Wizard22

If you knew your meaning of life, then I believe you would have demonstrated such knowledge earlier in this thread. Since you have not, I can only presume you are implying more than you let on. Furthermore, you were wrong when you accused my Meaning of Life as nihilistic. That proved to me that you weren't paying attention to what I was saying, and the course of this discussion, as well as the "arguments" within it. My "Meaning of Life" must have something in common with yours, yours with mine, and all other Life. That's the key. Life is a force greater than oneself. Since you are the last participant in this thread, I will reply as long as you like, but I think you have more to learn from me than me from you, at this point.

An argument takes two sides. It seems that you are the only one remaining interested in this thread and the Meaning of Life. Do you have any questions, or answers, remaining?

If Meaning is external, then how do you know it doesn't originate from those sources you just said? I mean, you're presuming quite a lot, right there.

My response on Online Philosophy Club Forum: If Objective Reality were not accessible then it wouldn't be "Real". I think rationality, logic, and deduction are used to access Objective Reality. Existence exists, beyond human knowledge. Existence doesn't require you or I, to exist. If you fall asleep, the universe doesn't disappear with your unconsciousness. That said, It's pretty obvious that people are holding back what they really believe about the Meaning of Life when they say "The Meaning of Life, is to live" or "the meaning of a dog, is a dog". You can do better than stating the obvious. If you want to be honest, and say you don't know, then go right ahead. At least it's honest. Many people presume to know, but have doubts about what they believe. Religious people are more convinced, about their Meaning of Life, which they believe comes from God. At the very least, with them, with the religious fundamentalist, they can give concise, relatively clear answers, by compared to what we see in this thread. Maybe non-religious people don't know the Meaning of Life. Maybe non-religious people don't have a Meaning of Life. Maybe, being non-religious, your life literally, phystically, spiritually, has NO MEANING. I'm open to that probability. In fact, I take people at their word. Many people, simply do NOT have a meaning of life. Their lives are meaningless. They are Nihilists. They don't believe in meaning, at all, in the first place. Maybe that's what we're working with, here?

Because most people find their Meaning of Life in love and family, sex and reproduction, then it's significant and a standard of the conversation. Surely, some individuals find Meaning outside of reproduction, but how and why? Some men are remembered for great and exceptional deeds, throughout history. History is defined by these exceptions. People are inspired by that (Meaning). Thus, Meaning is directly linked to Inspiration. A Meaningful life, is an Inspired life, is it not?

Kittens and Puppies do not need to be taught how to play. They do so naturally, among their litter mates, without instruction. There are many Meanings of Life, if you ask around, philosophically. Some people find meaning in Art. Some people find meaning in Science. Some people find meaning in Sport. Some people find meaning in Work. Most people find meaning in Love and Family. Are you unaware of all this, or just playing with me here? You've found no meaning in any of these before?

Many mammals do not need to be "taught" how to play with kin. Some of it is instinctual. Implication is not good enough here, demonstrate what you mean by 'piety' then... "The Meaning of Life, is Life" this answer isn't going to cut it. I believe most will agree on this. Surviving is implicit in Life. What it means to Live, also is what it means to Survive. So we're not really questioning any Meaning/Value/Purpose here. What does it mean Objectively? Well Biology is the objective study of Life per se; but 'Meaning' is something different and falls into the realm of Philosophy. Can Science study "Meaning"? Perhaps. If anybody wants to look at the 'value' of Life, scientifically and empirically, then all you need to do is observe and study how some organisms fight to survive, while others tend to rollover and die. Why do some organisms and species fight hard, to survive, but not others? Why are some organisms smarter than others, or more evolved? Or, try this one out—why do higher intelligence and evolution imply a 'Meaning' to life, let alone "more" Meaning than others? I can get as complex as anybody wants to—but you need to Want it. Few people question Meaning of Life; Fewer still answer it.

I believe Religion is dependent upon natural Morality, not the other way around. People cooperate and help each-other, because it is in their genetic and tribal interests to do so. Religion is a proxy for Imperialism. It is the necessary enforcement of a dominant political faction, OVER the authority of human tribes. Thus those tribes are subjugated in the service of that religion, and must repeat its Dogma as a virtue-signal.

Just because Religion can be wrong, false, and lie, doesn't mean it's absolute. Many people do find their Meaning in Life through religion, and perhaps, rightly so. Like most institutions, at least there is some small wisdom and meaning to derive from it.

How did I dismiss the role of religion? Religion does give most people, most of the 'Meaning' of their lives, historically. Is it not Subjective though, and that it is open to debate? It is a very powerful statement that a religious person makes that "God gives me Meaning in Life". I'm not making that claim, but, how will you address it?

Response to Sy Borg (opc forum) I advocate for an Objective analysis of Meaning of Life. Life is Biological. If a man's life is meaningful, then so too is an animal's, so too is a dog's, an alligator's, a zebra's, a turtle's, etc. Subjectivity is a main problem, addressing this question. A Nihilist believes, "because *MY* life has no meaning, then nobody else's has meaning either" or worse, that "all life has no meaning!!!" So Meaning of Life should not be judged according to the absolute Negative, to Annihilation. Why does the Nihilist make such a big fuss? Because s/he is completely Demoralized, Hopeless, Directionless, without a Goal, without a Purpose, etc. Yet, Nihilism is important in the sense, that sometimes you need to stare into Darkness, before you seek-out the Light, so-to-speak. After you see the Meaning in nothingness, then you can begin to appreciate the Meaning in everythingness. The Meaning of Life can be answered more pragmatically too... some great men in human history have led millions of other men, whole nations, to Victory. Sometimes this means war, take it for what you will. Great thinkers, scientists, philosophers...great athletes, these ones are most convincing about a "Meaning of Life", or worthwhile Purpose. Most of humanity aspires to greatness, to Heroes and Legends. Why is Alexander the Great heralded for so many millenniums beyond his death? How about Jesus Christ? Plato? Take your pick. On the contrary, I believe that Life is overflowing with Meaning. This is exactly the opposite of a Nihilist. Interesting that you would accuse me of the opposite?

Can you explain how he or I am wrong? As to False Meaning and Lies, the meaning of such a life is invalidated and undone by a lifetime of actions motivated by false purposes. For example, you convince a soldier to go to war. And the war is justified on false grounds. That soldier, thought he was doing something Good or Just, but then realizes, it was neither Good nor Just. Such a conflict of meaning can be, and often is, devastating for people who experience such. You do realize that things like this happens in life, and throughout human history, right? And that any temporary Meaning derived from lies and falsity, evaporates? Doesn't this lead that same individual to Nihliism, and belief in Meaningless ideology? Does this not account for why many people are so Demoralized that they do believe "Life is Meaningless"? Do you relate with this?

If you read what mistermack wrote, he said that Meaning is found in the relationship between Observer and Event. A limitation on the senses (Observation), is likewise a limitation on the Meaning (relationship/interpretation between Observer and Event). Does that make sense now?

I did read it, thank you for the link. I don't know about this. People interpret information through the Senses. Realism corresponds to how accurate the Sense and information/data is. For example, if somebody were deaf or blind, senses malfunctioning or erroneous, then this would easily lead to injury or fatality. So interpretation is very important. Imagination goes beyond. Imagine refers to Hypothetical and Theoretical situations. You don't have to stand in front of a car, let it hit you, to know how dangerous and injurious it is. You can imagine the danger, threat, injury, and pain. Alternatively, a malfunctioning imagination might lead a person to believe that he is Stronger than a car. Or that the Driver will stop or swerve. So a faulty imagination is just as dangerous, if not more, than faulty Senses. This can apply to Meaning in the context of False-Meaning. People can live their lives around a religion, for example, and it turns out that some of their beliefs, or worse a majority, are False or Lies. Then their "Meaning" in Life was also False and Lies. So we need to account for all this.

It means you'll need to work on your Chef skills. That's the thing about Meaning...it cannot be only Subjective, as-if you or I can reduce Meaning to our own selves and then use that as evidence or proof as to Life in general. What does Life in general have in common? What is the common meaning? To address the 'Anthropic' principle, and fallacy, any "Meaning of Life" needs to accept and recognize All life, past and present. So...which actions or values are meaningful than others? And doesn't Life recognize values "Higher" or more valuable beyond one's own? Can a collective organization, a tribe, a clan, a nation for example, have a collectivized Meaning?