Goude

Torture does not produce the results wanted. It get misinformation and death. Seldom does it produce results. During WWII the allies used friendly Germans to get info from enemy Germans. It was very successful. But most of all torture is immoral, inhumane, stupid, and unnecessary.

Me too. But I guess consciousness has to come in somewhere, so the brain is willing.

Well, I wonder if conscientiousness has anything to do with the brain. If you want to expand the nature of awareness and mind look at this video, if not, it's OK. https://youtu.be/WnoIf2NwaRY

I tend to think spiritual beliefs are different from religious beliefs. I quit religion and church as a young man because it scared me and was not logical. Then at the age of 49 I experienced a heart attack with what I learned was a near death experience. It opened up a new look at myself and the world as spiritual. I am thinking there is a "separate intelligent energy" that controls the brain and continues to live after the death of the brain and body. It is probable that this is true.

Poetry is the common art of thinkers. I Am I don’t know from whence I came, nor how this Universe began. I care not play the guessing game, pretending wiser than, I am. Some theorize it’s all just fate, while others a divine plan. But I am not convinced, at date, that either way will stand. I can’t say whether I’m heaven sent, or a peg on the wheel of doom. But I am certainly not an accident, Nor will I live a life of gloom. Wake up everyone and enjoy. Awakening Gloomy clouds of desperation billow through a bungled past. Failed probabilities mangled from a question left unasked. Guilt straddles the back of heroes, distraught over what might have been. Anxiety contorts the soul, what was, will never be again. Hiding deep within the darkness, cloaked with eons of denial. A glimmer of serenity whispers, madness is not final. The grim prevailing ambiance is not what it appears to be, within it exists wisdom that validates immortality. What seems solid is but vapor swirling about an Honesty. A light long dimmed by fearfulness and beaded with apostasy. Press bravely through the inner mist. Reclaim a wisdom known before. Light of unconditional love, resides within you ever more.

I have two serious answers for you: To gain wisdom through knowledge of ourselves and our environment. Grow spiritually learning compassion through knowledge of ourselves and others. I added a spiritual reason because I think we are only beginning the journey here. It will continue through eternity.

Thanks for the explanation, and I agree. To some spiritual people God is the sum total of all existence. God is everything. Not quite sure of that either.

I have no idea what "God of the gaps" means. I almost laughed at "disturbed bodily multi-sensory integration." Reminds me of my Navy days. Things that say nothing but sound important. Perhaps something sweet. Home Again Lush beauty everywhere abounds, the smell of Jasmine all around. Breathe deeply the pristine air, drink pure water bubbling there. Let go the stress of dismal years, nothing here to harm, dry the tears. Enjoy this place where you are known, warm greetings welcome you back home.

I wonder why others think they know my motives. I don't care if you agree with me or not. There is no meaningful discussion if you do. I don't believe in supernatural things, just natural things yet to be discovered. Well, If you would like there are surgeons that disagree with you. It is not important whether we believe or not. What is important is what is.

I was hoping we could have a friendly discussion. I do agree with you that science changes as new discovers are made. I also like science and follow it closely. It has help make our lives better in many areas. I also agree that my NDE is totally subjective. But there are others that are not. Some have been verified by doctors in attendance when it happened. I will not go further now, the environment seems a little tense. But if someone is interested we can discuss some verified NDEs.

That's because God is the Cat.

Just in case someone may be interested, I found a video on the Savant piano player on my previous post. https://boingboing.net/2013/10/21/leslie-lemke-blind-savant-pi.html

Suicide has many considerations. Usually friends, and family are devastated by a suicide in the family. Some has called suicide the most selfish thing one can do. There are considerations of health, pain, and mental problems that could cause a suicide. I heard suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I know religion has driven some to suicide. Devils, demons, and eternal hell being the cause. Then there is the legal part of it. It is a complicated question. It is a unique question for the individual considering it. I have talked to many of those wanting to take their own lives, and as expected, some didn't and some did. Counseling is a necessary part of considering suicide. The best way to help IMHO is to educate, there is more to this world than we can know. The following quote is from “Emmanuel’s Book II, The Choice for Love,” compiled by Pat Rodegast and Judith Stanton. I want to remind you that those who commit suicide recognize immediately the futility of what they believed was the final act of self-destruction and escape. They gather quickly all the details of what happened. Then the wisdom and love that is there instructs, directs, and sends them back to the planet. The longing for death can, when it comes from remembering, be a voice from Home. When it comes from a desire to escape then I’m afraid it’s only that.

Kinda expected.I was really hoping for an answer of some kind. Maybe we can start a thread on this? It is very important and I am always kind.

I am not a stranger to knowledge of brain functioning, I find it interesting what science has Learned. No, I don't imagine or fantasize about the spiritual happenings in my life. My Near Death Experience due to a heart attack started it, and it has never really stopped. I love to study brain anomalies, which can be explained by spiritual means , but I would like to hear the scientific explanation of the Savant Syndrome. "The skills of the savant may vary from being exceptionally gifted in music or in mathematics, or having a photographic memory. Most often, the savant is a person who suffers from extreme autism and cannot reach out to other people in a normal way." I remember reading about a young man adopted by an older couple because they were not allowed to adopt a normal child due to their age. They woke up one morning by beautiful piano music played by their mentally challenged son. He could play the classics without missing a note. The adoption agency said he had never seen a piano his whole life. He had been in their care since a very small child. I also know about Neu­rode­vel­opmen­tal disorders which do not explain how the skill was learned.

One can come up with 100 reasons why a particular event happened, but in honesty they are all guesses. I do believe in a Creator and a spirit world because I have experienced these things many times in my life. I don't believe in the teachings of the church or any religion. It is far more logical and different, I don't understand anyone's problem with it.

Is there a place in the brain for politics sports, etc., etc. I don't believe that study is valid\. No one will find any data stored in the brain. The brain is merely an interface between spirit and body, nothing more.

This is one of those unknowable events to some and understandable to others. My father-in-law was at the end of his life in the hospital. He was comatose and expected to pass. My family was there with him. I had been up all night, so my wife asked me to go home and rest. They would call me if needed. I was asleep on the couch when awakened by my father-in-law's voice calling my name. When I sat up he said "Goude, it is time for you to go back to the hospital." I heard it clear and it was his voice. About 10-15 minutes later the phone rang explaining he had passed and I was to return to the hospital. Now was this event supernatural or just unexplained? If there is indeed life after death, it would be unexplained, not supernatural. Until we have the knowledge of an existence or no existence it is just unexplained. Some will try to say it was just a dream or brain issue all within myself, if so then it just must be unexplained not supernatural. The word supernatural indicates a belief in something beyond our natural world. Maybe a spiritual world? Our language is full of words pointing to something beyond our physical world. Supernatural is one of them. But if you don't believe in God, or other spiritual phenomenon why use them? ,

Supernatural is just a word to pin on unexplained events, nothing more. We will never be able to explain everything in the Universe, so there must be supernatural events.

Sorry about the failed post. I was going to bring up the Savant Syndrome.

When a person's heart stops and brain activity ceases what you have is a dead body. Dr. Moody chose the name near death experience. More accurate would have been Limited Death Experience. Pam Reynolds body was clinically dead for one hour during surgery. Yes, she and other experiencers were actually dead. The info gathered from NDEs is positive . If science chooses to ignore the NDE they will have to prove the brain is where the personality resides. Something that will be impossible. I think we can learn from anomalies that people are not born with a blank brains.

I don't believe there is anything supernatural in life. Just things we don't understand or don't have a reason for happening. There are alternate explanations to any event. All I can tell you is that NDEs happen when dead people still see and hear what is going on around their dead bodies. When they return to life this information is verified by people that were alive around their dead bodies. If it were any less there would not be hundreds of websites, thousands of experiences, and millions of experiencers on the Internet. It would just not be news. Over the years I have learned much about belief systems and people. I know people believe what they want to believe even if it makes them unhappy and depressed. There is a website that claims to be scientific run by people that have not experienced NDEs. It is called "IANDS." The "International Association of Near Death Studies." They might be more helpful, I personally rather read the writings of those who have experienced. I have researched and studied NDEs for over 30 years, reading hundreds of books. I was somewhat skeptical when it happen to me, but since then I have enjoyed many more spiritual events. I am not skeptical now. I give you this information in good faith to do with as you wish.

I don't think you understood. The patient saw the Doctor using a special tool while she was clinically dead. The Doctor verified what she saw and that she was clinically dead at the time. Its all in the video. In one experience the patient died and the nurse in her hurry to get equipment knocked over a stool. When the patient was revived he said he saw her kick the stool over to her surprise.

Because what they see the Doctor do can, and is, verified by the Doctor. This is done in many experiences. Pam Reynolds' doctor went public with the information on Television. Can't tell you the time or name of the show, but I do remember watching it. The experience has been verified by many medical professionals. Why scientists think it is all subjective I don't know. But even if subjective it offers hope and gives meaning to life. I think this is not going to be understood. The fear of change is just too strong.