TheVat

Sigh. Thank you. I relied on a New Yorker article for that grossly wrong figure - a good magazine but you really have to factcheck them these days. Now I'm wondering where on earth the writer got that 11% number from. I wonder if that figure was some subgroup that would make more sense. Will delve further tomorrow.

It's a Frito with a piece of the chip broken off. And then got the F out of there. If there's any genetic predisposition it is likely to be the general tendency to personify, or vivify, unseen forces and inanimate objects - as found in anthropological cross-cultural studies. My personal take is that, as we grow and our parents diminish to mere flawed people, a lot of people are emotionally drawn to finding a big sky-daddy replacement. Otherwise one has to face the frightening prospect that, on planet Earth the lunatics have taken over and are running the asylum.

Western food on average travels farther to shelf, and is more packaged and processed, all of which adds layers of cost. A shopper in rural Uganda goes to market and comes home with a bag of unpackaged root vegetables, leafy greens, fruits, dried legumes and pulses scooped from big bins, etc. There is some depravity in the rates of food wastage tolerated in developed countries - don't get me started on fruit bowls put out just for show, or tossing leftovers - but wastage is also a problem in developing countries that still lack sufficient refrigeration and other means to keep pests out of food. I think a broader argument on whether or not western wealth leads to some forms of depravity (materialism worshipped, or ecologically insupportable McMansions, e.g.) could be another thread. The recent homelessness thread touches on disparities in access to shelter that could probably be called depraved. And may I say that Sandra Bullock, whose lovely smile blazes forth in that YouTube clip, does not strike me as a depraved and obese westerner. She is a classy person and a humanitarian who is known for frequently handing one million dollar checks to various worthy charities and relief efforts.

Everything I've seen so far suggests that the low confidence lab leak theory is being promoted in intelligence reports from intelligence officers, and not papers from epidemiologists or virologists. When you look at all the reports directly from scientists in relevant fields, they all state a much higher probability to the spillover theory. If the media is going to jump to a lab leak theory due to scientists at the DOE weighing in, an agency that runs labs like Livermore and AFAIK no bio labs, that seems like a stretch. And the FBI, while it does in fact have access to a bio lab at Fort Detrick, MD, that's just a unit with specialists in forensic research, and not epidemiology/virology. There is a virology unit at Ft. Detrick, but I don't think it is run by the FBI. It is strange that most of the "breaking news" on this seems to be coming from Right-Wing or RW-leaning media, news outlets that have previously fed a variety of Yellow Peril theories to their subscribers/watchers. For example, when I look at a more neutral news source, like NPR, their stories mention that the vast majority of the scientific community do not see the lab leak theory as supported by evidence and as far lower probability than the spillover theory. This bias in some media seems to have led to a cadre of bloggers and trolls who attack anyone who is dubious about the lab leak theory as "close-minded" and "opposed to science because you won't wait for more evidence." The problem is, the initial outbreak happened in an authoritarian dictatorship, so it seems really unlikely that there will be "more evidence" forthcoming that could either support or negate the lab leak theory. And the fact that spillover from zoonotic reservoirs is common and well-documented means that the Ockham's Razor candidate for strongest theory will likely remain the spillover theory. Nothing will ever be proved beyond a doubt, and that will feed the conspiracy nuts for years.

How does that follow? If I can create a rotten banana, does that mean I can make it fresh again?

I'm the cook in the family, and prefer my own Italian cooking to the restaurants around here, but not due to much skill, more that the Italian dishes we like aren't that difficult if you have olive oil and tomato and cheeses and herbs of good quality. I loved my chemistry lab classes in college and cooking seemed like an extension of that. And there's an inventiveness I enjoy, whereas in a restaurant you just sit and wait and get what you get. And it's really hard to find restaurants that respect what al dente means. Another thing that can be better at home, if you take a little time to learn the technique, is baking bread. There's something about turning a pile of flour and some water into a fragrant loaf.

Because weight loss requires high amounts of exercise, and eating fewer calories (in a higher fiber lower glycemic form). It's unpleasant and difficult, especially if food is a major entertainment for you. Long-term calorie reduction and long-term daily exercise regimes are prone to failure in a mechanized society whose forces of corporate marketing are constantly pushing unhealthy fattening foods as a primary entertainment. And labor saving machines as essential. And some people have their appetite turbocharged past maintenance settings by an imbalance of gut microflora. Caesarian babies are especially prone to this. Also those who've been over-prescribed antibiotics. Gut flora restoration is an area of current research in treating obesity and digestive ailments. Kill your car. Eat rolled oats. Don't use sugar, sweeten lightly with fruits. Etc.

Sometimes the Norway rats are listless and depressed because they're pining for the fjords.

Long list. I was going to say this will be disappointing for the Red Menace crowd, but then realized the fringes will only believe it with more fervor. The government won't tell us the truth about the Russia brain-cooker beams... Thanks. Meant to post link at end. wups.

An update: WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. intelligence agencies cannot link a foreign adversary to any of the incidents associated with so-called “Havana syndrome,” the hundreds of cases of brain injuries and other symptoms reported by American personnel around the world. The findings released Wednesday by U.S. intelligence officials cast doubt on the longstanding suspicions by many people who reported cases that Russia or another country may have been running a global campaign to harass or attack Americans using some form of directed energy. Most of the cases investigated appear to have different causes, from environmental factors to undiagnosed illnesses, said the officials, who say they have not found a single explanation for most or all of the reports. Instead, officials say, there is evidence that foreign countries were not involved. In some cases, the U.S. detected among adversarial governments confusion about the allegations and suspicions that Havana syndrome was an American plot. And investigators found “no credible evidence” that any adversary had obtained a weapon that could cause the reported symptoms or a listening device that might inadvertently injure people.

And the house-flipping craze, turbocharged by various media series, has created yet another get-rich-quick scheme that depends on an ongoing shortage in the housing supply. Which means a lot of houses sitting empty, waiting for investors to renovate and then sit on until they get their target price. Longterm, I suppose we get to be more like other developed countries where more people live in apartments or condominiums, where square footage is less per-person, and where public parks and greens replace the personal yard/garden as the main place to touch dirt. We might also have to move away from wood to cheaper, fast-growing fibers like bamboo, for construction. As the tropics expand, and temperate forests dwindle, this will be inevitable. That preference is not going to go away, for sure. I hate apartment living from the very depths of my soul -- been there, done that. Why do some renters have to be selfish and juvenile barbarians? Were they feral children? Probably a separate thread there. Can't engage my rage monster on that right now. I am glad that some people seem pretty happy with apartment living - often people who don't have hobbies that call for yard space, or a woodworking shop in the cellar, or high decibels. And lack free time to keep up a house. And who have landlords with long sharp fangs, and willing to enforce noise ordinances and other rules.

I don't understand the thread title. Isn't it about chemicals that change color when mixed with water?? Should I start titling all my threads "Paul" ? Copper changes color in water. But it's kind of slow...

Not sure why that phrase, clearly the lightest of remarks, would get a ruler slap from mods, but I didn't see the context. I don't want to admit how old I was before I realized that Charley's Aunt was NOT authored by Oscar Wilde. I will agree that, in some circles, there is a disturbing trend to take the finest-toothed comb to everything someone says in search of tiny particles of offense which will then be amplified a million-fold through context-free repetition and condemnation. I think people on the ideological Left need to own up to the fact that some of their number are engaged in this monumentally self-harming game. What makes it particularly stupid is the apparent blindness to historical context and lack of awareness that to reference an imperfect patch of history (and its locutions) is not to praise it or perpetuate it.

It may help to look at the major trends that capitalism has wrought, which is the move towards automation and the decline in employment among males (who were in large proportion doing many tasks that automation is replacing). Something like 3% of males age 24-54 (the statistical "prime" working period) were unemployed in 1960. It's now 11% or maybe a bit more (I saw those stats a while back). (Women are doing better, with higher rates of college completion and employment) Social science research, from what I've gleaned, has found a lot of these men have given up on work (even people out of work for six months are regarded with suspicion by potential hirers) and log an inordinate amount of screen time - web surfing, video games, porn. My guess is that this segment will develop many psychological problems (and already have, as rising opiate addiction in that cohort indicates), to which society will slowly and painfully respond as premature death rates soar. One response might be of the Charles Reich variety, where a slacker culture develops that is focused on self-realization through creativity, lifelong learning, and spiritual practice. Those who don't work will turn to the arts, or to spiritual communalism, perhaps with some volunteerism in the mix. There will be many tries at easing that basic human hunger for purposeful activity and personal growth - "getting off the couch" will a sort of heroic journey for many currently pinned there in their electronic (or chemical) addictions. For others, there may be a long overdue shift in male thinking about "women's jobs," like nursing, home care, preschool, and primary school teaching, and a healthy shift towards more men in those fields. In any outcome, there will be more people unemployed in the traditional sense, and a possible "greening" as there become creative and spiritual niches for that segment of society. I wonder if anti-capitalist belief systems, like Buddhism, might become more appealing to those who, either through choice or circumstance, will not be on the consumerist treadmill.

Kind of scary that vinyl chloride, when it combusts, releases phosgene as one breakdown product. A gas that was used in trench warfare.

I've seen the Tiny House movement also intersect with the homeless problem, in some locations in the US. Had a friend who was involved with this in its proto phase back in the 80s (he got to meet Jimmy Carter), with the construction of 200 SF cottages (very simple, with plumbing amenities shared in a central bathhouse and commons) - the homeless helped build them and then got to live in them. There were hurdles with building codes (they were simple plywood cabins) and the permitting had to call them potting sheds or similar so they wouldn't run afoul of the UBC (uniform building code). More sophisticated versions of the tiny house cluster are emerging now in a few places, and seem to have the positive effect of "house proud" for the dwellers, with them taking care of their cabins, sprucing them up, planting flowers and gardens, etc. Self-sufficiency, regardless of your country's traditions, seems to be a healing thing for most people. In any case, this movement is a reminder that we don't really need to have 1200-plus SF in order to have a home, and the economics (and carbon footprint) of the tiny houses is quite favorable. Not as favorable as tiny efficiency apartments perhaps, but they do offer people who prefer more autonomy a chance to have their own four walls and look after them. Tha autonomy and freedom is, of course, limited in that most of these communities require newcomers to get clean and not use drugs. Here's an article focusing mainly on a community in Madison, WI - the article acknowledging some of the trade-offs - as when the land is distant from amenities. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/06/1077791467/tiny-homes-big-dreams-how-some-activists-are-reimagining-shelter-for-the-homeles#:~:text=With housing costs rising%2C tiny,Missouri%2C Oregon%2C and beyond. Those familiar with Wisconsin winters will understand the urgent need to get people housed, one way or another.

Been trying to get an answer to this for several pages. If the answer is enforcing nuisance laws (squatting, loitering, excretion) that are not presently enforced, then it does de facto become criminalizing homelessness. If the answer is drug law violations, then you have variation between states and cities, and any proposed rehabilitation facility would have to focus on chemical dependency, and the question of how long an addict would willingly stay if detox is involved. As for violent crime, I can't see how enforcement can really mean diversion from prosecution. Voluntary camps seem not a good fit for people who are a danger to others. The more I try to see the Sunbreak type idea, the less coherent it gets.

I remain unclear on the legal process (sounds sorta like the pretrial diversion often used for at-risk teens), but am willing to explore the possibilities that preserve due process. The court would have to issue a warrant and the homeless person would, on apprehension, have someone (social worker, e.g.) who insures they are understanding the Sunbreak facility is an alternative to prosecution they can choose, that they are only committed to a trial period there (72 hours, say), and that they may then leave with no police record of any kind or threat of further prosecution (unless they re-offend). Also, Sunbreak should be for nonviolent offenders. Violent offenders require a different approach and level of security, and realistically would have to face prosecution if it's a serious offense.

I'm replying to several posts here, concerning taxation. We elect representatives in a democracy on the basis of what they do with tax revenue we pay in. It's generally understood in the social contract that some public benefits are general - i.e. while they don't directly benefit us personally, they help maintain a better social environment - more educated and healthier citizens, safer streets, cleaner food and water, better transit, innovation, jobs with better working conditions, etc. I find it amusing when people suggest in one breath that money towards homeless aid doesn't benefit them, and then in the next breath tell me how awful and dangerous homeless encampments are and how they fear to walk downtown. Now that @Alex_Krycek has somewhat modified his OP plan towards the most benign interpretation of the Sunbreaker system (how this works legally remains of interest, but I'm open to it), it's worth remembering that such systems cost money, so the public will have to see that the general benefit I described above is real and leads to permanent affordable housing and stable life situations. I'm glad others have pointed out how the especially dire housing shortage in USA (something like over 3 million units nationally) is at the core of the problem. And many are what we call "fitness club homeless," out here. They live in vehicles with a camper space or at least a cargo space which fits a bed, pay 25-50$ a month for the cheapest gym membership that gives you a locker, showers, and warm changing room. They tend to use public toilets, or use a bucket inside their camper (like Frances McDormand in "Nomadland") which is discreetly emptied down a storm drain. Such homeless (often employed) are less visible than the encampment homeless, but quite numerous.

Interesting speculation. There was a letter he wrote late in life that seemed to clarify his view of religion, which letter was auctioned in London in 2008 after being in a private collection for over fifty years. (from The Guardian) Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt. In the letter, he states: “The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.” Einstein, who was Jewish and who declined an offer to be the state of Israel’s second president, also rejected the idea that the Jews are God’s favoured people. “For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people...."

And you're smarter than to think I'll just accept that a pretrial diversion (which is what Sunbreak would require) is purely voluntary. No court would accept a jail alternative that someone could just walk away from, without consequence. Mr Walton can spit shine that idea all he wants, but adding formal arrests to the picture then turns the gears of the legal system, which tends to see a diversion from prosecution as a binding agreement. It's seen as risky and expensive to just let someone go and maybe have to later reprocess them and incarcerate them. I have no problem with prosecuting and incarceration of the violent segment you also mentioned. Isn't that already what law enforcement does? Do you have citations for this spectre of muggers and killers prancing around freely while police ignore them? I know your Morley smoking boss doesn't think much about the rule of law, but I know you do, and your idea needs a way to make sure that it's actual lawbreakers who are inside the fence after going through due process.

Tha article appears to contradict itself. First, it says: "It is designed to welcome all homeless persons, each of whom may come and go as they please." So, starting out on a nice 14th Amendment respecting note. Sounds truly empowering and helpful. It then goes on to describe a free shuttle that takes Sunbreakers downtown or wherever. Sweet. Then later there is the implication that Sunbreak will be mandatory if one opts for it as a diversion program instead of jail. All the defecators and loiterers and sleepers outdoors will be rounded up, formally arrested, and then presumably have to stay at Sunbreak if they choose the get out of jail card. Stay. As in: can't leave. So which is it? A voluntary program and you can check out of the Hotel California anytime you like? Or a detention unit with better light and services that will send you back to jail if you decide to leave? If the latter, then the solution proposed, with undoubtedly some features that are better than a county jail, is still a prison camp, and we are still criminalizing the condition of having no home (i.e. no roof, no toilets, no place to sleep but a public venue, etc.). I think these folks need to clarify which program they are envisioning here.

This proposal for Sunbreak Ranch is a voluntary program. In the article, it is stated that residents can come and go as they please. In posting this, I feel you may be conceding the point so many here have made regarding the problems with involuntary camps.

I was making a joke, too. Riffing off yours. Sorry if that was not clear. I have far more support for the fast food detox camps than I do for the homeless camps idea. DISCLAIMER: ALSO A JOKE.

I find it interesting that even great spiritual figures who were formally associated with theism, like the Trappist monk Thomas Merton, seem to avoid the bearded rainmaker. Merton (a truly spiritual person I've long admired) said something like: God is not a being, but rather the process of being. And becoming. There are passages in Merton's books that sound rather Buddhist to me. I have no problem with seeing God in this way, as a sort of foundational essence of conscious being rather than some personal entity, and see no reason it would interfere with doing science. And yes, Einstein seemed Spinozist in his views. There will always be an ontological puzzle at the heart of the universe, something our minds cannot access through science, which in no way diminishes or demeans science. Many scientists I know have this mystical feeling, ranging from deism to panpsychism.