zking786

How would you rate the following compounds' released energy upon combustion (the use would be in an automobile engine). 1. H2 and O2 2. COH2 3. Gasoline I'm trying to see how a carbon-based electrolysis system (which produces COH2) would compare to the other fuels. Is it comperable, more powerful, or less? I would think less because the two hydrogens aren't bonded together. Then again, I am a fairly basic chemistry student. Someone told me that combustion in an internal combustion engine requires three elements: oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon. Is this true?

I forgot to mention, that! It is an electrolyte NOT water. The metal alloy, if you research, acts as a catalyst and somehow (I think) reacts with the oxygen in the water so as to allow only hydrogen to be liberated. That's about all I know. Why would they use an electrolyte?

Oops! I missed your question... you want to take the limit of (F(x+deltaX)-F(x))/deltaX as deltaX approaches 0

Here's a long shot: y is a function of x (for every x value, there is only one y-value). Because an equation y=.... doesn't have to be a function, it can have multiple y-values for a single x-value. Clarifying y=f(x) makes us certain that y is a function. Is this what you mean?

Just curious, why would oxygen production relate to heat. I'm a beginning chemistry student, so please keep it basic . Also, I think the solution you suggested (producing only hydrogen) is a better idea, so lets go with that.

The website I posted only discusses hydrogen being produced; however, I think that since he is injecting it directly into a carburator it must be a mixture of both hydrogen and oxygen. If it produces both, it must not generate too much heat (we don't want a premature explosion!).

I saw a website where a guy run his engine off of hydrogen he used a "metal alloy" which is extremely inexpensive (4hrs of running a generator will cost about $0.005 CAD!). Here is a link, you can see for yourself:http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/watercar/waterenginehq.ram . I'm trying to create a simillar setup, but need to find out what his alloy is (he doesn't want to divulge its name). Anyone know of an alloy or an ellement that is this inexpensive and will produce as large quantities of hydrogen as seen in the video?

I was wondering whether there are any chemists who can help me find an alloy which will decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen at a rapid rate. I have very limited chemistry knowledge and any assistance or knowledge you can provide me with will be greatly appreciated. I have been told Zinc would work. But is this inexpensive and what rate of hydrogen production is expected. I was told that there is an inexpensive alloy which can act as a catalyst and rapidly split water (no one wants to divulge the name!). Anyone have any ideas?

I have a technical question about the alternator and the battery charge. When you strart up your vehicle on a low battery, eventually the battery will reach full charge. The charge generated by the alternator recharges the battery. When you have a full battery, however, what happens to the charge that the alternator produces. Is it simply pumped into the fully charged battery or where does it go? Seems like a tremendous inefficiency because performance doesn't seem to be influenced much by battery charge. In all situations, the alternator cranks out charge (irrespective of battery charge and applicance energy draw). Would appreciate it if someone with more experience or more automotive knowledge would check my conclusions. I have very limited knowledge in this area and would appreciate any assistance you guys can provide. Thanks!

Firstly, I know very little about electricity. So, if I understand you correctly, I need to minimize power to minimize impedance. But minimizing power decreases the amount of hydrogen produced. Is there a way to have low "electrical impedance" while increasing current and maintaining 12V?

Is a heated container along with hot electrodes and water common in electrolysis? Should the water get really hot (boiling). If so, why does this happen?

I doubt the pressure will be high. Because I'm electrolyzing the water with 12 volts, 15amps I don't suspect that I will have a very high pressure of hydrogen. In fact, I wouldn't want to keep the hydrogen under any pressure. I would want any hydrogen produced to travel up the line and into the intake. Because only small amounts of hydrogen are produced, regulating the pressure will probably not be necessary. Is that what you mean?

Worst comes to worst, the vehicle will knock if the computer doesn't adjust. I think that the vehicle has a feedback mechanism which detects the knocking of the engine and would correct it. For example, when you put high octane fuel into a vehicle, it doesn't knock because it adjusts for air. I'll try to do some more research to confirm this. I had some questions for YT2095. I will be using a one-way valve to prevent the hydrogen from going back to the container in the event of a backfire. I was wondering what a "MAPP gas regulator" is. Would appreciate clarification.

If I'm not mistaken, it should result in a consistant octane rating (if not a higher one). What is your rationale? Since hydrogen is far more combustable than gasoline, minute quantities should eliminate the need for larger quantities of fuel. Since the vehicle's computer is programmed to try to maintain constant conditions (richness vs. leanness mixtures) it should decrease the amount of fuel. I don't understand why you would think that the octane would reduce. Wouldn't hydrogen be a higher octane fuel than gasoline anyway? I will be inserting the H2 line into a nonvaccum line of the intake (where the air goes before combustion) if possible. If there is not a significant enough rising force of the hydrogen, I will need to create a small vaccum to suck the hydrogen in. I don't think it would destroy my engine; however, there is a possibility. The only possible problem that I can see arising is an overheating engine. Because hydrogen burns at a temperature much higher than gasoline, the result is a hotter engine. Since only small amounts of hydrogen are being used, I doubt there will be a noticable temperature difference. Since I will be inserting only hydrogen (not oxygen and hydrogen as was previously planned) I doubt that combustion will occur before the hydrogen gets to the engine. The hydrogen will be mixed with air in the intake manifold and then injected into the cylinder, where it will be combusted. I don't see any major problems. Now to get all the equipment! Any ideas as to what to use?

The computer of the vehicle will alter the vehicle's fuel consumption. Seeing that the vehicle will be running an overly rich mixture, the computer of the vehicle will decrease the amount of gasoline, resulting in increased efficiency.

Only supplement, not power. Once the alternator has charged a battery, the power it generates is being put to waste. This serves as an effective usage for the remaining energy. I'm only looking to gain about 5mpg (from 20mpg). Also, while hydrogen burns at a temperature much higher than fuel, in minute quantities it should not harm a normal gas-burning combustion engine.

I will be supplementing the vehicle with hydrogen as a fuel. Since the fuel will still be used in the vehicle, I'm hoping to decrease the amt of gasoline (as the minute amounts of hydrogen should replace larger amounts of fuel). The result should be consistant performance and lower mileage.

Here is the revised apparatus

I will be changing the setup. I think I'll use 2 electrodes, one pos and one neg. I'll connect them to the ground of the unit (not the lid). That way, I can place separate lines above the electrodes and get a consistant, separated, and safe supply of each gas. The only concern is sucking the hydrogen in with some sort of vacuum ~ I would also get the water with it. Do you think the hydrogen will travel through a relatively horizontal nonvacuum line 3ft?

ok, what about the pressure issue? "In another post, someone mentioned blowing up a balloon with hydrogen and oxygen. While both gasses rise, will they both rise and travel beyond the container through the hole? How were they able to inflate a balloon? Wouldn't they need to pump the gasses into the balloon or am I missing something?"

But if the container is closed tightly, with only one vent at the top, spark cannot enter. Earlier, you mentioned heat can cause an explosion. What do you mean? Wouldn't the heat have to become spark; or can it ignite without the spark? Is there a way to separate the H2 and O2 after their ionic states (when hydrogen is no longer H+). In another post, someone mentioned blowing up a balloon with hydrogen and oxygen. While both gasses rise, will they both rise and travel beyond the container through the hole? How were they able to inflate a balloon? Wouldn't they need to pump the gasses into the balloon or am I missing something?

here are some pictures hydrogen pics.doc

I have a vaccum line at the top, so it's not completely sealed off.

I'd probably want something that would react with the oxygen and sink to the bottom. That would be perfect! But what would do that! In response to the previous response, I know what you mean, but that would require redesigning the electrolysis apparatus. It's currently built so that the electrodes are positive and the stainless steel container is grounded. The electrodes hang from a stainless steel cap at the top which also holds an outlet for the gas to be transfered into a vacuum line of the engine. I assume that the hydrogen is attracted to the sides of the container, while the oxygen is attracted to the electrodes. In the end, however, the gasses all rise to the top of the container. I need to find a way to pressurize them out (even if both H2 and O2 go together) without sucking out the water. I also need to figure out a way to suck those gasses out without diluting the mixture with more air coming in due to the low pressure. If I have a small hole at the top of the container, air will come in substituting for the gas that was sucked out by the vacuum, but this will dilute the mixture. Hope you guys understand my dilemma. Any remedies?

Once I have performed electrolysis in a container, I have both O2 and H2 dormant in the electrolysis container. I'm trying to find a way of both separating the two gasses (no longer ions) and presurizing them out of the chamber later to be forced into the intake of a vehicle. Anyone have any ideas for doing the two described processes (separating and pressurizing the gasses). If I put them into a vacuum line, then air is sucked into the electrolysis chamber (due to the negative pressure created by sucking the H2 and O2 gasses out). The air sucked in dilutes my pure mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen, further complicating matters. Ideally, I would like to speparate both the hydrogen and oxygen produced and only inject the hydrogen into the intake. Any ideas?