earth, the first start of life (that simple single form cell up to the enourmous variety of life (plant, animal, fish, insectoid, ...) through all time periods) on Earth, the complete evolution of life with human origins and evolution as greatest importation in this part, the way ecology systems work and how nature has been able to withstand (albeit FASTLY losing this batttle more and more swiftly) the polution and destruction by human(oid) hands (throughout all eras of humanoid existance), actually random luck is, and thus not created by whom- (be it God, Jahwe, Jehova, Allah, ...)or whatever the "creator" (a god, an intellectual energy form, an alien playing the Sims (I said this alien thing here, to show that I leave it in the actual middle what this creator might be as I have not a single clue, NOT to create a mockery. Also, I said this to make sure, in my own unusual and autistic (Aspergers with ADHD, note) way to not insult anyone in any way.), ...)? Thank you very much.